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Old 7-Nov-2014, 11:48 AM   #1
Dermestes
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Help with reception in rural WV

Here are my TVFool reports at varying heights:

20: http://www.tvfool.com/?option=com_wr...d24310ae49afff

30: http://www.tvfool.com/?option=com_wr...d24321f2bfab6c

50: http://www.tvfool.com/?option=com_wr...d24309292dc024

100: http://www.tvfool.com/?option=com_wr...d2438e1afca42c

I currently have a Clearstream 4 pointed at KDKA-DT 25 (2.1) and can pick it up but sometimes there is static and can't get WPMY, WPGH, WTAE. For VHF I have a Clearstream 5 pointed at WTRF/WTOV which it picks up fantastic. They are mounted about 30' up on different ends of a 2.5 story garage and ran inside to a HDHomerun tuner. Would I benefit from switching the Clearstream 4 to a 91XG or something different to help pick up my UHF channels from Pittsburgh?

Thanks
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Old 7-Nov-2014, 7:00 PM   #2
Dermestes
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So I tried a 91xg and it seems to be way worse than the CS4 for me. Unless I am doing something wrong with this antenna or it may be overamplification due to channel 33 being so close. Any suggestions?

Thanks.
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Old 7-Nov-2014, 7:37 PM   #3
Dermestes
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Here is the balun configuration. The instructions suck and wondering if this is correct?

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Old 7-Nov-2014, 8:38 PM   #4
ADTech
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Your assembly is correct.

Quote:
it may be overamplification
What amplification?

Quote:
t seems to be way worse
What, exactly, does "way worse" actually mean?
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Old 7-Nov-2014, 8:48 PM   #5
Dermestes
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ADTech View Post
Your assembly is correct.



What amplification?



What, exactly, does "way worse" actually mean?


For testing I have the antenna connected directly to an HDHomerun with about 20' of coax. I am going by the signal meter on the HDHomerun for pointing and it seems to only get a 100% signal on 33 (Close UHF station) and cant get over 40% on other stations. I just tried plugging in my cm7777 and running the preamp in to my house then to tv's and it seems decent except for WPMY/WPGH are still cutting in and out with pixelization and static sound but you can actually see the picture fairly decent.
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Old 7-Nov-2014, 10:03 PM   #6
Dermestes
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Before the 91XG I had the Clearstream 4 connected directly to the HDHomerun with 20' of coax without any amplification in between and could pick up some Pittsburgh channels but not all. Currently with the 91XG in the same configuration I only get channel 33. Do you think changing the configuration to 91xg > CM7777 > 20' coax run > Inserter > HDHomerun would be worth trying? or is that to much amplification?

Thanks
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Old 8-Nov-2014, 12:17 AM   #7
ADTech
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Quote:
is that to much amplification?
Undoubtedly, if your TVF is even close to accurate.

Try something in between the 91XG and your HDHR input. A two port splitter will give around 3.5 dB of attenuation.

Ch 33 is some 60 dB stronger than the weaker signals. I suspect the differential may be too much and and the tuner is being desensitized, causing the weakest signals to get blocked.

You'd likely do best with a ch 33 notch filter down about 40 dB, then the preamp. That would prevent ch 33 from overloading the system.
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Last edited by ADTech; 8-Nov-2014 at 12:23 AM.
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Old 8-Nov-2014, 1:38 AM   #8
Dermestes
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I tried finding a channel 33 notch filter but can't find any. Have a link?
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Old 8-Nov-2014, 2:33 AM   #9
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http://www.tinlee.com/index.php

Call them. They are the best in the business. Not cheap, but absolutely correct.
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Old 8-Nov-2014, 11:45 PM   #10
Dermestes
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tonyp063 View Post
http://www.tinlee.com/index.php

Call them. They are the best in the business. Not cheap, but absolutely correct.

Any idea on price range before getting a hold of them?
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Old 9-Nov-2014, 12:24 AM   #11
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They are custom made for each customer's application, so you need to call them to get a price.
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Old 9-Nov-2014, 1:55 AM   #12
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I got a bid for a 20db attenuation on Ch 15 @ $120 from them. Pricey, but they are the best.
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Old 9-Nov-2014, 1:54 PM   #13
Dermestes
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I have emailed tinlee asking about a 40db loss for channel 33. Hopefully they will get back to me shortly.
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Old 9-Nov-2014, 4:19 PM   #14
ADTech
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Before doing anything else, perform the simple test I gave you by adding some insertion loss to the input of the tuner.

The difference in gain between the C4 and the 91XG at channel 33 is around 3 dB. Cooling the incoming signal from the 91XG down by 3.5-4 dB will be enough to tell if the extra gain of the 91XG is causing the problem or not.

You can expect that filter to run somewhere around $125-150. Therefore, it behooves you to do some preliminary testing to see if it's needed or if you have other issues that first must be resolved. I've hate for you to drop that much cash only to find out later that you need to do something different.

Keep in mind that the 91XG is far, far more directional than a C4 with about half the beamwidth. Aim that was "good enough" for a C4 may or may not be good enough for a 91XG.
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Last edited by ADTech; 9-Nov-2014 at 4:22 PM.
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Old 10-Nov-2014, 3:00 PM   #15
Dermestes
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Somehow it seems my HDHomerun is broken/not working correctly anymore. I have tried it on my VHF antenna and will no longer find channels but a TV does. I am not sure what has happened but it seems hosed. So current setup is.....

91xg and CS5 > Combiner > CM7777 > 200ish feet of cable > Power Inserter > TV


On WPGH and WPMY the signal bounces up and down as does the SNR displayed on the TV with cutouts of the video and pixelization. The signal for WPGH is between 74-82 and SNR goes from 19-25 as displayed on my Sony TV.
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Old 10-Nov-2014, 7:04 PM   #16
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You cannot run a CM7777 with its 30 dB of gain in this location with a 91XG without protecting the front end from the ch 33 signal.
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Old 10-Nov-2014, 10:43 PM   #17
Dermestes
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Do you think 40db notch filter for channel 33 would be enough? It appears to be at least 60 db over the next UHF I'm trying to get.

Thanks again.
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Old 12-Nov-2014, 7:08 PM   #18
Dermestes
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Quotes back from Tinlee. $130 for a 30db and $225 for a 60db for channel 30. I am unsure which would be the correct route. Technically I don't watch PBS very often but wouldn't mind keeping it available.
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Old 12-Nov-2014, 7:52 PM   #19
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Repeat after me: Channel 33. That's three-three. If you get a ch 30 filter, it won't work. I only emphasize this because I had a customer last year who, after I sent him the correct parameters, accidentally put in the virtual channel number when he ordered. He ended up with a $130 paperweight. I suspect that the ch 30 mention is only a typo, but it's imperative that the filter be properly specified.

Go for the 30 dB notch filter, it should keep the pre-amp out of trouble. You won't lose PBS with either filter, but it also won't overload the amp with the filter installed.
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Old 12-Nov-2014, 8:11 PM   #20
Dermestes
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Thanks I double checked the quote....channel 33 at 30db. Sorry for the typo. I had to send back my hdhomerun. Not sure what exactly killed it.
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