Antenna Advice Needed

[gtrippleb]

Like everyone else, I'm trying to decipher what antenna I would need to receive the signals in my area. From looking at the tvfool report, it looks like I wouldn't need a high power antenna if I read the report correctly.

http://www.tvfool.com/?option=com_wr...27ee87b4e9cfa8

The channels that show in the yellow would be fine for me as it would give me two options for the network tv stations. I live between Raleigh, NC and Greensboro, NC. I don't live in a straight line between them but in a triangle configuration to the south of them in the middle. So Raleigh is to the North East direction and Greensboro is to the North West direction.

Around me are pine trees in almost all direction. I have a pole that has an old antenna mounted to it and I think I got like 2 channels from it that were snowy the last time I tried it. This was before the digital transition so I don't know what I would get now. The antenna has the flat cable connected to it, I don't remember what it's called as it's been awhile since I've looked into antennas.

Looking at the report, it looks like I would be fine with an antenna that can receive channels 7-51. This is if I read the report correctly. Going off of this information, it looks like I could use the following antennas:

Channel Master 4228HD
Channel Master 3016
Channel Master 2018
Channel Master 2016

Off hand I'm not sure what the real difference is, other than elements and size.

I'm sure there are others, these are just ones that I looked at recently and figured they would be fine for my purposes. I have an old channel master antenna pre-amp, not sure of the model anymore. I've had it since 2000 which at the time I used it yrs ago, it seemed to help. I'd probably look at getting a new one, but haven't decided yet. I'm looking at getting away from Directv when my contract is up in June so I figured I'd start looking at what my options are. Any and all help is greatly appreciated.

[mtownsend]

Originally Posted by gtrippleb

From looking at the tvfool report, it looks like I wouldn't need a high power antenna if I read the report correctly.

Hello and welcome!

You have an interesting situation, indeed. Your signals are medium strength, but come from opposite sides of the house. The stations are almost exactly 180 degrees apart. You don't need a whole lot of gain to get these channels, but the problem is that if you aim an antenna at one of the markets, you won't get much signal from the other market (because the "back" side of the antenna would have very low gain) and vice versa.

You could install an antenna rotator. This would let you get channels from either market, but only one at a time. It also gives you the option of viewing channels in other directions, including a shot at a few stations out of Roanoke and Myrtle Beach if you go with a bigger antenna.

The other option is to install back-to-back antennas pointing at both Greensboro and Raleigh. This reduces the effective gain of each antenna (which should be OK because of the good signal strengths), but it makes it possible to receive both markets simultaneously without having to touch anything.

it looks like I would be fine with an antenna that can receive channels 7-51. This is if I read the report correctly. Going off of this information, it looks like I could use the following antennas:

Channel Master 4228HD
Channel Master 3016
Channel Master 2018
Channel Master 2016

What I'm going to suggest may sound a little strange, but I think it will actually work well:

- Get two CM 4221HDs
- Install them back-to-back at the top of a mast
- Using two short identical lengths of RG6, connect them together using an ordinary 2-way splitter/combiner
- Get a Winegard YA-1713 or Antennacraft Y10-7-13 (high-VHF Yagis)
- Install the high-VHF Yagi about 4 feet lower on the mast
- Combine the UHF feed and VHF feed through a UVSJ combiner (cable lengths do not need to be identical for this part)
- Send the single combined feed into the house
- DO NOT use any pre-amp or antennas with built-in amps
- Mount the mast on the roof with the VHF Yagi and one of the CM 4221s pointed at Raleigh, the other 4221 should be pointed at Greensboro



Here's the reasoning behind these choices:

> I think the added gain of the 4221 (compared to the smaller 4220) will help improve signal reliability. You lose a bit of antenna gain when combining antennas, you have some trees to shoot through, and you won't have a pre-amp, so I thought the extra gain in the antenna would help compensate in all three regards. The CM 4228 has only a tiny gain improvement over the 4221 and adds way too much weight and bulk to be used in this way.

> You'll need the high-VHF Yagi to deal with WTVD (ABC, ch 11). You can also use the smaller versions of these Yagis (Winegard YA-6713 or Antennacraft Y5-7-13).

> The UVSJ combines separate UHF and VHF inputs more efficiently and with less interference than a standard 2-way splitter/combiner. It's the best way to combine signals from different frequency bands. Since the two 4221s are in the same frequency band, you must use a standard 2-way splitter to join them before going to the UVSJ.

> You have two very strong local transmitters that are strong enough to cause concern for amp overload. An overloaded amp can make things worse rather than better. To avoid that possibility altogether, just don't use an amp. With good starting signal strengths and good antennas, you don't need the amplification.

> With this setup, you avoid the need for a rotator. This lets you enjoy channels from two markets without having to touch anything. It is especially helpful for unattended recording of programs (DVR).

[gtrippleb]

I appreciate the information. I haven't had a chance to look at the specs on the cm 4221 so I might answer my own question once I do. Do I need the yagi to get channel 11 because the 4221 doesn't go that low? I figured I wouldn't need to much to get decent signals due to the distance.

Would there be enough signal to be able to split the signal in two? I'd be looking at hooking up another tv for a two of two once I went this route with the antennas.

Another question I thought of while thinking about antennas, I'd be looking at hooking up an antenna to my home stereo and was wondering if I could use one of the suggested antennas or if I would need to buy a seperate FM antenna? I've read/heard that some tv antennas will work to bring in FM signals.

Again I appreciate the information.

[gtrippleb]

It looks like I answered my own questions doing some research on the cm4221HD.
The Channel Master 4221HD antenna is designed for UHF frequencies only (channels 14-69), both digital and analog.

[gtrippleb]

Is there that much difference between the Winegard YA-1713 or Antennacraft Y10-7-13 and then the smaller versions you listed, (Winegard YA-6713 or Antennacraft Y5-7-13)? Obviously the size and it looks like price might be the big difference. It looks like the y5-7-13 has a 60 mile range and it about 10-15 dollars cheaper than the YA-1713.

[mtownsend]

Originally Posted by gtrippleb

Would there be enough signal to be able to split the signal in two? I'd be looking at hooking up another tv for a two of two once I went this route with the antennas.

Yes, I think that with the higher gain of the 4221 and the Yagi, you'll have enough signal for a two way split. If you need to split it more or if you think you're going to have some long cable runs (more than say 50 feet), then I'd consider adding a low-gain pre-amp on the mast (like the Winegard HDP-269).

I'd be looking at hooking up an antenna to my home stereo and was wondering if I could use one of the suggested antennas or if I would need to buy a seperate FM antenna? I've read/heard that some tv antennas will work to bring in FM signals.

Antennas designed to cover low-VHF (ch 2-6) will work for FM because FM frequencies (88-108 MHz) are actually right above channel 6 (82-88 MHz). Since a low-VHF TV antenna has high gain on channel 6, it will still have pretty high gain across all the FM frequencies too.

High-VHF (ch 7-13) goes from 174 MHz to 216 MHz. Since there's a big frequency gap between FM and channel 7 (108 MHz to 174 MHz), a the gain of a high-VHF antenna (like the YA-1713 or Y10-7-13) will not effectively cover the FM frequencies. If you have very strong local FM broadcasts, some of the signal can still go through the antenna, but it's nowhere near the signal level you'd get with a low-VHF antenna.

Is there that much difference between the Winegard YA-1713 or Antennacraft Y10-7-13 and then the smaller versions you listed, (Winegard YA-6713 or Antennacraft Y5-7-13)?

The smaller versions of these Yagis get about 3 dB less gain than their larger counterparts. The performance difference between the two brands is close enough to be considered negligible. Winegard has a slightly better reputation for build quality and design, but I don't see any major issues going either way.

The added gain of the larger antennas might help if you are planning to split the signal, but since your signals are so strong to begin with, I don't really see a problem going with the smaller antennas. It's mostly a matter of how much extra margin do you want to maintain in order to minimize the chance of pixellation and/or channel drop-outs during bad weather or other random events that might cause signal fluctuations.

[gtrippleb]

It looks like it's time to get the antennas as our sat bill just went up another $5 and I can't see spending $900/yr to watch essentially 10 channels. I'm going to get the 4221s and go with the smaller y5-7-13. Hopefully this will be strong enough to watch tv on two sources. 50 ft will probably be at the end of the run I'm thinking so I should be ok.

I appreciate the info.

[gtrippleb]

It looks like our directv bill has went up again, $90/month this time as according to them they had a price increase. So I finally decided to try out the 4221HD and see what kind of reception it had since we told Directv to go ahead and cancel our service.
I went with one 4221HD, for the time being, and the Antennacraft Y5-7-13 for TV reception. I purchased the FM-6 for FM stations which I haven't hooked up yet. I pulled the 4221HD out of the box tonight and ran about a 6 ft cable from the antenna to the tv. I then placed it against the wall pretty much behind the tv just to see what I could get. I programmed my tv and I think it recognized about 15-18 channels. Some SD and some HD channels. I even picked up some non network channel out of Greensboro but I don't remember what it is off hand. The channels that the tv recognizes but I don't get a picture for are WFMY-DT out of Greensboro and WNCN-DT out of Raleigh. Which is kind of surprising as according to TVFool, they are the same distance as some other channels I get a picture for. My assumption is that their signal may not be as strong. I was pretty surprised in the clarity of the stations. Most were better looking than what we were getting on Directv.

So I know that once I put these up on my pole which will be about 20ft off the ground, I should be able to pretty easily pick up all of the channels in a 40-50 mile radius. I haven't hooked up the Y5-7-13 yet but if I can get 40 miles out of the 4221 sitting in the house, I'm pretty sure I should be able to pick up channel 11 outside in the air. Most of the signals were between 8% and 22% according to the signal meter on my tv.

Thanks again for the info/help as it's greatly appreciated.

[gtrippleb]

I thought I would post up some numbers for people looking for some information in my area. I bought a 4221HD and a Y5-7-13 along with the FM6 for FM stations. I finally got around to hooking up the 4221 and the FM6 over the weekend on my pole which is about 20 to 25ft tall. I think the antennas are about 20ft off the ground. I haven't tried out the FM6 but I have hooked up the 4221 and here are the signal numbers. I have the 4221hd pointed towards Raleigh. I have the Y5-7-13 above the FM6 which is above the 4221hd. It's possible there might be some interference or something due to the closeness of one another.

2.1 = 4
2.2 = 5
4.1 = 86
4.2 = 86
4.3 = 86
5.1 = 79
5.2 = 77
8.1 = 10
8.2 = 10
11.1 = 3-14
11.2 = 5-10
11.3 = 0-6
17.1 = 67
17.2 = 68
17.3 = 68
20.1 = 66
20.2 = 66
20.3 = 65
28.1 = 59-63
28.2 = 63
40.1 = 86
40.2 = 86
50.1 = 52
50.2 = 53

I've noticed that anything less than about 60-65 there are some break ups in the signal. I'm thinking of trying either a Winegard HDP-269 or a Channel Master CM3412 as I'm not sure what the signal strength will be like after I split the signal to my other tv. The cable run is about 40-50ft.
Depending on the direction I have the 4221 pointed, I could pick up 11.1 through 11.3 but the screen would break up as the signal was in the 40s I think it was. I'd like to get everything around 80 or above as even in the lower 70s sometimes the screen would break up. In order to get channels 2.1 through 2.3 along with 8.1 and 8.2, I'll have to pick up another 4221 and point it towards Greensboro.

Thanks for the help in selecting antennas. This site has been very helpful with all of the information that's provided.