Low success with over the air (OTA) in my upcoming house?

[ant]

Here's a follow-up in trying to get OTA in my upcoming La Habra Heights, CA 90631 home which is in a difficult area.

Finally, I got a RCA ANT751R antenna in the ground level's kitchen facing the opened screen patio. The assembled antenna part (did not attach the holder part) sat on a high chair for testing facing North direction with the big hill/small mountain in the way. It actually worked decently depending on the directions (N or NW; left or east of the neighbor's big house and their backyard's small mountain/giant hill across the street). The portable ATSC DTV was able to pick up from 70 to 103 channels (it varies a lot depending on what directions and stable the signals are). It got annoying when it kept losing channels like KCBS2, KNBC4, KCAL9, KTTV11, KCOP13, etc.

For examples: (N)orth (right side of the neighbor's house) seems to do well with these most wanted channels: KNBC4 and KSCI/LA18. NW (left side of the neighbor's house) seems to do well with these most wanted channels: KCBS2, KABC7, and 62 (unstable). Other channels seem to be OK (forgot to record their antenna directions): KTLA5, KCOP/UPN13, KOCE50, and KLCS58. We have not put this new antenna in the attic yet facing the north direction and side in the house, but I am hoping it will do better than on the ground level.

Also, we tried a powered Philips Digital Indoor TV antenna SDV7225T/27 (big rectangular dish + a single pole rabbit ear antenna facing to the right horizontally in NE direction) which did better than a single pole rabbit ear aneanna. Its results were various depending on directrions and close to the kitchen patio door screen (glass window opened):
Adjacent to the kitchen screen door and holding this antenna above 5' from the floor/ground with wanted channels:
KNBC4 (unstable), KABC7, KCAL9, KTTV11, KCOP13, KSCI/LA18, KCET28, and 62 (unstable).
A few inches behind the kitchen screen door on a high chair with these wanted channels:
4 (N; unstable), 7 (NW), 9 (NW), 11 (N and NW), 13 (NW), 28 (N), 50 (N, unstable), 58 (unstable), 62 (unstable),

FYI, my parents refused to get a roof-top antenna since they said it was too big, complex, and ugly, and didn't want to get someone on the roof to install. However, they were OK with this indoor attic antenna.

We'll try more later. Hopefully, the attic will be good!

[ant]

Originally Posted by ant

Here's a follow-up in trying to get OTA in my upcoming La Habra Heights, CA 90631 home which is in a difficult area.

Finally, I got a RCA ANT751R antenna in the ground level's kitchen facing the opened screen patio. The assembled antenna part (did not attach the holder part) sat on a high chair for testing facing North direction with the big hill/small mountain in the way. It actually worked decently depending on the directions (N or NW; left or east of the neighbor's big house and their backyard's small mountain/giant hill across the street). The portable ATSC DTV was able to pick up from 70 to 103 channels (it varies a lot depending on what directions and stable the signals are). It got annoying when it kept losing channels like KCBS2, KNBC4, KCAL9, KTTV11, KCOP13, etc.
...
FYI, my parents refused to get a roof-top antenna since they said it was too big and ugly, and didn't want to get someone on the roof to install. However, they were OK with this indoor attic antenna.

We'll try more later. Hopefully, the attic will be good!

Drats. Attic doesn't improve. Some channels are still missing like on the ground level's kitchen. I guess OTA is no good. We will be taking it down and returning it to get satellite/cable service.

[Dave Loudin]

Have you ever tried picking up the San Diego stations?

[ant]

Originally Posted by Dave Loudin

Have you ever tried picking up the San Diego stations?

Nothing with brief tests. RCA antenna doesn't go farther than 40 miles to SD. The distance is about 100 miles. Also, SD stations don't have the extra asian channels like L.A. stations do that my parents want.

[Dave Loudin]

Forget the mileage ratings! Your TVFool suggests otherwise. If you wanted some use of the antenna, then that would be it.

[ant]

Originally Posted by Dave Loudin

Forget the mileage ratings! Your TVFool suggests otherwise. If you wanted some use of the antenna, then that would be it.

I can use some of the antenna with L.A. stations, just not all of them. I did tell my parents to keep it for emergencies if cable/satellite TV service goes out/has problems, but they had no comments (a bad sign?). Also, they can use it for channels that aren't carried through cable/satellite providers like those substations (e.g., 31.8).

[ant]

Hello.

I get very few OTA channels on where I am moving to and most likely be getting cable TV, but it won't have all channels that can be fed with OTA (same for satellite services). Is it possible to merge both cable TV and OTA on a single coax cable to TVs and recorders (e.g., DVRs and computers)?

Thank you in advance.

[Electron]

No , No , No and No Do Not connect cable and OTA onto one coax. Run separate coax for OTA and separate coax for cable. Many of the channels that are OTA , Cable also use on the cable system , mixing the two will not produce good results. . Satellite uses different frequencies so OTA and Satellite can be on the same coax , however for the final word you will need to get with satellite system installer.

[ant]

Originally Posted by Electron

No , No , No and No Do Not connect cable and OTA onto one coax. Run separate coax for OTA and separate coax for cable.

OK and thanks.

[ant]

Updates!

OK, My father/pa/dad and I finally worked on this RCA ANT-751 antenna in the attic, one more time today, since its return date to Fry's Electronics is a few days away and today was the only good day to retry it.

We also worked on trying to get the multiple house rooms as well. We found the Dish's multiswitch and replaced it with an old splitter. However, we only got two rooms. We also finally got all the rooms's coax outlets working. We noticed the cables setups are messy and confusing in the attic. It seems like Dish or someone disconnected the old coax cables? We also found the best spot in the attic and hopefully, the channels will stay this way even though there are missing ones. We also brought in an old portable CRT TV, with its power AC, with a few years old Zeinth DTT900 converter box (got one with a government coupon), I ran channel scans and noted these working "stable" channels:

Old portable CRT TV + Zeinth DTT900 DTV converter box:
57-83 channels found (did two scans): KCBS2, KNBC4, KTLA5, KABC7, KCAL9, KSCI18, 22, KCET28, ION30, 31, 34, 46, 52, 56, 57, KLCS58 (soso), 62, and 63.

Portable DTV (ATSC; Digital Prism):
88 channels found (wow): KCBS2, KNBC4, KTLA5, KABC7, KCAL9, 22, 28, ION30, 31, 34, 46, 52, 56, 57 (soso), 58, and 62.

Note that I gave the channel the station code/ID names for the ones I care for.

As you can see both of them are missing the ones I care for: KTTV11 (I watch FOX's shows a lot and sports sometimes), KCOP13 (I used to watch it for its Star Trek, but don't care any more), and KOCE50 (rarely though).

I find it amusing with a Terk FDTV1a Digital Pro antenna (vertical flat one), that my father/da/pa bought from Best Buy which I did not approve [sighs], worked for these missing stations: KCAL9 and KTTV11. The catch is that this antenna has to be on the middle the kitchen floor (no furnitures yet!) facing the garage's wall with an old central air condition (AC) unit throuhg the big window doors. LOL! That makes no sense though! There's wall! Maybe reflective from the wall and/or AC? Of course, this antenna is useless for every channels for its weakness (duh, we knew that).

I wonder if there something else to try to get KTTV11 and KCOP13. Then, I really don't need cable/satellite service! I do need to test the channels again to be sure they are really that stable. As you noticed, some scans don't get all or missed them. I even tried forcing them like 11-1, but no signals.

[ant]

Originally Posted by ant

Updates! ...

Old portable CRT TV + Zeinth DTT900 DTV converter box:
57-83 channels found (did two scans): KCBS2, KNBC4, KTLA5, KABC7, KCAL9, KSCI18, 22, KCET28, ION30, 31, 34, 46, 52, 56, 57, KLCS58 (soso), 62, and 63.

Portable DTV (ATSC; Digital Prism):
88 channels found (wow): KCBS2, KNBC4, KTLA5, KABC7, KCAL9, 22, 28, ION30, 31, 34, 46, 52, 56, 57 (soso), 58, and 62.

Note that I gave the channel the station code/ID names for the ones I care for.

As you can see both of them are missing the ones I care for: KTTV11 (I watch FOX's shows a lot and sports sometimes), KCOP13 (I used to watch it for its Star Trek, but don't care any more), and KOCE50 (rarely though).

I find it amusing with a Terk FDTV1a Digital Pro antenna (vertical flat one), that my father/da/pa bought from Best Buy which I did not approve [sighs], worked for these missing stations: KCAL9 and KTTV11. The catch is that this antenna has to be on the middle the kitchen floor (no furnitures yet!) facing the garage's wall with an old central air condition (AC) unit throuhg the big window doors. LOL! That makes no sense though! There's wall! Maybe reflective from the wall and/or AC? Of course, this antenna is useless for every channels for its weakness (duh, we knew that).

I wonder if there something else to try to get KTTV11 and KCOP13. Then, I really don't need cable/satellite service! I do need to test the channels again to be sure they are really that stable. As you noticed, some scans don't get all or missed them. I even tried forcing them like 11-1, but no signals.

I played more tonight with the same CRT TV, Zeinth converter box, and antenna setup (did not touch it). The weather was getting dark, cooler, and cloudy outside. I was curious if that made things different.

Here is the channels I noticed from about 7:45 PM PDT to about 8:35 PM PDT: KCBS2 (sometimes stable and sometimes unstable), KNBC4 (sometimes stable and unstable), KTLA5, KABC7, KCAL9, KSCI18, 22, KCET28, ION30, 31, 34, 40 (stable and unstable), 46, 52, 54, 56, KLCS58 (stable and unstable), 62, and 63. I noticed the problematic channels can be stable for a few minutes and then unstable for a few minutes. Basically, they come and go. KTTV11 and KCOP13 never showed up. Rescanning twice showed different results: 65 channels and 76 channels.

[ant]

Does anyone know of smaller antennae since 100" YA-1713 and 60" Y5-7-13 antennae are a bit big for a small/crowded house attic and from local retail stores (not order online)?

[ant]

Originally Posted by ant

Does anyone know of smaller antennae since 100" YA-1713 and 60" Y5-7-13 antennae are a bit big for a small/crowded house attic and from local retail stores (not order online)?

Also, does anyone know of a good antenna rotator since some channels are stronger depending on what direction (left and right of the opposite neighbor's house, but this will suck when we share the same antenna and want to watch specific channels at the same time). Of course from the local retail stores that let us return it.

[phone man]

Ant, You've been given lots of good advice over the last few months. Sorry your Dad won't allow a rooftop antenna. It was your best chance for decent OTA reception. Attic and ground level antennas just won't do the job. Good luck!

[ant]

Originally Posted by phone man

Ant, You've been given so much good advice here over the last few months. Until you're willing or able to install an antenna outdoors and high enough to make good use of the signal available at your location, you're just spinning your wheels trying to get something to work where the signal is poor like the attic or the ground level kitchen. You have to realize the importance of antenna location. There's no way around it!

I wished I could put it up on the attic even by myself silently (disabled so I can't). My parents just won't budged to the idea since it is ugly and big to them (don't see the problem with that).

BTW, signals were worse lately. About 30-40 channels.

[phone man]

Sorry if I sounded harsh. I thought you were just being stubborn then I read that your parents said NO to a rooftop antenna. That restriction and your physical limitations certainly make antenna placement a challenge.
Keep in mind as you experiment with antenna location, it's difficult sometimes to distinguish between naturally occuring signal fluctuation and a change in how your antenna is aimed or positioned. This is especially true where signals are weak to begin with.

[ant]

Originally Posted by phone man

Sorry if I sounded harsh. I thought you were just being stubborn then I read that your parents said NO to a rooftop antenna. That restriction and your physical limitations certainly make antenna placement a challenge.
Keep in mind as you experiment with antenna location, it's difficult sometimes to distinguish between naturally occuring signal fluctuation and a change in how your antenna is aimed or positioned. This is especially true where signals are weak to begin with.

Thanks and it's OK. I didn't want to reveal my personal issues, but I was fed up and angry.

Yeah, we're about to give up and just order cable TV next month/July since OTA feeds got way worse this week (30-40 channels scanned, and mostly channel numbers from KCET's 28 and up) and the weekend. It's weird because weather isn't different like a few weeks ago. It is just warmer lately due to upcoming hot summer.

I kept nagging/bugging my stubborn folks/parents that everybody, on the Internet (even showed the replies!), say to put a big roof top powerful antenna on top of this new house but noooooooooo they refused! Who cares if the antenna is big and ugly on the pretty house! Gah! I wished I could do it secretly myself! I told them that they will have to pay for expensive cable TV (lower HD picture quality too) then (not me). [sighs] Bah, we wasted many hours and over $80 on this RCA rooftop antenna and can't even return it to Fry's Electronics since it has been after 30 days.

[phone man]

Originally Posted by ant

Bah, we wasted many hours and over $80 on this RCA rooftop antenna and can't even return it to Fry's Electronics since it has been after 30 days.

That's what Craigslist is for!

[ant]

Originally Posted by phone man

That's what Craigslist is for!

Bah... :P

Hmm, I think I will try it in front of the garage and backyard on the highest point of its hill (taller than the roof) this weekend.

--

5/17/2012:

I quickly checked again this morning to see if it improved compared to recently, Zeinth converter box scanned/found 58 (more than 40 on Monday night) channels (2, 4, 22 (somewhat watchable), 28, 30, 31, 46, 52, and 62 (soso). Others were bad or not lockable to get the feeds (only detected). Two converter box's EZ scans failed to get more (cool feature to use).

--


5/19/2012 afternoon updates: We were still unable to get attic feed (e.g., channels 2, 4, 18, and higher).

However, I did take the RCA antenna and the portable 12" ATSC DTV outside to explore. Outside in the front yard was a good area (still facing west or east of the neighbor's big house across the street). Out on the backyard's high hill areas did not do well. I think the house's roof is interferring the OTA feed or something. I was able to get the best spot back in the kitchen on the ground level and has to be excactly in the middle of that place. I managed to get all the local channels (all the ones we want!) with 108 and 111 scanned! Ha! KCBS was the most iffy, but watchable. I don't know how they will do at night, raining weather, etc. Of course, my folks still refuse to put the antenna on the roof. Not even outside too which I proved to them. Ugh! I did tell my folks that the attic was a bad area because of all the metals, crowded walls, etc.

At least the antenna still has use, but it is in the specific areas. Also, I was able to see that channel 31 translator antenna from a backyard high hill area.

[ant]

I'm back, but I have good news? I pretty much gave up, but my father/dad/pa was willing to try another antenna. So he agreed to try that huge and heavy ChannelMaster/CM 4228HD from the local Fry's Electronics store. I didn't help to set up and test this time though since I was too BUSY with computer job/work, other things, and didn't care anymore since my folks refused to put the frakkin' antenna on the roof.

Amazingly, it worked very well! The portable HDTV found about 111 channels including analog and radio ones (12-0, 21-0, 27-0, 30-100 (Airbox), 30-101 (Starz), 30-200 (NFL), 30-209 (GoITV), 30-300 (Telefor), 30-301 (CineMax), 30-302 (Pasions), and 57-0. Weird! Also, this was on an paint canvas as a temporary holder in the house's kitchen facing the small mountain/giant hills blocking Mount/Mt. Wilson's transmitters views! However, KCBS2 was still iffy/not perfect again.

Oh he also had to buy a cheap Winegard Flatwave antenna. Ugh!!! Obviously, it didn't work well. :P I am just more surprised that CM 4228HD worked well.

However, I am still suspicious. That RCA antenna worked well at work first too even in the attic. Then, it went to crap until I tried it in the kitchen and outside in the front of the house. I really wished they would put one of them on the roof already! No way they would leave that huge thing in the kitchen facing the patio window to the north. LOL!

FYI, I added new old photos. into http://zimage.com/~ant/MiCasa2/ ...