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Old 19-Oct-2016, 10:18 PM   #1
Fin745
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Join Date: Oct 2016
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Signal improvement?

I'm looking to try to get 35.1 with any internal antenna if possible.

I'm in an apartment and moving which is why I want to go with internal for now.

http://www.tvfool.com/?option=com_wr...e2cbbca1c9ce45

if not then improve the Signal with ABC,CBS,NBC,FOX. I'm still getting drop outs.

My Antenna is Mohu Leaf 50


My TVturner is https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0...?ie=UTF8&psc=1


Thanks
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Old 23-Oct-2016, 6:47 PM   #2
rabbit73
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Welcome, Fin745

Reception indoors can be difficult. Your tvfool report shows very strong signals, but it assumes your antenna will be outside and in the clear.

Are you using your Mohu Leaf 50 with or without the amplifier?

What floor is your apartment on?

What side of the building is your apartment on?

Do you have a window that faces SE or NW?

When are you moving, and what will the new location be like? I'm thinking about equipment that you buy now, being used there.

Without any further information, I suggest the Antennas Direct C2V antenna. It is a directional antenna, so it must be aimed at the transmitter.

KMYS would be a real long shot, because it is much weaker than your local channels. It would require a high gain UHF antenna aimed at 297 degrees magnetic. You probably would not be able to use a preamp because it would be overloaded by your local channels.

To make a more accurate analysis, I would need to look at a satellite view of your building. You would have to do it with the tvfool interactive map or give me the coordinates in a PM. It would look something like this:

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Last edited by rabbit73; 23-Oct-2016 at 7:33 PM.
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Old 23-Oct-2016, 8:24 PM   #3
Fin745
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rabbit73 View Post
Welcome, Fin745

Reception indoors can be difficult. Your tvfool report shows very strong signals, but it assumes your antenna will be outside and in the clear.

Are you using your Mohu Leaf 50 with or without the amplifier?

What floor is your apartment on?

What side of the building is your apartment on?

Do you have a window that faces SE or NW?
Right Now I'm using it without an amplifier. I've tried with an amplifier, but that caused more drop outs for the channels I can get.

I'm on the first floor and I'm on the SW side of the complex.

Yes, all my windows face NW.

I'm not moving until April of 2017 so I don't have an place in mind yet so I just pointed that out as the reason I didn't or wasn't looking for an outside door antenna.

I PM'ed the info you asked for.

Thanks again for all of your help.

Last edited by Fin745; 23-Oct-2016 at 8:42 PM.
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Old 24-Oct-2016, 12:41 AM   #4
rabbit73
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Thank you for the additional information. I think you must have used the bird's eye view



instead of the vertical



In any case, it looks like your local strong signals have to go through the building to get to your antenna. The C2V would still be suitable. Try different locations in your apartment, extending the RG6 coax if necessary.

If you put a high gain UHF antenna like a DB4e in a NW window (no metal screen or low-E glass) for KMYS, the signal might be blocked by the building across the parking lot. It's up to you if you want to experiment.
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File Type: jpg Fin745TVFmap4.JPG (83.7 KB, 757 views)
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Last edited by rabbit73; 24-Oct-2016 at 1:06 AM.
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Old 25-Oct-2016, 1:32 AM   #5
Fin745
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So I picked up the C2V today and so far it's working perfectly. I was wondering as I said in April 2017 I'm going to be moving, so before I asked here I also ordered the Winegard FreeVision FV-30BB which I'm going to return if you have a better antenna in mind at my possible new place.

Here is one of my perspective places to move.
http://www.tvfool.com/?option=com_wr...dfaf2cd436ecd7

coordinates are 29.541123,-98.409196

I'm going to asked to be placed on the first floor and was wondering would the C2V work there or would the FV-30BB or something better? I guess what I'm asking is should I return the FV-30BB or when I maybe/might move in buy a different antenna?


Thanks.

Last edited by Fin745; 25-Oct-2016 at 1:36 AM.
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Old 25-Oct-2016, 2:25 PM   #6
rabbit73
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I'm glad that the C2V is working for you.

The signals at the new location are a little less strong; in particular KLRN PBS 9 and KSAT ABC 12. KCWX MyN 8 is a lot weaker. KMYS CW 32 (35.1) is a lot stronger, but still in a different direction.

I think the C2V would be better than the FV-30BB at the new location, but indoor signals are difficult to predict because of differences in construction. The C2V has more UHF gain than the FV-30BB, but about the same gain on VHF-High for PBS and ABC.

It looks like the signals will still have to go through the building to get to your antenna. As before, try different locations. The antenna aim should be about 150 degrees magnetic.

Trees block TV signals.



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Last edited by rabbit73; 25-Oct-2016 at 2:44 PM.
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Old 7-Nov-2016, 6:42 PM   #7
Fin745
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rabbit73 View Post
I'm glad that the C2V is working for you.
So I thought everything was good, but I was wrong. The issue I'm having is drop outs on channel 12.1(KSAT). I've tried moving the antenna around, but my signal stays 48-50% and that's the only channel that is pixelating. SNR(db) is 271 from my TV.

I'm not sure what to do next.
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Old 7-Nov-2016, 11:06 PM   #8
rabbit73
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Sorry you are having trouble.
Quote:
I'm having is drop outs on channel 12.1(KSAT)......my signal stays 48-50%.....SNR(db) is 271 from my TV
That SNR must be 27.1 dB.
Do you receive the other VHF channels? What are their signal strength and SNR readings on your TBS tuner?
KLRN PBS real channel 9, virtual channel 8.1
KCWX is listed as 8, but that is wrong; it's on ch 5
KQVE-LD Daystar real channel 13, virtual channel 46.1

What readings do you get on the UHF channels?

You did the right thing moving the antenna to different locations because there are a lot of multipath reflections indoors.

You have some strong local FM transmitters that might affect VHF reception.
http://www.fmfool.com/modeling/tmp/7...0/Radar-FM.png

It might be worth the trouble to try an FM filter in the coax.
https://www.antennasdirect.com/store...on_filter.html

A HLSJ can also be used as an FM trap, because it blocks everything below CH 7 including the FM band using the high and common ports.
http://www.solidsignal.com/pview.asp?p=zhlsj

I'm not certain if your tuner is being overloaded. The signals inside might be stronger than I think. You might try inserting a splitter in the coax as an attenuator an see how the reception and readings change. A 2-way splitter gives 3.5 dB attenuation; a 4-way, 7 dB.

The C2V VHF dipole has less gain than the UHF loops. It is also bi-directional which means it might pick up multipath reflections from the rear.



You can cover a piece of cardboard with aluminum foil and use it as a reflector about 14 inches behind the VHF dipole to make it more directional and have a little more gain. If that doesn't work for 12.1, the only other thing I can think of is to use a separate VHF antenna combined with the C2, instead of the dipole, that is more directional and has more gain.

Do you have a TV that you can try with the antenna instead of the TBS tuner card?
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Last edited by rabbit73; 10-Nov-2016 at 6:06 PM.
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Old 8-Nov-2016, 1:43 AM   #9
Fin745
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rabbit73 View Post
KLRN PBS real channel 9, virtual channel 8.1
KCWX is listed as 8, but that is wrong; it's on ch 5
KQVE-LD Daystar real channel 13, virtual channel 46.1
KLRN is 9.1 and I'm getting 54% and SNR is 24.6

I'm not able to get 46.1 and KCWX is just as strong as WOAI


WOIA 4.1 I'm able to get with no issue Signal is 47% with 31.1 SNR

KENS is 5.1 and the Signal strength is 53% with 28.1 SNR

My UHF channels are 29.1 KABB and it's Signal strength is 56% with 28.1 SNR

KWEX-DT Signal strength is 50% with 29.4 SNR

KVDA is 60.1 and I'm getting 55% and 28.1 SNR


Thanks for the info I ordered a FM Band Rejection Filter from antennasdirect to see how that helps.



Edit:
Quote:
Originally Posted by rabbit73 View Post
Do you have a TV that you can try with the antenna instead of the TBS tuner card?
The Signal Diagnostics are from a TV and I see the same pixelation.

Last edited by Fin745; 8-Nov-2016 at 3:50 AM.
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Old 9-Nov-2016, 10:50 PM   #10
rabbit73
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It is the real channel number, not the virtual channel number, that determines what antenna is needed. KENS, virtual channel 5.1 is on real channel 39, so it is a UHF channel, not a VHF channel.

VHF-Low, real channels 2-6
VHF-High, real channels 7-13
UHF, real channels 14-51

Thanks for the additional readings. KSAT 12.1 seems to have readings similar to the other channels, so the problem might be multipath reflections and not signal strength.

Signal strength readings are relative, so I don't know the normal range for good signals with your TV.

The Diagnostics Screen for my Sony KDL22L5000 goes from 55 to 79.



Bad signal with picture freeze, SNR below 15 dB, and errors:



Good signal:



My newer Sony KDL32R400A has a much wider range of signal strength readings:



I was going to suggest a medium gain amp like the CM 3410, but you said a preamp didn't help.

If grounding the coax shield, an FM trap, and a reflector behind the dipole don't help, the only thing left would be a VHF-High antenna with more gain to replace the vhf dipole kit.
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__________________
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Last edited by rabbit73; 10-Nov-2016 at 12:42 AM.
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Old 11-Nov-2016, 6:42 PM   #11
WIRELESS ENGINEER
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Buy a 4 bay bowtie antenna
It will easily outperform all indoor antennas on UHF and its still small enough to use indoors

Last edited by WIRELESS ENGINEER; 11-Nov-2016 at 7:20 PM.
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Old 11-Nov-2016, 7:13 PM   #12
Fin745
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WIRELESS ENGINEER View Post
Buy a 4 bay bowtie antenna
It will easily outperform all indoor antennas and its still small enough to use indoors
Thanks! I'll check that out if the FM Band Rejection Filter doesn't works.
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Old 11-Nov-2016, 7:23 PM   #13
WIRELESS ENGINEER
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Sorry, I didn't notice the need for vhf channels too
The 4 bay bowtie is one of the best for UHF but performs poorly on vhf
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