TV Fool  

Go Back   TV Fool > Over The Air Services > Help With Reception

Notices

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old 6-Jan-2013, 12:36 PM   #1
barce
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2013
Posts: 9
New to this

I have been a loyal cable subscriber for a couple of decades now and shutter to think how much money I have thrown their way.

I am looking to make the switch to OTA but am unsure which antenna(s) and configuration to purchase.

I live in a townhouse and the installation will be in the attic, approximately 25 feet above the ground. This is my signal analysis:

http://www.tvfool.com/?option=com_wr...c84f04dae68d57

I also live about 70 yards west of some high tension wires and was wondering if this may effect my reception.

Any assistance would be much appreciated.

Regards,
-J
barce is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 7-Jan-2013, 3:55 PM   #2
elmo
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 2010
Posts: 232
The lines may be an issue, but it's really hard to tell until you actually try an antenna.

Attic installs can be problematic due to signal reflection and degradation. How's the view towards the west, at 253 degrees on a compass, from the attic? If you have to go through other townhomes/roofs/etc, this could be tricky.
elmo is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 7-Jan-2013, 4:36 PM   #3
Stereocraig
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2012
Posts: 465
While I think that a metal tower in direct LOS would cause some blockage, I don't think the lines themselves would.

Don't be too disappointed, if an attic install provides inferior results.
Maybe some people will recommend it, but I never would.
Stereocraig is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 7-Jan-2013, 5:06 PM   #4
barce
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2013
Posts: 9
Quote:
Originally Posted by elmo View Post
The lines may be an issue, but it's really hard to tell until you actually try an antenna.

Attic installs can be problematic due to signal reflection and degradation. How's the view towards the west, at 253 degrees on a compass, from the attic? If you have to go through other townhomes/roofs/etc, this could be tricky.

My view towards 253 degrees is quite clear. There is another row of townhouses across the street, but aside form that there is nothing. The wires run from about 70 degrees to 160 degrees.
barce is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 7-Jan-2013, 5:07 PM   #5
barce
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2013
Posts: 9
Quote:
Originally Posted by Stereocraig View Post
While I think that a metal tower in direct LOS would cause some blockage, I don't think the lines themselves would.

Don't be too disappointed, if an attic install provides inferior results.
Maybe some people will recommend it, but I never would.
You mention inferior results... can this be overcome with a stronger/larger antenna or amplifier?
barce is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 7-Jan-2013, 8:08 PM   #6
Stereocraig
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2012
Posts: 465
Amplifier? no. Larger antenna? Doubtful. Some people recommend the Terk HDTVi.

With all the blockage and bouncing signals, it's unpredictable.

My favorite analogy: Think about how it sounds when you go see a band and go into the bathroom. Multipath and blocked signals are like that, except w/o the smell.
Stereocraig is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 7-Jan-2013, 9:46 PM   #7
barce
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2013
Posts: 9
Quote:
Originally Posted by Stereocraig View Post
Amplifier? no. Larger antenna? Doubtful. Some people recommend the Terk HDTVi.

With all the blockage and bouncing signals, it's unpredictable.

My favorite analogy: Think about how it sounds when you go see a band and go into the bathroom. Multipath and blocked signals are like that, except w/o the smell.
Great analogy... no matter how big your "ears" are or how loud you make it, the sound in the bathroom still sounds awful.

Thanks for that!
barce is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 8-Jan-2013, 6:10 PM   #8
barce
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2013
Posts: 9
Antenna and set-up

Though I understand the previous threads, I think I am stuck with an attic install. The attic is large and has high ceilings, allowing me to get about 25' above the ground. The roof is shingled with wood frame construction.

Can you recommend an antenna? I have been looking on Channel Master but am unsure as to how "much" antenna I need, if I need a rotor, amplifier, etc. Will I need multiple antennas or additional hardware to maximize potential reception?

I would guess from elmo's post that I would aim the antenna at 253 degrees. Will this pick up both Philly and NY stations?

Thanks for your guidance.

Regards,
-J
barce is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 8-Jan-2013, 6:27 PM   #9
GroundUrMast
Moderator
 
GroundUrMast's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: Greater Seattle Area
Posts: 4,681
If the attic is your only option, go for it. I would start by measuring... how long an antenna can you accommodate? How wide?

You'll certainly get many signals, but how each is affected by the antenna location is only going to be known once the antenna is installed.

You mention Channel Master... If it would fit, the CM-3671 is not overkill in an attic.

If you're fighting reflections (AKA multipath) or weak signal levels, a big directional antenna is the first and best tool to use.
GroundUrMast is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 8-Jan-2013, 6:35 PM   #10
Stereocraig
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2012
Posts: 465
A rotor is always a plus, but a bit inconvenient.
Two antenna w/ an A/B switch on separate runs, is also an option.
If your tuner doesn't allow for ADDING channels, another option, would be to join 2 identical antenna pointed accordingly.
Stereocraig is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 8-Jan-2013, 7:30 PM   #11
barce
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2013
Posts: 9
Quote:
Originally Posted by Stereocraig View Post
A rotor is always a plus, but a bit inconvenient.
Two antenna w/ an A/B switch on separate runs, is also an option.
If your tuner doesn't allow for ADDING channels, another option, would be to join 2 identical antenna pointed accordingly.
Can the signals of 2 antennas be combined using a splitter in reverse?
barce is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 8-Jan-2013, 10:14 PM   #12
GroundUrMast
Moderator
 
GroundUrMast's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: Greater Seattle Area
Posts: 4,681
UH Oh... GUM is going to go long winded...

Quote:
Can the signals of 2 antennas be combined using a splitter in reverse?
Yes, BUT...

If you are interested in joining two identical antennas for the purpose of altering/improving the reception pattern of the antenna, a reversed splitter can work. In such case, the length of the coax from each antenna to the splitter is critical and based on the pattern you want to achieve. This also tends to make the whole combination ideal for only one channel. http://forum.tvfool.com/showthread.php?t=1024

If you want to receive many signals from different directions, you may get some improvement on one or more channels, but you'll also make others worse. You are dealing with many signals that will interact to add or subtract from one another depending on the amplitude and phase of each as they arrive at the combiner.

Consider too, if you double the power of a signal (in this case by adding the power of two antennas together in phase) you have a gain of 3 dB. But, the combiner/splitter has 3.5 to 4.0 dB of insertion loss... So you end up with less total power at the combined output. If you add the sources together, but they're 180 out of phase, they will cancel each other leaving you with virtually no signal at the combiner output.

But hey, if all you have spent is the price of a passive 2-way splitter, not much lost in the experiment.
GroundUrMast is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 9-Jan-2013, 2:59 AM   #13
teleview
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Many Digital Broadcast Tv stations/channels will be received if antenna is above the roof.
_____________

Attics Are Not a reception friendly environment and Never Will Be a reception friendly environment.

Reason: signal attenuation and signal reflections bouncing all around , multipath.

___________________________________

Install a Winegard HD7082P in the attic aimed at about 252 degree magnetic compass direction.

Here is how to aim antennas , http://www.kyes.com/antenna/pointing/pointing.html.

Use no preamplifier.

For 1 Tv connected use no splitter.

For 2 Tv's connected use a common simple 2 way splitter.

For 3 Tv's connected use a common simple 3 way splitter.

If the HD7082P antenna will not fit in the attic , install a Winegard HD7000R in the attic aimed at about 252 degree magnetic compass direction.

Here is how to aim antennas , http://www.kyes.com/antenna/pointing/pointing.html.

Use no preamplifier.

For 1 Tv connected use a common simple 2 way splitter.

For 3 Tv's connected use a common simple 3 way splitter.

_________________

If you own the roof and direct control of the roof of your Town Home then here is the Federal Antenna Law that says Yes you can install antennas above the roof of your Town Home in such a manner as to have reliable reception of the Tv stations/channels.

http://www.fcc.gov/mb/facts/otard.html.

For a above the roof antenna install I recommend the Winegard HD7000R antenna.

Here are some above the roof antenna mounts , http://www.ronard.com/909911.html , http://www.ronard.com/ychim.html , http://www.ronard.com , http://www.ronard.com/34424560.html if using the eave mount use the #4560.

Buy the ronard antenna mounts at solidsignal by typing the word ronard in the solidsignal search box.

Here are places to buy antennas and etc. , http://www.solidsignal.com , http://www.amazon.com , http://www.winegarddirect.com.

___________________________________

Tv antenna rotators Are Never Reception Friendly , Must Wait for Antenna to Rotate and there --> Will Be Domestic Issues about the direction the antenna is aimed.
___________________________________

As always , trees and tree leaves will , reflect , reduce , block , Digital Tv reception and so do buildings and other obstructions including your own roof and house.

It is best to locate the antenna at a location that has the least amount to no amount of obstructions of any type or kind in the directions of reception including your own roof and house.

The Tv/s Must Channel Scan for the Digital Broadcast Tv Channels , often named the 'Air Channels' or 'Antenna Channels' in the Tv setup menu because the Tv transmissions travel through the air from the transmitting antenna to the receiving antenna.

Some Digital Tv's automatic channel scan for Cable Tv Channels.

Go into the Tv setup menu and select , 'Air Channels' / 'Antenna Channels'.

DO NOT Channel Scan for Cable Tv Channels!!.

Last edited by teleview; 26-Jan-2013 at 8:18 PM.
  Reply With Quote
Old 9-Jan-2013, 10:54 AM   #14
barce
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2013
Posts: 9
Thank you!! I believe a Winegard HD7082P will fit in my attic. It seems that I see Winegard and ChannelMaster listed the most for antennas, on the boards I have read.

I only saw the Winegard HD7084P on the Winegard website, but Amazon sells the Winegard HD7082P. Is there a significant difference and should I purchase from the manufacturer or go with Amazon?

Thanks again, EVERYONE, for your guidance!!
barce is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 9-Jan-2013, 12:48 PM   #15
elmo
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 2010
Posts: 232
I say, purchase where you get the best combo of price and service. I've purchased antenna gear from Amazon before. They are pretty good about returns.
elmo is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 9-Jan-2013, 2:56 PM   #16
teleview
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Solidsignal has the HD7082P.
  Reply With Quote
Old 10-Jan-2013, 10:08 AM   #17
barce
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2013
Posts: 9
Quote:
Originally Posted by teleview View Post
Solidsignal has the HD7082P.
Purchased! Thanks!!
barce is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 26-Jan-2013, 1:17 PM   #18
barce
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2013
Posts: 9
Free TV

Thanks all for your input.

I have installed my Winegard antenna in my attic and aimed at 253 degrees. I get very good reception. I need to tweak it a little but am extremely pleased with what I see.

I was very fortunate in that I have two oval shaped ducts that run from the attic to my basement, which is where my media center is located. This made running the coax very easy. Cable TV will be shut off in about a month.

Thanks again,
-J
barce is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 26-Jan-2013, 8:32 PM   #19
teleview
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Do not have any type or kind of , pay cable tv , pay cable internet , pay cable phone , or any other active pay cable service connected on to a coax that the Tv antenna reception on a coax.

Pay cable and antenna channels can not be on the same coax.

Must run separate coaxes.

Yes , the coaxes that are in/on the house can be used for the antenna system , but do not mix any cable services and antenna channels on the same coax.

___________________________

The HD7082P antenna is aimed to the south west , in the attic , Phiadelphia , South West.

Are.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/WPVI-TV.

http://en.wikipedia.com/wiki/WACP.

Being received??

________________________________________________________________________________

With the HD7082P antenna in the attic.

Are any of the New York Digital Tv stations in the opposite direction such as ,

WNJB - PBS.

WWOR - MyNetwork.

WABC - ABC.

WXTV - Univision.

WCBS - CBS.

WNYW - FOX.

Being received??

Last edited by teleview; 26-Jan-2013 at 11:08 PM.
  Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmarks

Tags
antenna choice, configuration, installation, setup

Go Back   TV Fool > Over The Air Services > Help With Reception


Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off




All times are GMT. The time now is 2:24 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8
Copyright ©2000 - 2018, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Copyright © TV Fool, LLC