Unexpected Reception Issues

Jdruding · 2-Dec-2013, 6:34 PM

I just recently cut the cord and set up an antenna. Based on the advice of the folks at Antenna’s Direct, I got a DB4e, a C2V reflector and an amplifier. My tuner is a TiVo Premiere. I first installed my antenna in the attic, but was getting occasional drop outs. I’m not sure which facts are going to be relevant and which won’t so I’ll tell you everything i can think of. Here is my TVFool info:

http://www.tvfool.com/?option=com_wr...46aef16aa5bafe

When looking at the antenna signal strength in the TiVo, it varies from 60 to 85, but usually hangs around 75-80. It was definitely not steady and fluctuated around regularly. The first thing i did was move my Tivo upstairs, to a much shorter run, to eliminate the length of the run or any wiring issues. I had the same problem. Next, I moved the antenna outside, on the side of my house, at the same level as the second floor windows, pointing to the majority of the local towers. I expected a major jump in reception, but it basically was exactly the same. Previously, i noted that channel 3.1 had issues, but after moving it outside, it seems that 3.1 is ok, but now Fox Philadelphia (29.1) is having issues. Its signal strength is varying from 40-60. I called Antenna’s Direct customer support and they recommended I remove the amp and see if that corrects the issue. I did that, and 29 improved, but still breaks up occasionally. Looking at fcc.gov, it shows that 29 seems to be lower powered than the other big networks, but seems like it should be ok, based on my TV Fool results. Based on my distance and my set up, I didn’t think I would have these kind of issues so i wonder if something simple and stupid is going on that I haven’t thought of. Any other suggestions?

GroundUrMast · 2-Dec-2013, 6:58 PM

How is the C2V 'reflector' mounted? It should not be in front of the DB4e.

I have seen enough reports of TiVo's having this type of difficulty that I'm fairly convinced the OTA tuner used in the TiVo may be a problem... However, don't give up. I would keep trying alternate mounting locations and elevations.

While seeking a location with acceptable signal conditions, use just the antenna assembly, one coax, no splitters or amplifiers and only one connected tuner. (The TiVo is the most critical but consider switching between the TiVo and a traditional TV with ATSC tuner.) http://forum.tvfool.com/showthread.php?t=13646

ADTech · 2-Dec-2013, 7:39 PM

Which specific direction is the antenna facing, towards Philly? Looks like a whole forest in that direction. Trees present their own complications which cannot be predicted in any accurate manner.

The best countermeasures for treed-in locations include 1) Position the antenna as far back from the trees as possible and 2) Position the antenna with as much height as you can safely muster. Beyond that, you're at the mercy of whatever the trees might do to the signals. If the antenna is in the attic, the situation is made worse.

The VHF dipole, if attached to the DB4e, works best if placed on the inside of the mast clamp. In your area, it would only be expected to assist in the reception of channels 6 & 12 from Philly. If those two stations are problem free, then we know that VHF isn't an issue.

Jdruding · 2-Dec-2013, 9:54 PM

Thanks for the feedback! So I did a couple things:

1) I split the line and ran one to my TV and one to the Tivo so i could look at signal strength on each tuner to try to isolate the Tivo as the issue
2) I moved the C2V to be behind the DB4e.

In regards to trees, yes, I"m in the Pine Barrens so i have lots em! They are old oaks so even if i moved it to the roof, I wouldn't clear them so not more could be done there. After readjusting the C2V to behind the DB4e, I had my wife on the phone while i adjusted it and, randomly, I tried moving it down the mast and sure enough, the signal on 29 improved by 10-15%. The mast is under the roof soffet. Could that be interfering? So now 29 is much better, however, now VHF is having a problem.

I was thinking my next step will be to put the C2V back to the way it was and see if 29 and VHF is better. I could move it further down the mast too, but would have to change the mast clamp position, and I don't want to do that unless you all think that might be a factor.

Jdruding · 3-Dec-2013, 2:02 AM

Ok, the plot thickens. After more experimentation, here is what i found out: As I move the antenna up the mast, VHF channel signal improves, and UHF channel signal declines. When I move the antenna down the mast, the opposite occurs. So, at the top of the mast, channel 6 is perfect, at the bottom, channel 29 is perfect. Right now I kind of have it in the middle, trying to optimize both, but neither are perfect. Any thoughts on this or how i can exploit this or can anyone explain it? Perhaps I should mount the C2V, by itself, at the top of the mast and the DB4e at the bottom?

ADTech · 3-Dec-2013, 10:55 AM

Separate the VHF dipole assembly from the DB4e and adjust/install them independently if that's what is needed.

Attics can be "black holes" for reception, so you need to think flexibly.

Jdruding · 3-Dec-2013, 1:59 PM

Thanks ADTech! If I separate the C2V from the DB4e, do I need to reattach the dipole to the "cage" that came with the C2V or can I mount the dipole direct to the mast without the cage? I'm not sure if the C2V, with the cage, will fit on the mast with DB4e....

ADTech · 3-Dec-2013, 4:41 PM

The black wire reflector screen is unused in your situation. You can remove it or leave it as you see fit.

Here, check out this tech tip: https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/...20antennas.pdf

Jdruding · 15-Dec-2013, 5:52 PM

Just wanted to check in with an update. I split out out the DB4e from the dipole as I mentioned and still have the same issues. I also confirmed it is not related to my Tivo because when i am having issues, i checked my TV tuner and was having the same issues. So folks thought trees might be the issue. It seems my only option at this point is mounting it on my roof? Any one have any other suggestions? Do you think another 10 ft or so will make that big of a difference or should I cut my losses and return everything? At 30 miles away, i never expected to have these types of issues, especially with an antenna that supposedly works up to 70 miles...

15-Dec-2013, 6:13 PM

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Combining antennas with reversed splitter will cause reception problems.

I recommend close attention to what Jdruding says is doing and happening.

And what is recommended for help with reception.

And what Jdruding's respond and actual action is.

Jdruding · 16-Dec-2013, 1:45 PM

Teleview, just so I understand, are you thinking there is an issue with the combiner? I can try removing the combiner and just use the DB4e to see if I can isolate that as a possible problem. Is that what you were recommending?

ADTech · 16-Dec-2013, 3:40 PM

FYI, the combiner included with the VHF kit is NOT a reversed splitter, it is a UVSJ.

What are you you using for an amplifier? Have you tried a "no amplifier" configuration?

16-Dec-2013, 4:58 PM

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Attics and the inside of buildings Are Not a reception friendly environment and Never Will BE a reception friendly environment.

So that The DB4e has the best possible reception location without the obstructions and Interference of the roof and building.

I recommend to reduce confusion install the DB4e , as the DB4e original came , without the add on parts of the CS2V ""reflector"".

I Recommend install the the DB4e - Above the Peak of the Roof - in and of - such a manner that the roof and building and chimney/s and etc. , are not , obstructing , impeding , interfering , blocking , reception to the , North West , West , South West.

As much as possible , locate the DB4e , that is above the roof , away from the trees and other obstructions to the , North West , West , South West.

Aim the DB4e at about 280 degree magnetic compass direction.

Here is how to aim antennas , http://www.kyes.com/antenna/pointing/pointing.html.

Use a Real and Actual magnetic compass to aim antenna.

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As a test to find the best reception with/by antenna aim and antenna location above the roof.

Connect a New Continues length of RG6 coax with the Compression type connectors on the ends of the coax , Run the coax from the DB4e antenna through a open door or window , direct , to 1 Tv.

Most Digital Tv's have a Signal Strength Meter and some Digital Tv's also have a Signal Quality Meter , to use to adjust the DB4e antenna for best reception.

Do not have any parts of a signal amplifier connected.

No splitters.

No coax grounding couplers.

No etc. .
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It is the DB4e antenna connected to the Continues length of coax direct to 1 Tv.

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Digital Broadcast Tv Tuners can develop - Digital Glitches - that are not cleared out with simple channel scans.

To clear tuner do Double Rescan

http://www.wchstv.com/DoubleReScanAlert.pdf.

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What is reception like now??