VHF + UHF for attic install @ 50 miles

[thrasherx]

http://www.tvfool.com/?option=com_wr...e1c631ed4ea635

I'm looking to pick up the network stations (ABC, CBS, FOX, NBC) from Washington DC. I LIVE ROUGHLY 50 miles away. The antennas will be in the attic of an2 story house. Our lot is free of trees, though the neighborhood is surrounded by them (400 feet from my house). The antennas will be aimed through the side of the house (OSB and shingles).

My first attempt (Winegard FreeVision with ~+17dB Winegard active amp) yielded a few channels, all with weak signals. I researched a bit more and recently purchased a DB4e. This gets me an acceptable UHF signal strengths and quality without splitting. Many of the channels I want are in the VHF range. I purchased a Channel Plus 2532 2-way combiner to combine VHF and UHF which will feed into the amp then to the splitter.

Question 1)
In your opinion, will the Antennacraft Yagi HD Antenna Y5-7-13 get me a decent signal or would the 10 foot model be necessary? I know the 10 foot has a better advertised range, but I's hate to lose that much space, even in the attic.

Question 2)
Would the DB8e offer significantly improve signal strength over the DB4e if I leave both antennas pointed at D.C.?

Thanks for taking time to help a newb.

[ADTech]

You only have two VHF stations, channels 7 & 9, from DC. The rest, regardless of displayed channel number, are UHF stations. The additional high-VHF antenna would be needed only for these two stations as the DB4e (nor the DB8e) would be expected to receive the VHF channels reliably, if at all.

I purchased a Channel Plus 2532 2-way combiner to combine VHF and UHF

This is the incorrect device for this task, it is only a simple splitter/combiner. The correct device is called a UVSJ.

will the Antennacraft Yagi HD Antenna Y5-7-13 get me a decent signal or would the 10 foot model be necessary?

The larger antenna would improve signal strength and noise margin by several dB. Whether that would make an appreciable enough difference in your attic to make it worthwhile is impossible to predict.

Would the DB8e offer significantly improve signal strength over the DB4e if I leave both antennas pointed at D.C.?

I'd usually expect a 2 to 2.5 dB improvement in received signals strength and noise margin improvement. Whether that would make an appreciable enough difference in your attic to make it worthwhile is impossible to predict.

Your TVFool plot suggests that an attic installation will be inadequate at this location. You may wish to reconsider your choice if you find the attic location's reception lacking.

[thrasherx]

Thanks! I just bought a UVSJ.

Maybe I'll splurge on the 10 foot VHF antenna. Those 2 stations are pretty important.

As for the DB8e, I should first shorten my (I have roughly 50 feet extra) and add in a 2-way splitter. Maybe I can improve the signal by aiming it slightly better. Using a compass, it looks pretty close to the magnetic heading. How directional is the DB4e?

Thanks!

[ADTech]

I'd use a pre-amp anyway which will make the extra coax length and splitter mostly irrelevant.

The tech data sheet is on our website, under the "Documents" tab on the DB4e's product page.

[thrasherx]

So I ended up purchasing the 10 foot Antennacraft Yagi, and a UVSJ. I hooked up the DB4e, and was fairly impressed at the signal quality. The 20 dB amp also delivered >= 75% signal strength to my HDHomeRun box.

I thought I'd improve it even more by removing ~50 ft. of extra RG-6. After shortening an re-terminating one end of the cable, the signal seemed to drop a bit. It dropped again after shortening the other end. I need to go back and investigate my termination job, but there isn't much to go wrong.

Using RG-6 strippers, I inserted the cable, rotated the stripper around a bunch of times, exposing the center conductor, for 1 cm, and the shielding for another 1 cm. I peeled back the shielding and twisted a connector all the way on (until I could see the nylon insulation was flush with the opening of the connector). I then used the crimper to compress the connector barrel onto itself. Mechanically, it feels solid.

I'll have to sleep on it. Thanks for your advice!

[GroundUrMast]

I find the signal quality indicated by the HDHR tuner to be the most relevant and helpful guide for fine-tuning aim.

[stringpower]

Hey thrasherx, I have the same problem. Moved to Maryland, can't watch the redskins game because they are not broadcasted where I live. I can't put the antenna on my roof because of my strict HOA.

I might need to install the antenna on the attic also.

- Do you mind letting me know where you purchased your equipment?
- Do you have any links for the products?
- Could you take some pictures of your setup so I have an idea as to what I am dealing with?

Here are my tvfool reports:
http://www.tvfool.com/?option=com_wr...d243e32f8a0950

I'm trying to catch FOX 5 DC (WTTG 36) and NBC (WRC-DT 48)


Thanks so much in advance thrasherx. I really appreciate your help.

[stvcmty]

Originally Posted by thrasherx

So I ended up purchasing the 10 foot Antennacraft Yagi, and a UVSJ. I hooked up the DB4e, and was fairly impressed at the signal quality. The 20 dB amp also delivered >= 75% signal strength to my HDHomeRun box.

I thought I'd improve it even more by removing ~50 ft. of extra RG-6. After shortening an re-terminating one end of the cable, the signal seemed to drop a bit. It dropped again after shortening the other end. I need to go back and investigate my termination job, but there isn't much to go wrong.

Using RG-6 strippers, I inserted the cable, rotated the stripper around a bunch of times, exposing the center conductor, for 1 cm, and the shielding for another 1 cm. I peeled back the shielding and twisted a connector all the way on (until I could see the nylon insulation was flush with the opening of the connector). I then used the crimper to compress the connector barrel onto itself. Mechanically, it feels solid.

I'll have to sleep on it. Thanks for your advice!

Is the HDHR the only thing you have hooked to the antennas? Are your antennas still in the attic? Are you still using the Winegard preamp?

If the HDHR is the only device you are using with the antennas and the antennas are in the attic, put the HDHR by the antennas, and loose the amp. So, UHF antenna, VHF antenna => UVSJ => HDHR. That will get you the lowest noise signal into the HDHR possible. (Unless the noise of the preamp is less than the noise of the first transistor in the HDHR.)

[stvcmty]

Originally Posted by stringpower

Hey thrasherx, I have the same problem. Moved to Maryland, can't watch the redskins game because they are not broadcasted where I live. I can't put the antenna on my roof because of my strict HOA.

I might need to install the antenna on the attic also.

- Do you mind letting me know where you purchased your equipment?
- Do you have any links for the products?
- Could you take some pictures of your setup so I have an idea as to what I am dealing with?

Here are my tvfool reports:
http://www.tvfool.com/?option=com_wr...d243e32f8a0950


I'm trying to catch FOX 5 DC (WTTG 36) and NBC (WRC-DT 48)


Thanks so much in advance thrasherx. I really appreciate your help.

Stringpower, your TV fool plot is nothing like the OP’s, you should really start a new thread rather than hijack the OP’s thread.
Also, the FCC protects your right to put up an antenna. http://www.fcc.gov/guides/over-air-r...n-devices-rule

[No static at all]

Originally Posted by stringpower

I can't put the antenna on my roof because of my strict HOA.

The HOA cannot prevent you from mounting an appropriate antenna on the roof. They want you to think that, but fortunately the law is on your side.

Originally Posted by stringpower

I might need to install the antenna on the attic also.

An attic antenna will likely not provide reliable DC reception with such weak signals. If frequent pixelation/signal interruptions don't bother you, then the attic might work. Found this antenna on Craigslist near you that should work well if mounted outside.

[stringpower]

Originally Posted by stvcmty

Stringpower, your TV fool plot is nothing like the OP’s, you should really start a new thread rather than hijack the OP’s thread.
Also, the FCC protects your right to put up an antenna. http://www.fcc.gov/guides/over-air-r...n-devices-rule

My apologies stvcmty. I will start a new thread as you advised. putting an antenna in the attic seems to have worked for thrasherx so I wanted to get his feedback. I live 28 miles from the tower that is transmitting and thrasherx lives 50 miles away so I was hoping that it would work for me too.

[stringpower]

Originally Posted by No static at all

The HOA cannot prevent you from mounting an appropriate antenna on the roof. They want you to think that, but fortunately the law is on your side.

An attic antenna will likely not provide reliable DC reception with such weak signals. If frequent pixelation/signal interruptions don't bother you, then the attic might work. Found this antenna on Craigslist near you that should work well if mounted outside.

Hello No static at all, Thanks for the tip. I'm still debating wheter I will install it or not. My dad lives in Northern Virginia so I was thinking on hooking up one of those boxes that lets you watch tv using internet.

[thrasherx]

I've been trying to narrow down the source of my sporadic reception. I'm going through different iterations of antenna(s), amp/no-amp, and cables. The attached graph is for the UHF+VHF > Amp > 80 ft. coax > HDHomerun.



There are three things that I've noticed.

1) Univision is significantly stronger than its peers, even though it's physically near the other towers.

2) Fox has completely dropped off (no signal quality). Maybe I damaged a specific frequency the amp at some point?

3) I'm worried that I overtightened the VHF antenna wing nuts where the cable attaches. I haven't gotten much out of it since i loosened it all the way and replaced the transformer.

Any help or advice would be appreciated!

[Ben Myers]

Originally Posted by thrasherx

I've been trying to narrow down the source of my sporadic reception. I'm going through different iterations of antenna(s), amp/no-amp, and cables. The attached graph is for the UHF+VHF > Amp > 80 ft. coax > HDHomerun.



There are three things that I've noticed.

1) Univision is significantly stronger than its peers, even though it's physically near the other towers.

According to www.rabbitears.info, WFDC is using one million watts effective radiated power. I live in Smithsburg Maryland, fifty-five miles northeast of the station, blocked by a ridge hundreds of feet higher than my antenna and I can still receive it.

2) Fox has completely dropped off (no signal quality). Maybe I damaged a specific frequency the amp at some point?

Remove the splitter, connect the UHF antenna by itself and try to get WTTG back. If you get it, reattach the VHF side.

3) I'm worried that I overtightened the VHF antenna wing nuts where the cable attaches. I haven't gotten much out of it since i loosened it all the way and replaced the transformer.

Any help or advice would be appreciated!

Try reversing the change you made to the VHF antenna, if possible.

[GroundUrMast]

Are the antennas still in the attic? If so, you can expect reception to change significantly as the moisture content of the roofing system varies. The changes will not always affect evey signal the same. Even if it has not rained, the moisture levels in the wood and other materials can change dramatically as the temperature and humidity varies.

Your original report suggests that an attic installation is not going to work well for most who try it. The weak signal levels and edge path conditions are indications that you would be forced to consider mounting outside, clear of obstructions.

The HDHR and it's GUI make a very good signal meter... 'Signal Strength' is only a secondary parameter... Work at maximizing the 'Signal Quality' parameter at a stable value. In my experience, a high 'Signal Strength' is of no use if the 'Signal Quality' is unstable or below 60 per the HDHR.

[No static at all]

If you must stay in the attic, the only antenna I would even consider is a 91-XG.

Also, the USB based tuners I have used don't deal with strong signals in the mix as well as conventional TV tuners. Have you tested reception with a regular TV?

Even now, far from strong signals, my USB tuner breaks up much worse/more often than my LCD TV with low flying aircraft anywhere near the house.