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Old 16-Dec-2016, 7:34 PM   #1
protivakid
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WBTS WHDH - Anyone else in MA about to lose their NBC?

As we know, as of Jan 1st NBC is switching to WBTS which has significantly less coverage than WHDH. Last month WBTS started to operate with some test programming. I can't even get a blip of a signal in 01535.

Anyone else in the MA area about to lose their NBC coverage?
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Old 16-Dec-2016, 9:02 PM   #2
Tower Guy
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Try WMFP. It was announced recently that there will be an NBC simulcast on subchannel 60.5.
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Old 16-Dec-2016, 11:36 PM   #3
rabbit73
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Quote:
I can't even get a blip of a signal in 01535.

Anyone else in the MA area about to lose their NBC coverage?
Aren't there any other options for NBC? What does your tvfool report look like?
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Old 17-Dec-2016, 12:03 AM   #4
protivakid
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tower Guy View Post
Try WMFP. It was announced recently that there will be an NBC simulcast on subchannel 60.5.
No luck with WMFP either.

Quote:
Originally Posted by rabbit73 View Post
Aren't there any other options for NBC? What does your tvfool report look like?
Here is my report.

http://www.tvfool.com/?option=com_wr...dfafef7fefe27b

Contrary to the results I can NOT get WWLP at my current height even if I point my AntennaCraft (Y5-7-13) right toward it. There is also a hill directly that way. Normally I use this VHF only antenna for WNAC and keep it aimed that way.

The report is also off with most of the stations in yellow other than WUNI I can not pull in even rotating my antenna. Stations in red on the report like WCVB & WBZ come in the best and are generous with aiming.

The only other NBC station that I can sometimes get is WJAR and that requires aiming my UHF antenna in the direction of WNAC and even then the signal is not consistent. I also lose the Boston stations like WCVB.

Think I will need to add a second UHF antenna and rig something up in the hopes of getting WJAR?

I am sure it will do little good but I plan to write to the FCC as well about this. I am pretty upset that I now may lose my NBC coverage.
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Old 17-Dec-2016, 12:37 AM   #5
rabbit73
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Thank you for the report. It is only resolved to block level. Small changes in location can often make a big difference in the report. Is it possible for you to do another report with exact address or coordinates? If I had a choice, I would want to look at a satellite view to see the green signal lines.

I see the problem with the hill when I click on a callsign in your report. You have a difficult location and I'm trying to figure out if any improvement is possible.

Where are your antennas located?

What is your UHF antenna?

Are you using a preamp?

Do you have a rotator?

Are there any trees or buildings in the signal path?

What equipment are you using for reception?
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Old 17-Dec-2016, 1:01 AM   #6
protivakid
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rabbit73 View Post
Thank you for the report. It is only resolved to block level. Small changes in location can often make a big difference in the report. Is it possible for you to do another report with exact address or coordinates? If I had a choice, I would want to look at a satellite view to see the green signal lines.

I see the problem with the hill when I click on a callsign in your report. You have a difficult location and I'm trying to figure out if any improvement is possible.

Where are your antennas located?

What is your UHF antenna?

Are you using a preamp?

Do you have a rotator?

Are there any trees or buildings in the signal path?

What equipment are you using for reception?
42._____,-72.____ is the location of my antenna. I didn't see a way to share the google map directly. It's about 30ft off the ground above the roof line.

I am using a Mohu Sky HD for a UFH antenna. Yes it's one of those all in one antennas that comes with the little power block and has the pre-amp built in. Until this NBC change this antenna has done really really well and my wife loved the size of it. She didn't want one of the typical style ones up on the roof and this worked great so I didn't argue.

Yes I put it on a rotator.

Trees are mostly on the western part of the house. All other sides have a good distance between any trees.

I have 4 different tvs in the house each of a different brand, Sony, LG, Samsung, & Sharp. I also have a distribution amp in the basement just after the two antennas UHF & VHF combine to a single wire but before the splitter that goes to each tv.

Last edited by protivakid; 17-Dec-2016 at 4:15 AM.
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Old 17-Dec-2016, 1:32 AM   #7
rabbit73
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Thank you for the coordinates. You can delete them to protect your identity if you wish.

This is the report for your antenna using coordinates:
http://www.tvfool.com/?option=com_wr...dfafc2e7234cbc
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Last edited by rabbit73; 17-Dec-2016 at 2:04 AM.
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Old 17-Dec-2016, 1:51 AM   #8
rabbit73
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Ah, yes; I see the trees to the west.



You are on the extreme fringe of coverage for WMFP. Note that only 143 kW out of 1000 kW ERP is sent in your direction:





You would need a high gain UHF antenna and a preamp for any chance at that.



It would probably help to tilt the front of the antenna up. The Antennas Direct 91XG and the Solid Signal HDB91X have the tilt feature. The DB8E has more gain for channel 18 with both panels aimed in the same direction, but it doesn't have a tilt adjustment; it would be a custom mod.

I see that rabbitears.info has the proposed change:
http://www.rabbitears.info/market.ph...&callsign=wmfp

wiki also mentions it:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/WMFP

I will study the other NBC alternatives when I have more time.
Attached Images
File Type: jpg protivakidTVFmap .jpg (147.9 KB, 650 views)
File Type: jpg protivakidTVFcovWMFP.JPG (95.2 KB, 657 views)
File Type: jpg protivakidTVFcovWMFPcu.JPG (113.4 KB, 650 views)
File Type: jpg protivakidTVFp2WMFP.JPG (110.2 KB, 674 views)
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Last edited by rabbit73; 17-Dec-2016 at 2:59 AM.
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Old 17-Dec-2016, 4:16 AM   #9
protivakid
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rabbit73 View Post
Ah, yes; I see the trees to the west.



You are on the extreme fringe of coverage for WMFP. Note that only 143 kW out of 1000 kW ERP is sent in your direction:





You would need a high gain UHF antenna and a preamp for any chance at that.



It would probably help to tilt the front of the antenna up. The Antennas Direct 91XG and the Solid Signal HDB91X have the tilt feature. The DB8E has more gain for channel 18 with both panels aimed in the same direction, but it doesn't have a tilt adjustment; it would be a custom mod.

I see that rabbitears.info has the proposed change:
http://www.rabbitears.info/market.ph...&callsign=wmfp

wiki also mentions it:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/WMFP

I will study the other NBC alternatives when I have more time.
Thanks for the suggestions. For the rabbitears link, is that just the NBC move I was referring to?
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Old 17-Dec-2016, 3:19 PM   #10
rabbit73
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Quote:
For the rabbitears link, is that just the NBC move I was referring to?
Yes, the rabbitears link and the Wiki link are about the WMFP change.
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Old 17-Dec-2016, 6:40 PM   #11
rabbit73
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Quote:
Contrary to the results I can NOT get WWLP at my current height even if I point my AntennaCraft (Y5-7-13) right toward it. There is also a hill directly that way. Normally I use this VHF only antenna for WNAC and keep it aimed that way.
Yes, you would think so. The tvfool report knows about the hill, but it doesn't know about the trees in the WWLP signal path. Trees block TV signals.
http://www.hdtvprimer.com/antennas/siting.html







That little hill only 0.3 mi away is a problem.



An MCM 30-2476 with the front end tilted up and a preamp might pick it up.
Attached Images
File Type: jpg protivakidTVFcovWWLP.JPG (94.4 KB, 619 views)
File Type: jpg protivakidTVFcovWWLPcu.JPG (58.9 KB, 615 views)
File Type: jpg protivakidTVFp2WWLP.JPG (106.3 KB, 611 views)
File Type: jpg protivakidTVFpathWWLP.JPG (79.7 KB, 617 views)
__________________
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Last edited by rabbit73; 17-Dec-2016 at 8:11 PM.
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Old 17-Dec-2016, 8:36 PM   #12
rabbit73
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Quote:
The only other NBC station that I can sometimes get is WJAR and that requires aiming my UHF antenna in the direction of WNAC and even then the signal is not consistent. I also lose the Boston stations like WCVB.
WJAR coverage:







Quote:
Think I will need to add a second UHF antenna and rig something up in the hopes of getting WJAR?
An Antennas Direct 91XG or a Solid Signal HDB91X with the front end tilted up and a preamp might work.
Attached Images
File Type: jpg protivakidTVFcovWJAR.JPG (96.2 KB, 625 views)
File Type: jpg protivakidTVFcovWJARcu.JPG (64.2 KB, 653 views)
File Type: jpg protivakidTVFp2WJAR.JPG (104.3 KB, 601 views)
__________________
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Last edited by rabbit73; 17-Dec-2016 at 9:01 PM.
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Old 19-Dec-2016, 8:31 PM   #13
protivakid
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rabbit73 View Post
Yes, you would think so. The tvfool report knows about the hill, but it doesn't know about the trees in the WWLP signal path. Trees block TV signals.
.
.
.
An MCM 30-2476 with the front end tilted up and a preamp might pick it up.
Is this better than the other VHF antenna I already have?


Quote:
Originally Posted by rabbit73 View Post
WJAR coverage:
.
.
.
An Antennas Direct 91XG or a Solid Signal HDB91X with the front end tilted up and a preamp might work.
I was actually able to pick up WJAR Saturday night however now today it is gone. Is there a decent way to combine the two different types of uhf antennas so I can keep the Mohu pointed toward boston and one of the above toward WJAR? With the pre-amp built into the Mohu I am guessing I would have to combine down in the basement.
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Old 19-Dec-2016, 11:06 PM   #14
rabbit73
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Quote:
Is this better than the other VHF antenna I already have?
In theory the 2476 has a little more gain than your VHF antenna, but I don't know of any actual measurements that compared them. The 2476 also has a tilt feature that might help.

All of your NBC signals have problems; you must be prepared to experiment.
Quote:
I can keep the Mohu pointed toward boston and one of the above toward WJAR? With the pre-amp built into the Mohu I am guessing I would have to combine down in the basement.
Yes, that would probably the best way to do it.
Quote:
Is there a decent way to combine the two different types of uhf antennas
Combining two UHF antennas aimed in different directions is not easily done. Sometimes it works, sometime not. If you use a splitter in reverse as a combiner after the power inserters for the preamps, when the same signals from each antenna reach the combining point, they might interfere with each other if they don't arrive in phase (at the same instant).

I suggest you try another antenna and preamp for WJAR without combining. If it works, then try combining. If you don't get all the channels you had when the antennas were separate, then combining that way will not work for you.

If the combining doesn't work, you have several alternatives.

1. You can run the NBC antenna coax to just one TV, and have an A/B switch to select which antenna is needed. You might need to rescan if that TV isn't able to add a channel after scan.
2. You can run the main antenna system to the TV antenna input, and connect the NBC antenna to a separate tuner, like the CM7003, with its output connected to the TV aux input.
http://www.avsforum.com/forum/186-co...erter-box.html
3. If you want NBC added to the main coax for all TVs, you will need a custom combiner for that NBC channel, made by Tin Lee Electronics, which will be more than $100.
http://www.tinlee.com/PDF/AC7-custom...kup%20Info.pdf

Jan Jenca, in Slovakia, sells a less expensive version on ebay.
http://www.antenne-komponenty.eu/eng...zlucovace.html

Attached Images
File Type: jpg antenna combinerby jan_jenca 2_1.jpg (55.2 KB, 840 views)
__________________
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Last edited by rabbit73; 19-Dec-2016 at 11:57 PM.
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Old 31-Dec-2016, 5:38 PM   #15
Nascarken
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Put the antennas higth up an other 15ft with a cm-7777 amp with the hdb91xg I am in zip 01550 with the 91xg & a vhf hi gan,#2476,antenna I receive 17 channels vhf UHF 29 channels 100/70 mile's out my antennas are 65 ft ,
hi with a channel Master, 7777,amp works well and no dropouts 70/80 present, No , c L b, hear lol 73 rabbit

Last edited by Nascarken; 31-Dec-2016 at 5:58 PM.
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