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Old 29-Aug-2015, 4:53 PM   #1
Fool82
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Join Date: Oct 2014
Location: Fond Du Lac,WI
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Advice for a Fool who installed an antenna aray without help

Hi.
My TVFool Report http://www.tvfool.com/?option=com_wr...8e036a7c316164

I've been an cord cutter for over 2 years now. Over a year an half ago,I purchased a Clearstream 2 and J-arm without any advice from tvfool userrs over on Amazon.com. I did not know at the time,my local Fox station was VHF and learned the Clearstream 2 would not receive it. I ended up purchasing a Clearstream 5 directly from Antenas Direct when they determined the add-on wasn't powerful enough to receive that station.

So with the help of a friend,I installed my purchased Clearstream 2 and Clearstream 5 on the modified J-arm (I added 4.5 feet of 1.5" Electrical conduit and spray painted grill black) on the south eave of my house. I precision aimed the Clear Stream 2 as best I could. I unfortunately broke the coax connection on my ClearStream 5 while precision aiming it on a later day last fall. Instead of replacing it,I disassembled it and re-soldered the coax back on.I've had to fix it twice now. If you study the photos,you'll notice I used part of a pill bottle to prevent the coax from breaking again as I figured the coax flexing in the weather was why it failed toward the end of last winter.

Clearstream 5 Repaired https://goo.gl/photos/h7SFqh4XAuk71qZt7

My Antenna Array on South Eave
https://goo.gl/photos/gyQtBLMTVWWFug4i6

Photos from the ground
https://goo.gl/photos/aPu7bLxnRS3nQ5F66

It has now been close to 4 months now and my antennas seem to be working okay. My frustration is I have never been able to reliably receive my local Green Bay,WI CW station.In fact as of this month,I can't even receive it at all as I'm only getting 30% signal from it no matter the time of day. Any shows I wish to watch on it I've had to depend on Hulu to watch as I can never get a reliable signal from it.

To improve signal, I have used a 4 way RCA distribution amp as a preamp was not helping my signal reception at all. Using my Silicondust HDHomerun as a judgement on signal strength. My CBS station is the most powerful at 100% signal strength(Obviously the distribution amp messing with the result) And my CW station is the weakest at 30%. My confusion with the CW station so weak, is why my WACY station comes in at 68% reliably even in the day time when it should be just as weak.

If anyone studies my antenna array installed, you'll probably see concerns about being to close to my roof. I'm open to suggestions on what I can do to improve my setup. I'm open to replacing the J-arm with an eave-mount. I'm in need of a new roof and have no intention of installing a tripod on my roof.

As an alternate antenna, I did purchase and have available an Antenacraft HBU33.It's currently sitting in my garage unused.I have not used a rotor in an attempt to receive all stations in my area. I'm content with only receiving my Green Bay,WI stations. But I'm open to suggestions with the antennas I have to receive my Milwaukee,WI stations available as well.

http://www.solidsignal.com/pview.asp?p=HBU33

So in summary, I'm open to feedback what I should change to improve what I have setup so far before winter sets in and I'm prevented from doing anything until next spring.I admit I messed up not registering and asking these questions before ever buying an antenna from Amazon. Any feedback(hopefully not harshly negative) would be appreciated.
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Old 29-Aug-2015, 7:10 PM   #2
rabbit73
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Welcome to the forum, Fool82:

I think you are being too hard on yourself. You have done a better than average job on research and installation than the average newbie, and have had the good sense to come here.

Thanks for the report and excellent photos. We will study them and give you our advice.

I see 2 ground wires going down to the ground from the grounding block. Are they connected to a grounding rod there, or to the house electrical system ground?

I see a coil of extra coax hanging from the ceiling. It looks like you hated to cut it shorter. The signal loss of RG6 is about 6 dB per 100 ft for UHF. It wouldn't be as critical if there was a preamp at the antenna.

That is a clever repair; the pill bottle acts as a strain relief. I always wondered what it looked like inside the housing. The balun looks like a 1:1 ferrite core transformer. Maybe ADTech can confirm that. Antennas Direct is very good about replacement parts; maybe they will send you one if needed.

Quote:
To improve signal, I have used a 4 way RCA distribution amp as a preamp was not helping my signal reception at all.
I think you need a preamp at the antenna first before adding a distribution amp. It will improve the system noise figure and make the signals stronger before the coax downlead loss.

I doubt that the RCA distribution amp has a Noise Figure (NF) that is as good as a preamp.

Quote:
My frustration is I have never been able to reliably receive my local Green Bay,WI CW station.
Quote:
My CBS station is the most powerful at 100% signal strength(Obviously the distribution amp messing with the result) And my CW station is the weakest at 30%. My confusion with the CW station so weak, is why my WACY station comes in at 68% reliably even in the day time when it should be just as weak.
What direction is the aim for your antennas? If it is on the south eave, it appears to be correct for Green Bay, but I need confirmation.

WCWF CW Green Bay real channel 21, virtual channel 14.1, is at 34 degrees magnetic. WACY is in the same general direction, but not the same location. They are both 1Edge signals, so there could be terrain differences.

Quote:Originally Posted by replayrob
Quote:
Oh, and I'm fully aware of the effects of signal strength on digital channels... I felt it was important to note that the signal strength during my recordings were in their normal range which had previously produced excellent results from CBS-DT NY. I was just trying to avoid the prerequisite "how was your signal strength?" posts....
reply by DTVintermods
Quote:
Signal strength is not indicative of picture quality unless you know that the channel is free of noise and multipath. And a clean spectrum as seen on a SA (spectrum analyzer) is not an indicator of clean channel because the phase distortion (group delay) is missing. So even though channel 5 is also on the ESB (at a different height), what comes into your TIVO on channel 5 may not necessarily include the same multipath and noise that is on WCBS channel 2.
http://www.avsforum.com/forum/45-loc...l#post21477306



If a preamp with the AD antennas doesn't give you enough gain, then you must upgrade to a VHF/UHF combo antenna with more gain.

I hope there are no trees or other buildings in the signal path.

The HBU33 has approx. the same gain as your two AD antennas, but in one package. You could mount it (with a preamp) facing Milwaukeen and use an A/B switch to select which antenna you want to avoid a rotator.
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Last edited by rabbit73; 1-Sep-2015 at 11:13 PM.
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Old 30-Aug-2015, 12:27 AM   #3
rabbit73
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I did two FMFOOL reports to see if there might be any strong FM signals that might interfere with TV reception. It might be a good idea to insert an FM trap/filter between the antenna and the tuner. Some preamps have an FM filter.

One report is based on the short coordinates of you tvfool report. The other (est2) is based on my estimate of your location near E Johnson St (23) about 2 blocks SE of the All About Life Rehab Center. See attachments 1 and 2.

FM reports don't link like TV reports, so an image is used.

You can do your own using your exact address or coordinates here:
http://www.fmfool.com/index.php?opti...pper&Itemid=29

Quote:
In fact as of this month,I can't even receive it at all as I'm only getting 30% signal from it no matter the time of day.
When I read that at this time of year, I think of trees growing into the signal path. See attachment 3.

When aiming an antenna I first do it for max signal. Then I monitor signal quality as defined by SNR and errors to optimize aim. They aren't always at the same azimuth.
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File Type: jpg Fool82TVF FM est1.JPG (104.6 KB, 372 views)
File Type: jpg Fool82TVF FM est2.JPG (104.6 KB, 380 views)
File Type: jpg Trees and UHF2.JPG (101.4 KB, 375 views)
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Last edited by rabbit73; 30-Aug-2015 at 12:45 AM.
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Old 30-Aug-2015, 7:12 PM   #4
Tower Guy
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I think that your choice of antennas is good as is your mounting location. I agree with rabbit that you need a preamp. I'd assume that the one that you tried was overloaded by FM, had too much gain, was faulty, or was installed wrong. I'd try a TVPRAMP-1R with the FM Trap on. You could also try an external FM trap between the VHF antenna and the VHF input of the preamp.
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Old 31-Aug-2015, 5:23 PM   #5
Fool82
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Thanks for the replies

Hi,I thank everyone for replying.

Haven't figured out how to use the previous comment feature so bear with me.

Rabbit73 I see 2 ground wires going down to the ground from the grounding block. Are they connected to a grounding rod there, or to the house electrical system ground?

Fool82Correct, there are 2 ground wires.One from the antenna j-arm with a ground wire on the coax. And a much larger copper wire from the ground block into a stand alone ground rod. People have previously told me I have a ground loop situation. It's not practical or affordable to dig and run a large gauge copper wire from my electrical panel ground rod to this ground rod. Also most Home Insurance companies recommend to not bond an antenna ground rod to the elecrical panel ground rod to avoid catastrophic failure of all electrical appliances within the home in the event of a lightning strike.

Rabbit73 Antennas Direct is very good about replacement parts; maybe they will send you one if needed.

Fool82 Perhaps it was my fault for never calling them after I initially broke the Clear Stream 5. But it was clearly stated in the warranty that it is voided when a customer takes apart the antenna and I had done so before bothering to read the warranty. Perhaps a bad assumption on my part, but I assumed all they would have done is replaced the entire antenna instead of just sending a replacement circuit board that was needed.

Rabbit73 I think you need a preamp at the antenna first before adding a distribution amp. It will improve the system noise figure and make the signals stronger before the coax downlead loss.

Fool82I've tried an RCA Pre-Amp. I was very disappointed with it and made up my mind to never pay $30.00 and buy another one to see if the first one was defective. I could shorten the coax slightly. But there isn't more then 1 feet of extra coax on my cable length, so I didn't feel it necessary.
http://www.amazon.com/RCA-TVPRAMP1R-...rds=RCA+Preamp

Rabbit73 What direction is the aim for your antennas? If it is on the south eave, it appears to be correct for Green Bay, but I need confirmation.

Fool82Correct I aimed the antennas toward Green Bay at approximately 34 degrees North East for the ClearStream 2.

rabbit73 The HBU33 has approx. the same gain as your two AD antennas, but in one package. You could mount it (with a preamp) facing Milwaukeen and use an A/B switch to select which antenna you want to avoid a rotator.

Fool82 I've read I would be facing antenna interference if I tried mounting multiple antennas in the same are. I've been tempted to experiment with it, but I know it's not necessary. I was curious if the HBU33 was more powerful then the Clearstream 2 and 5 combined.

Tower Guy I think that your choice of antennas is good as is your mounting location. I agree with rabbit that you need a preamp. I'd assume that the one that you tried was overloaded by FM, had too much gain, was faulty, or was installed wrong. I'd try a TVPRAMP-1R with the FM Trap on. You could also try an external FM trap between the VHF antenna and the VHF input of the preamp.

Fool82 I'm not familiar with the TVPRAMP-1R. I will look into the cost and effort to install it. The RCA Pre-Amp I tried last year I assume just simply was the wrong pre-amp to try or I received a defective one. There is a local Am/FM station I never considered could be causing interference. K107.1 FM and KFIZ 1450 A.M. The stations are only 3 miles from my home. I will have to look into a FM Trap.But I doubt just an external FM trap on the VHF antenna would be needed as the only VHF station broadcasting WLUK Fox 11 is coming in fine.
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Old 31-Aug-2015, 11:16 PM   #6
rabbit73
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Quote:
Haven't figured out how to use the previous comment feature so bear with me.
copy text>paste into text box>highlight text>click on quote button



If you want to see how someone does something, click on quote button for their post, click on Quote message in reply? if using Quick Reply, click on Go Advanced and you will see how they did it in their text box for that post.
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Old 1-Sep-2015, 1:28 AM   #7
rabbit73
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I don't think we have been much help with your WCWF problem and I'm scraping the bottom of the barrel for ideas. There must be an unknown factor. You haven't told us much about your system inside the house.

They could be running reduced power because of transmitter problems. You could call the station engineer.

You could have local RF interference from other services. We have a local paging transmitter that messes with cable channel 19 (150 to 156 MHz). You could have electrical interference from switchmode power supplies, like AC adapters.

Quote:
But I doubt just an external FM trap on the VHF antenna would be needed as the only VHF station broadcasting WLUK Fox 11 is coming in fine.
That is the conventional thinking. I still think FM interference should be considered. It still could be fundamental overload; your strongest FM station is 60 dB stronger than WCWF.

It is not in your best self-interest to reject a new idea just because it doesn't agree with your old idea. Didn't you come here for new ideas because you were having trouble?

Looking at the terrain profile between WCWF and your location, it isn't too difficult to imagine buildings or trees popping up above the terrain, not to mention the interference from the 1st Edge peak.

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Last edited by rabbit73; 1-Sep-2015 at 2:46 PM.
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Old 1-Sep-2015, 5:09 PM   #8
Fool82
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I'm not rejecting anyone's suggestions rabbit73. Has anyone had concern about my antennas being to close to my roof? I originally went with a J-arm because I was expecting to use only the ClearStream 2 only. Things became complicated when I had to also use the ClearStream 5 to recieve my local FOX station.

I purchased a eaves mount from Radio Shack last fall.

http://www.radioshack.com/eaves-moun...s/1500891.html

It is rated for supporting a antenna mast of no more then 5 ft. But I believe that measurement is rated for an Antenacraft HBU33 or larger antenna. Would I be okay with a mast 8-10 feet long with the Clearstream 2? The 8-10 feet length would be 1 5 feet mast with an 4-5 geet mast extension mounted. Would I need a better eaves mount or need to consider adding mast wires for support?

I thought elevation would help improve signal and possible avoid tree reception problems I've been having at this time of year.

As people really recommend a pre-amp. Where would I mount the pre-amp with the 2 antennas? I'm wondering if I mount it in between the Clearstream 2 and Clearstream 5? Or do I mount it beneath the Clearstream 5?

I'm also curious, if I were to mount and use all 3 antennas. How would I do this safely and avoid antenna interference and receive stations from both Green Bay and Milwaukee,WI?
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Old 1-Sep-2015, 5:14 PM   #9
Fool82
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I originally went with the RCA distribution amp because I read multiple times in the forums that was the best way to go. I also explained I did not have good results with the RCA Pre-Amp and was very happy with the results of the Distribution Amp.

My in house setup. I have an HDHomrun tuner with 2 coax connecters directly into the distribution amp. I have an HDHomerun Plus with 1 coax connecter directly into the distribution amp. And instead of capping the 4 coax connecter on the distribution amp. I ran a cable with a splitter supplying 2 televisions. 1 32" tv in my bedroom and 1 60" television in my living room. Out of caution, I will disconnect the coax from my 60" television when thunderstorms are predicted in the area.
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Old 1-Sep-2015, 7:51 PM   #10
rabbit73
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Quote:
Has anyone had concern about my antennas being to close to my roof?
No, not that I'm aware of, as long as the roof doesn't block the signals.
Quote:
It is rated for supporting a antenna mast of no more then 5 ft. But I believe that measurement is rated for an Antenacraft HBU33 or larger antenna.
That is the general rule.
Quote:
Would I be okay with a mast 8-10 feet long with the Clearstream 2? The 8-10 feet length would be 1 5 feet mast with an 4-5 geet mast extension mounted. Would I need a better eaves mount or need to consider adding mast wires for support?
Now you are getting into the "it depends" area. What you want to do sounds reasonable to me, but there is some question in my mind about whether it will help with CW. Denny has some thoughts about eave mounts:
http://dennysantennaservice.com/tv-a...ave-mount.html
Quote:
I thought elevation would help improve signal and possible avoid tree reception problems I've been having at this time of year.
It might; do you see trees in the signal path?
Quote:
As people really recommend a pre-amp. Where would I mount the pre-amp with the 2 antennas? I'm wondering if I mount it in between the Clearstream 2 and Clearstream 5? Or do I mount it beneath the Clearstream 5?
The slight difference in the length of the coax lines is of no importance. Mount it below both to get to it more easily.
Quote:
I'm also curious, if I were to mount and use all 3 antennas. How would I do this safely and avoid antenna interference and receive stations from both Green Bay and Milwaukee,WI?
If you are going to have 3 antennas up there you should use a ground mounted mast that extends above the roof and is fastened in several places with wall brackets on its way up. But for now you need to focus on receiving WCWF because it seems to be important to you and forget about Milwaukee until later.
http://manuals.solidsignal.com/AntInstallGuide.pdf
Quote:
I originally went with the RCA distribution amp because I read multiple times in the forums that was the best way to go.
It is a good way to go if your signals are very strong and you are splitting to many sets inside. But that isn't your situation, which is why those of us that have studied your report feel that a preamp is needed for the weaker signals that are of poor quality because of the impaired signal path. A preamp near the antenna improves the system noise figure which helps with the weak signals.
http://imageevent.com/holl_ands/files/ota
scroll down to and click on File 10
COMPARE System Noise Figures
With and Without Preamps
which should take you here
http://imageevent.com/holl_ands/file...=0&w=1&s=0&z=4
Quote:
I also explained I did not have good results with the RCA Pre-Amp and was very happy with the results of the Distribution Amp.
That doesn't mean that a distribution amp is better than a preamp for your situation. It could be that you got a lemon preamp that was a return. The RCA TVPRAMP1 preamp does have a history of quality control problems. It is inexpensive and can perform quite well if you get a good one.

What is the model number of the RCA distribution amp and which preamp did you use?

WWRS is not extremely strong to the point of overload and WCWF is quite weak so it needs help from antenna gain and preamp gain. Its signal power is only -82.0 dBm and most tuners dropout around -85 dBm, to which you can add the antenna and preamp gains.

WWRS has a Noise Margin of 28.0 dB which puts it in the Good category, far below overload.



Interpreting Noise Margin in the TV Fool Report
http://www.aa6g.org/DTV/Reception/tvfool_nm.html

Quote:
My in house setup. I have an HDHomrun tuner with 2 coax connecters directly into the distribution amp. I have an HDHomerun Plus with 1 coax connecter directly into the distribution amp.
I'm confused by your terminology of "HDHR into distribution amp." Doesn't the signal go from the antenna to the distribution amp, and then to the tuners?

Quote:
I ran a cable with a splitter supplying 2 televisions. 1 32" tv in my bedroom and 1 60" television in my living room.
Does the WCWF signal behave the same on the TVs as on the HDHR?
Quote:
Out of caution, I will disconnect the coax from my 60" television when thunderstorms are predicted in the area.
Good idea, and I hope you also have a surge protector on the AC line. I lost a desktop computer from a nearby strike. The computer was off and it was plugged into a good surge suppressor with its switch off. That's when I started unplugging my computer when I wasn't using it.
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Last edited by rabbit73; 1-Sep-2015 at 9:52 PM.
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Old 1-Sep-2015, 8:37 PM   #11
rabbit73
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But even after my long post I'm still hung up on your original comment.
Quote:
My confusion with the CW station so weak, is why my WACY station comes in at 68% reliably even in the day time when it should be just as weak.
Why indeed?

I looked at the terrain profiles of both, and I looked at the coverage maps for both; very similar. One difference that I can think of are terrain differences of objects above ground elevation:

DTV Coverage and Service
Prediction, Measurement and Performance Indices


Oded Bendov, John F.X. Browne, Charles W. Rhodes, Yiyan Wu, and Pierre Bouchard

Quote:

Abstract-- It is now clear that methods used to predict the replication of NTSC service in the US were idealized and, for the most part, not validated. The need to review the methods and procedures now in use is highlighted by the various field tests conducted in the US and elsewhere.

This paper outlines potential improvements in the modeling, methods and procedures now in use for prediction and measurement of DTV service.

INTRODUCTION


Early on, even before the 8-VSB standard was adopted, it was suggested that low-power HDTV transmission, as low as –12 dB average power relative to NTSC peak visual power, would provide for service replication to at least the Grade-B contour of NTSC stations.

It was generally thought that with incident field strength of 40.8dBu at 615 MHz, DTV receivers would be able to decode the signal and that higher field strength would not improve the reliability of reception.

Those predictions were based on an idealized receiver, a multipath-free propagation channel and coverage prediction software that uses only terrain elevation data, but not terrain clutter data. Clutter data specify the land cover, such as forest, water etc. on top of the terrain elevation data. For these and other reasons, such as time availability statistics, it is now believed that the current predictions of DTV coverage and service will not be realized.

End quote

OR AS TVFOOL SAYS:

Quote:
Please understand that this is a simulation and can only be treated as a rough approximation. Reception at your location is affected by many factors such as multipath, antenna gain, receiver sensitivity, buildings, and trees - which are not taken into account. Your mileage may vary.
Another difference I see is that because of transmitting antenna patterns WCWF only sends about 15 kW of its 800 kW Maximum ERP in your direction, but WACY sends 35 kW of its 50 kW Maximum ERP. See attachments 3 and 4 for relative field polar plots.





But, as you can see by the color code, you are on the fringe for both.
color code here:
http://www.tvfool.com/index.php?opti...id=15&Itemid=1

In very rough terms, the colors can be broken down as follows (not related to Antennaweb):

- White is extremely strong. Beware of signal overload on amps.
- Red-yellow-green are all quite strong. You can expect reasonable coverage with an indoor antenna.
- Cyan is where it's advisable to move the antenna up to the second floor or attic.
- Blue is where it's probably necessary to install a good antenna on the roof.
- Purple is quite weak and you really have to work at it for any chance of reception.

Anything useful here or are my posts tl;dr?
Attached Images
File Type: jpg Fool82TVFwcwf.JPG (89.6 KB, 944 views)
File Type: jpg Fool82TVFwacy.JPG (90.7 KB, 915 views)
File Type: jpg WCWFpattern.JPG (139.9 KB, 334 views)
File Type: jpg WACYpattern.JPG (142.5 KB, 315 views)
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Last edited by rabbit73; 2-Sep-2015 at 11:31 AM.
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Old 2-Sep-2015, 5:22 PM   #12
Fool82
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Allot of information to digest

I thank you for the replies rabbit73.

I've learned over the past year and half, that over the air television is not magic and it takes allot of effort to get good results with the stations available.

Truth be told, had I known how difficult it was to install and aim the ClearStream 2 and ClearStream 5 , I most likely would not have purchased them and had gone with a traditional antenna like the HBU33 or larger with a rotor. I had thought roof clearance was a factor as previously on reddit it was brought to my attention as a factor.

Also from reddit, I was criticised for having a ground loop situation for not bonding all ground rods together. I previously explained that I never bonded all ground rods together based on cost and practicality of achieving that. I figured with my current setup, I at least gave lightning somewhere to go other then inside my house in the event of a strike. I had originally planned to just run the coax from the ClearStream 2 into my attic and attach everything from there. But I changed my mind after considering how dangerous it was to do so.

I'm willing to accept the RCA pre-amp that I previously posted a link from Amazon was or became a dud when I attempted to use it several times with no real success last year. My local Menards sells them and I have 1 friend who swears by that pre-amp. But I really wasn't impressed with the build quality and think I really need to consider the pre-amp Towerguy recommended.

It's possible leaves from trees are blocking the signal from WCWF at this time of year. But normally I should at least see something from the televisions or either HDHomerun tuner at night. Currently there just isn't any signal to tune into at night. I hadn't payed close attention to the signal quality until earlier in August this summer. But I never experienced this last year of no signal over weak signal from last year.

So unless I'm told otherwise, I don't need to take down the J-arm and really need to consider trying another pre-amp before making the effort to redo everything. If all else fails, I will be content if I can't receive my local CW station as Hulu created and is offering add free service as of today.
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Old 2-Sep-2015, 6:57 PM   #13
rabbit73
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The RCA TVPRAMP1R preamp does have a history of quality control problems, but you can buy three of them for the price of one Channel Master 7778. One of the problems is with the separate/combined switch. If you have the switch in the separate position to use two antennas, one for VHF and one for UHF as in your case, sometimes the switch doesn't make good contact with the VHF antenna. The workaround is to use a UVSJ to combine the two antennas and connect the UVSJ to the combined input of the preamp.
http://www.rcaantennas.net/docs/comm...PRAMP1R_OM.pdf

http://voxrightnow.custhelp.com/app/...ramp1r-outdoor

http://voxrightnow.custhelp.com/app/...-pre-amplifier

You should try an FM filter now in the coax between the antenna and the distribution amp. If you mount a preamp near the antenna, the filter should come before the preamp. Two filters to consider:
http://www.mcmelectronics.com/produc...800829%2Cd.eXY

http://www.radioshack.com/radioshack...p/1500024.html

Sorry I wasn't able to give you the magic answer to your problem. Please let us know if you have any success on this same thread.

Best regards,
rabbit
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Last edited by rabbit73; 3-Sep-2015 at 8:59 PM.
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Old 3-Sep-2015, 5:15 PM   #14
Fool82
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Join Date: Oct 2014
Location: Fond Du Lac,WI
Posts: 8
I thank rabbit73 for the information. I will have to take some time to consider what the do now. I may purchase an FM filter. But I will consider purchasing an Pre-Amp as well. I was leaning to the channel master even though far more expensive. I do believe you get what you pay for. And I really don't like climbing a ladder repeatedly to mess with my antennas.

One thing I have to consider, I have read you can create more problems then solve them when you try using a pre-amp with an distribution amp. So I have to consider what I want as a final setup.
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Old 3-Sep-2015, 8:51 PM   #15
rabbit73
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Join Date: Aug 2012
Location: S.E. VA
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Quote:
One thing I have to consider, I have read you can create more problems then solve them when you try using a pre-amp with an distribution amp. So I have to consider what I want as a final setup.
That is correct; it is rare that both are needed. There is such a thing as too much amplification; if the preamp doesn't get overloaded, the tuner might. Using both would only be appropriate if all your signals are weak, and you are feeding many TVs with long coax runs.

The advantage of using a preamp instead of a distribution amp of the same gain is that the preamp is positioned near the antenna which gives a lower system noise figure because it eliminates the coax downlead loss between the antenna and the amp. However, in many cases if the downlead is short the distribution amp can perform nearly as well as the preamp, if the distribution amp has a low noise figure.

What is interesting to me is that I have been working on your thread and two others that are very similar to yours: separate VHF and UHF antennas, missing channel, and terrain interference. When switching back and forth between the threads, I have to review each thread to keep from getting them mixed up and giving the wrong advice.

It might benefit you to look at those two other threads if you haven't already. MikeBear solved his problem by raising his antenna:
One channel issue, high VHF
http://forum.tvfool.com/showthread.php?t=15701
Antenna options
http://forum.tvfool.com/showthread.php?t=15459
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Last edited by rabbit73; 3-Sep-2015 at 10:07 PM.
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