UHF/VHF Antenna on Roof
After contemplating putting an antenna like the CM 4228 in the attic, I've come to my senses and decided to put a VHF/UHF antenna on the roof, something like the Winegard 7697P which will pick up Channels 7-69.
With a WG HDP-269P pre-amp that won't overload on the nearby station. Here is my TvFool report: http://www.tvfool.com/?option=com_wr...cd7207a9e594f4 The Channels I'd like to pick up are: NYC: VHF 7,11,13 and UHF 28,33,38,44 PHI: VHF: 6 and UHF: 17,26,32,34,42 I have some issues: I realize I will not get Ch. 6 from Philly with this antenna - I will need a much larger Winegard 8200U Ch. 2-69 antenna for that. Also, we don't need channels 52-69 UHF any more - are there any UHF/VHF antennas that are more streamlined to pick up only Channels 7-51 or 2-51? Really don't want to combine two seperate antenna for VHF/UHF. Any feedback or recommendations would be greatly appreciated, Thanks, John |
Reception
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Here is the link http://www.tvfool.com/?option=com_wr...cd7207a9e594f4
If I were in your shoes, I would use a Winegard 8200 antenna & Winegard 8700 preamp. The HDP-269 would probably be fine for 1-2 TV's, but I would think the 8700 would provide enough resistance to overload & provide additional gain for the weaker UHF's from NYC.. I would be afraid that the 7697 or 7698 antenna wouldn't get channel 6 well at that distance. |
Thanks for the heads up on the TVFool report link.
Static, I will research your recommendation. My original plan was for an 8200U, but then I took into account size (the 7698P seems so much more compact). I take it to receive the low VHF channels you need the bigger elements on the antenna. I may forego trying for Ch. 6 from Philly if I can get Ch. 7 from NYC, this way I can put a smaller Ch. 7-69 antenna on the roof :) Also, can you recommend a good rotator for my setup? Thanks, Quote:
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Looking at 2-69 antennas now... maybe the Winegard HD7084P instead of the 8200U beast... should be able to pick up NYC and PHI with that one eh? Don't think I'll hit ch6 with a 7698P like static said.
Also can I get channels from the rear of these antennas... greek style? Quote:
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A compact, powerful channel 7-69 antenna is listed below, I use it and love it....ignore the channel assignments, just use the frequency assignments, it won't get chan 2 thru 6: http://www.digiwavetechnologies.com/...ge&PAGE_id=281 http://i24.photobucket.com/albums/c3...q/DSC00094.jpg The big antenna above the rotor is a channel 6 antenna, the Digiwave's on top.... |
Nice Setup KB, would it be better for me to get a separate UHF antenna like the WG 9095P and a separate VHF antenna like the WG ya-1713 and combine them, instead of using a combo antenna?
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^^^You may also want to consider the PR-9032 from Winegard. That antenna has slightly better gain and gets some better reviews from users. I googled both the 9032 and 9035 a while back and found enough info from people using both to come to that conclusion. You may also want to consider the Antennas Direct MXU59. I use that along with a 91xg at my location and they both perform virtually the same.
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VHF-Hi/UHF antenna
Thanks man, I am leaning towards the Winegard 7698P VHF-Hi/UHF antenna.
You're right I'm within 40-45 miles from my towers, but I'm a little worried about a big pine tree on my land next to my house in the direction I will be pointing the antenna. Guess I will have to try and find out - I would hate to mount it and find out that the signal is blocked. Is there anything I can do to test the signal before I put the antenna up? Thanks for the help. Quote:
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That's all I gots... The pine tree might or might not be an issue, depending on the power at the towers, and how tall and dense the tree is....OTA reception is just a crap shoot anyways, you may get lucky...maybe not....I receive thru a large forest area and I'm good.... EDIT: You have a few UHF stations running 600+ Kilo Watts of power, one 1000 KW...you may get lucky... |
OTA & Tivo
I will put the antenna on the roof and pray... if the pine tree blocks NYC towers then I'll aim the sucker at PHI.
One other thing that concerns me is my TIVO... anyone know what type of converter is in the TivoHD's(series 3)? Also, ff I can get both PHI and NYC, I'm thinking 2 antenna pointed in 2 different directions w/ a JoinTenna(or something similar). Reason being is I've heard rotators can be a nightmare w/ Tivo. J |
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The main problem with combining antennas is that the performance of the antennas goes down. A high-gain antenna needs to be very directional, but by combining antennas you are making a less-directional antenna, and that means lowering the effective gain. Furthermore, having a less-directional antenna can increase your susceptibility to multipath interference (multiple signal reflections making their way into your antenna and down to your receiver). What this probably means is that the channels lower down in your list (lower part of the "red zone" channels) might not come in so reliably. You are effectively trading off low-end sensitivity for an antenna configuration with broader coverage. Quote:
With a two-antenna setup pointing at both markets simultaneously, you can record shows from either market (or both simultaneously) without having to touch the antenna system. However, as stated above, the sensitivity and resistance to multipath interference might not be as good. The alternative approach is to give up on one of the metros and just concentrate on one city (since about 80% of the programming is going to be identical anyways). You'll miss out on some of the localized programming that's out there, but you'll be no worse off than people who have no choice and are restricted to just one market due to their location. |
I'm getting there....
mtown, you make too much sense brotha, I think yer right, I'll just focus on NYC with one antenna.
I do have a multi-stream cable card for my tivo btw - didn't like the fios stb. I didn't realize combining the antennas would decrease my gain... something I don't want to do since I'll be using a VHF-hi/UHF combo antenna and I need all the UHF gain I can get. Are you saying also that combining separate UHF and VHF antennas pointed in the same direction would decrease gain - as opposed to a combo antenna? Something like a 91XG and a YA1713 on the same mast as opposed to a 7698P? Thanks for all the feedback. |
Combing VHF and UHF antennas will have very little effect on gain so long as you combine with a special coupler known as a USVJ and maintain about a five foot spacing between them.
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Dave is exactly right.
When you're combining antennas from different bands, you need to use a diplexer that isolates the low-band antenna from the high-band antenna. The UVSJ (Dave had the V and S transposed) is the ideal diplexer that splits between the VHF and UHF bands. Antennas connected this way can perform as if they were operating independently (no loss of performance). Some pre-amps (like the Channel Master 7777) come with dual inputs (one for VHF and one for UHF). These types of amps will internally combine the signals (like the UVSJ) and amplify them at the same time, eliminating the need for an external diplexer. |
I can see clearly now...
All this OTA stuff is becoming clearer to me, thanks to you guys...
I think I have all the pieces for my OTA project in place, now for the installation - getting up on the roof and strapping the antenna to the chimney.... whch bring up another concern - from looking at maps and direction of the towers from NYC, the best place to place my antenna is on the chimney for my boiler exhaust. For one it's smaller than my fireplace chimney and it smokes alot in the winter - so a little worried about high winds and a big antenna cracking the chimney, and a little less worried about fumes degrading the signal. Another thing, I will be installing Solar panels soon on the roof - should I be worried about my reception witht he antenna and the panels up there? |
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So far, I have never heard of anyone breaking a chimney due to a TV antenna. I suppose anything is possible, but chances are that the antenna mast will bend or the chimney mount itself will break (causing the antenna to fall over) before the chimney gives way. I've seen bent masts and broken mounts, but never a broken chimney. The antenna should be at least about 4-5 feet above the roof. Don't go any higher than necessary and you can keep the stress on the chimney, mount, and mast to a minimum. The peak stress levels go up approximately with the square of the distance from the mounting point, so if you double the mast length, you almost quadruple the peak stress at the mount. For taller mast installations (perhaps because neighboring buildings or other obstructions make antenna height a necessity), I recommend using guy wires (usually if the mast is over 10 feet). This will offload a lot of the lateral stress on the mast, leaving mostly downward force on the mount. Quote:
The antennas are designed for ideal operation in open space (that is, no other objects around them, especially metal). The mast is already factored into the design, so it is safe to use a vertical metal mast. The influence of other nearby objects falls off with the square of the distance, and usually, by the time you are more than 1 wavelength away from the antenna, the effect is starting to get very small. The wavelength of channel 7 is approximately 5.6 feet. The wavelength of channel 36 is approximately 1.6 feet. Even if you have objects less than 1 wavelength away (like for channel 6, having a wavelength of about 11.6 feet), it does not necessarily mean that anything bad will happen. It just means that the potential exists for the antenna's behavior to change at those frequencies. With the antenna 4-5 feet above the roof, you should be pretty safe. This should be enough distance such that even after the solar panels are installed, any influence that they might have would be small or negligible. |
Considering the cost of solar panels it might be wise to make sure that you locate the antenna in a place where, if it should fall over, it won't take out a panel or more.
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