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Old 20-Nov-2013, 2:11 AM   #1
Jec047
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Antenna Recommendations Wanted

I am seeking antenna recommendations relevant to this report:

http://www.tvfool.com/?option=com_wr...46aec3c592ffed

For my purposes, I will be happy to receive the green channels between 330 and 340 degrees.

The antenna will be located in my attic. I was thinking about the DB2 or DB4, based solely on how they would fit in my attic. Are these good choices?

Thanks in advance.
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Old 20-Nov-2013, 2:41 AM   #2
teleview
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The Current Tv channels that are being transmitted and received in the , USA , Canada , Mexico , are

VHF low band channels 2 thru 6 .

VHF high band channels 7 thru 13 .

UHF band channels 14 thru 51 .

Your location has receivable channels in the VHF high band and UHF band.

A ANT751 antenna is designed to receive the VHF high band channels and UHF band channels.

The antennas you have named are designed to receive the UHF band.
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A Simple reception situation.

Above the roof in such as manner that the roof and building are not , obstructing , impeding , blocking , reception in the directions of , north west , east north east , west , south west , south south east .

Install a ANT751 aka ANT751R antenna aimed at about 323 degree magnetic compass direction.

Here is how to aim antennas , www.kyes.com/antenna/pointing/pointing.html

Use a Real and Actual magnetic compass to aim antenna.

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The reception at your location is strong signal strength.

No antenna system amplifier is required.

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For 1 Tv connected use No splitter.

For 2 Tv's connected use a simple common 2 way splitter.

For 3 Tv's connected use a simple common 3 way splitter.

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Home Depot and Lowes can have the ANT751/R in stock in the store no matter what the Home Depot and Lowes web sites say.

Here are more places to buy antennas and etc. .

www.solidsignal.com

www.amazon.com

Last edited by teleview; 20-Nov-2013 at 4:19 AM. Reason: Clarify information and typos.
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Old 20-Nov-2013, 2:42 AM   #3
GroundUrMast
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The DB2 and DB4 are great UHF only antennas. Because you have KSTW and KCTS available on High VHF channels (9 & 11) I'd suggest you consider a C2-V.

http://www.antennasdirect.com/store/uhf-vhf.html

Be prepared to mount outdoors, clear of obstructions if your attic proves to be a poor reception site (as many attics are).

You may also want to consider using the DB4e + Antennacraft Y5713 + a UHF/VHF combiner. the added gain and directivity may improve your odds of a successful attic install.
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Last edited by GroundUrMast; 20-Nov-2013 at 2:45 AM. Reason: optional solution
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Old 20-Nov-2013, 3:06 AM   #4
teleview
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Attics Are Not a reception friendly environment and Never Will Be a reception friendly environment .

Yes start with the ANT751 antenna in the attic.

If reception situations happen in the attic that are not resolvable with antenna aim adjustments and antenna location adjustments in the attic , then install the ANT751 antenna above the roof.
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Old 20-Nov-2013, 3:49 PM   #5
tomfoolery
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jec047 View Post
The antenna will be located in my attic. I was thinking about the DB2 or DB4, based solely on how they would fit in my attic. Are these good choices?
Personal experience with the DB4e in my attic, with a TVFool report very similar to yours as far as LOS, distance to towers, and NM go (but with a 30 degree arc between towers), I've found the antenna to be excellent with UHF and real channel 10, and only pretty good with real 13, which sometimes gets dropouts even though signal strength shows 90-92% almost always.

I added an indoor dipole from a portable TV, with length adjusted to real 13, hanging under the DB4e by its short twin-lead, and connected with a standard 2-way splitter as a combiner, and real 13 now comes in at 100% as well as 10. A real UHF/VHF combiner would be better as far as avoiding signal degradation or loss from the two antennas interacting with each other, but I think I'm going to wait until AD has the dipole kit available for retrofit, as recently discussed in another thread.

I also want to move it outdoors, and an indoor rabbit ears dipole isn't going to last out there, so the real thing would make more sense.

I'm having trouble getting all the stations I want, mostly because it's in the attic, but also because there's a neighbor's house in the way of a group of stations I didn't know I could get until the scan picked them up (weak, but as I said, there's a house in the way). Moving it to the gable end of the garage would clear the neighbor's house, but it would be pointed into a stand of trees. Given the 100% signal strength I get on the one UHF station on the other side of those trees (all the others would be in the clear), even inside the attic, I'm betting moving it outside but pointed into those trees would still give me good reception on that one channel, which comes in at 100% now even though it's 30 miles away and the antenna's in the attic, and allow an unobstructed view of all the other towers.

This is only one data point, of course, but you've gotten good advice above, which is consistent with my experience so far. Though the DB4e can receive some high VHF, the addition of a dipole and combiner would complete the package. Or use separate antennas for high-VHF and UHF and a combiner, or something like the ANT751, which already has all the required bits in one unit.

Even though I have a fair bit of room in my attic, I chose the DB4e because of it's size, allowing me to move it around up there more readily, looking for a sweet spot. My FM antenna really takes up a lot of space, and it's small as antennas go, relatively speaking - I didn't want to deal with the horizontal format of a Yagi type TV antenna, too.

Just some personal observations. Take them for what they're worth.

Last edited by tomfoolery; 20-Nov-2013 at 4:14 PM. Reason: channel number typo correction
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Old 20-Nov-2013, 4:05 PM   #6
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As always , trees and tree leaves , plants and plant leaves , have a Negative Effect on Broadcast Tv Reception , and so do buildings and other obstructions including your own roof and building.

Some and not all Negative Effects are

Absorbing , Blocking , Reception

Multi-Path Reflecting Tv Signals Bouncing Around.

The Best Practice is to install the antenna at a location that has the least amount to no amount of obstructions of any type or kind in the directions of reception including your own roof and house.

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The Tv's Must Channel Scan for the , OTA=Over The Air , Digital Broadcast Tv stations/channels , often named the ~ DTV Channels ~ Antenna Channels ~ Air Channels ~ because the Tv transmissions travel through the Air from the transmitting antenna to the receiving antenna.

Some digital Tv's will Automatic channel scan for cable Tv channels.

DO NOT channel scan for cable Tv channels.

Go into the Tv Setup Memu and select , DTV Channels ~ Antenna Channels ~ Air Channels~ .

Scan for channels.

Last edited by teleview; 20-Nov-2013 at 9:53 PM. Reason: Clarify information and typos.
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Old 20-Nov-2013, 7:50 PM   #7
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Given that KCPQ broadcasts the same programing on real CH-22 (in the same HD resolution), there is no compelling need for off angle reception of real CH-13 in this case. Real CH-9 & 11 are the two VHF channels that carry major network programming (K08OU-D, real CH-8 carries multiple 3ABN video & audio channels).
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Last edited by GroundUrMast; 21-Nov-2013 at 12:04 AM.
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Old 20-Nov-2013, 8:32 PM   #8
Jec047
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Thanks

My thanks to all that replied. I ordered the ANT751.
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Old 1-Mar-2014, 7:50 PM   #9
Jec047
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I've been fiddling with this for a while now. I started out with the antenna in the attic, which did not work reliably. One thing I noticed was that during cloudy weather the antenna needed to be pretty much level but during clear weather it had to be tilted upwards to get decent reception.

I then moved the antenna onto the roof, without a mast. This works a lot better but reception is still spotty during clear weather. I haven't tried tilting the antenna since it was moved to the roof.

Can anyone explain this behavior, and suggest a remedy? Would a different antenna help?
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Old 2-Mar-2014, 4:55 AM   #10
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The Digital Broadcast Tv Stations are Strong Signal Strength in the Green and Yellow reception zones of the Tvfool radar report and channel list.

What Tv stations in the Green and Yellow zones are , spotty??

What channels are spotty??

How is the antenna installed now??

Is the antenna aimed to the North West??

Is the antenna mounted at a location Above The Peak of the Roof that provides unobstructed reception of the main group of Tv stations to the North West , and the other Tv stations to the , West , South West , South , East , North East??

If not , what are the obstructions??

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As a Test to prove reception , install a New Matching Transformer to the Antenna and Connect a New Continues length of RG-6 coax to the matching transformer and run the Continues length of coax through a open door or window Direct to 1 Tv , No splitters , No couplers.
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Old 2-Mar-2014, 6:48 AM   #11
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Wet roofing is more conductive than dry. As a result, a wet roof deck reflects and absorbs radio waves differently than the same deck when it's dry. The result is that signal conditions in an attic are far more variable and prone to change than those outside the attic.

Trees and other vegetation are also good at reflecting and absorbing radio waves.

The DB4E + Y5713 is not overkill in your situation. In fact even larger antennas could be used.
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Old 4-Mar-2014, 12:26 AM   #12
Jec047
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>> What Tv stations in the Green and Yellow zones are , spotty??

>> What channels are spotty??

Channels 5 (KING) and 7 (KIRO) are the most problematic.

>> How is the antenna installed now??

I made a test fixture that straddles the peak of my roof and swivels to aim the antenna.
The whole thing is only a few inches high. BTW, I do not have the option of installing a
tall mast.

>> Is the antenna aimed to the North West??

Yes, at about 320 degrees magnetic.

>>Is the antenna mounted at a location Above The Peak of the Roof that provides
>> unobstructed reception of the main group of Tv stations to the North West , and
>> the other Tv stations to the , West , South West , South , East , North East??

>>If not , what are the obstructions??

Above the peak of the roof, yes. My house is somewhat below the top of a hill so I
cannot say with certainty how obstructed the reception is. Certainly it is good
enough at least part of the time.
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Old 14-Mar-2014, 4:25 AM   #13
Jec047
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>> The DB4E + Y5713 is not overkill in your situation. In fact even larger antennas could be used.

The idea being that a bigger antenna requires less signal to acquire reception, yes?

But will the Y5713 do anything to solve my problem with channel 5?

Also, if I decide to mount more than one antenna, is there some minimum distance by which they should be separated?
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Old 14-Mar-2014, 6:19 AM   #14
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At the risk of over-simplifying, yes, a larger antenna is able to gather more energy from the air, so it can deliver more signal power to the tuner. Larger antennas are usually more directional, and will receive less interference from the sides which equates to a higher quality signal at the tuner.

KING is broadcast on real CH-48, a UHF channel. If you're still having trouble with reliable reception of KING or KIRO (real CH-39, a UHF channel) then you need to improve your UHF reception capability. One way to do that is to place your existing antenna in a location with higher quality signal. (Read that to mean, outside the building, clear of obstructions.) Another possible solution, use a more capable UHF antenna... DB4E, DB8E, 91XG, etc.

The Y5713 is a High-VHF antenna that gives you coverage of real channels 7 through 13. Here in the Seattle market, there are four stations operating in that band, K08OU, KCTS, KSTW & KCPQ (CH-8, 9, 11 & 13 respectively). If you are receiving these with an ANT-751 now, you could use the 751 in place of a Y5713.

The UHF antenna can mount on the same mast as the VHF antenna... 3 feet is the minimum separation I'd use.

I have trees to contend with, and am using a DB4E + Y10713 (the larger version of the Y5713) + a UHF/VHF signal combiner. (My TVFR is not very different than yours. When the weather is bad, windy in particular, I can expect the moving Doug Fir limbs to cause some intermittent interruptions to otherwise strong signals.)
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Last edited by GroundUrMast; 14-Mar-2014 at 6:27 AM. Reason: similar reception conditions
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