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-   -   Assistance with VHF Hi reception. (http://forum.tvfool.com/showthread.php?t=16764)

RG6er 20-Jun-2020 5:22 PM

Assistance with VHF Hi reception.
 
1 Attachment(s)
Hello. This is my first post and was hoping someone could assist. I’ve been searching the internet looking for a possible solution to my issue but to no avail. So I decided to see if anyone on the forum had an idea.

My location: Carpinteria, CA 93013. About 11 miles from the low power VHF-HI repeater in question. The UHF channels come in fine as they are high power. Even some of the low power UHF come in good. My reception issues lies with the VHF low power repeater. The call sign is K10PV-D and it broadcasts on RF CH 10. Here is my TV Fool report

http://www.tvfool.com/option=com_wra...90380875532a88

My Issues: RF CH 10 channels sometimes comes in fine randomly throughout the day. All of a sudden it will pixelate, freeze and lose signal altogether. My LG TV (2011 model) says “scrambled” or “No signal”. I tried an aftermarket tuner which shows signal strength. The signal was about 60% and the picture still pixelated or drops out, (see uploaded pic). I currently have a second indoor antenna installed and connected to a TV in the master bedroom (Samsung 2019 model). It has the same issues at exactly the same time. The Samsung TV is connected to an Antennas Direct ClearStream 1 Max

Equipment I have & tried: My current setup consists of the following:
Antennas direct 2V (installed about 15 feet above ground level), 17 feet of RG6Q cable, grounding block, 15’ of RG6Q to TV

I have tried the following items to attempt to get a better signal:
• Radio Shack FM Trap, (installed after antenna)
• Winegard Boost XT, (didn’t help too much)
• Channel Master Amplify, (didn’t help too much)
• Winegard HD7694P
• Winegard Y-7000
• CM Extremetenna 80

Each of the antennas performed about the same. And my indoor antenna does the same as the outdoor. I'm thinking my issues my be outside of my control? Does anyone have any thoughts? My next step is to try and call the station directly and see if an engineer can assist.

Thank you in advance for any feedback.

OTAFAN 20-Jun-2020 10:16 PM

Hi RG6er:

Welcome to the forum!

Let's start with your rabbitears.info report for your zip code. It's more accurate with repack as the TV Fool report has not been updated for some time. And the link you provided doesn't seem to be working at the moment. (Patience please as it takes about 20 seconds to load).

https://www.rabbitears.info/search.p...=dBm&height=15

You have about three stations that are showing "fair" reception (KSBY being one), a number of poor reception stations and others worse. The channel in question you're asking about is problematic due to it's low power and your actual location from its tower, and your antenna set up with the AD2V antenna you're using. It only has a single dipole for HVHF reception, so not much gain. But you're probably getting about as good reception as you're going to get. Also, if you look at the Longley-Rice map, you'll see that stations actual optimum coverage area. CAVEAT: There are Techs here that might have suggestions to help you receive the channel more reliably. I'm sure someone will chime in.

Since you have tried other options as you mentioned above, I would certainly attempt to contact the station and see if they could be of assistance. Courtesy goes along way in these situations, FWIW.

Please keep the forum updated as to your progress. I would interested in how it turns out for you.

All the best.....

Tim 20-Jun-2020 11:13 PM

I find it interesting that the Winegard HD7694P did not work. It has decent VHF-Hi performance. Do you have clear line of sight to the transmitter tower? I wonder if you are experiencing some type of interference.

rabbit73 20-Jun-2020 11:25 PM

2 Attachment(s)
Quote:

Originally Posted by RG6er (Post 62987)
Hello.

The UHF channels come in fine as they are high power. Even some of the low power UHF come in good. My reception issues lies with the VHF low power repeater. The call sign is K10PV-D and it broadcasts on RF CH 10. Here is my TV Fool report

http://www.tvfool.com/option=com_wra...90380875532a88

Hello, RG6er; welcome to the forum.

The link to your TVFool report doesn't work; there is one character missing, a "?" before option. I think this is your report:
http://www.tvfool.com/?option=com_wr...90380875532a88

As OTAFAN mentioned, TVFool reports have become less accurate because of a defective database used to generate reports and many changes from Repack by the FCC. Here is a report from rabbitears.info based on your TVFool report. I don't have your exact address, but I think it's close:
https://www.rabbitears.info/searchma...tudy_id=110137

http://forum.tvfool.com/attachment.p...5&d=1592697703

You can do your own report here:
https://www.rabbitears.info/searchmap.php

http://forum.tvfool.com/attachment.p...4&d=1592696265

Quote:

RF CH 10 channels sometimes comes in fine randomly throughout the day. All of a sudden it will pixelate, freeze and lose signal altogether.
As OTAFAN also suggested, it could be a problem with the channel 10 transmitter. It might be useful to talk to the K10PV-D station engineer, if you can find him. K10PV-D is a translator for KSBY. Do you know anyone in your area that is also trying OTA that could tell you if they are having a problem with channel 10?

If there is no transmitter problem, then there must be a problem with your antenna system. Both of your antennas have the same problem, and both have just a dipole for VHF. It could be that a dipole doesn't have enough gain for that VHF-High channel, but you said you tried an HD7694P antenna which has a lot more gain for channel 10. The new instructions for the 7694 are confusing because they don't agree with the image of the antenna. The VHF-High section of the 7694 is an LPDA (Log Periodic Antenna) that must have the elements unfolded correctly for full gain.

The other possible causes of your problem are trees in the signal path or electrical interference which will reduce the SNR of the channel 10 signal. Electrical interference is higher on VHF than on UHF.

This spectrum analyzer scan made with a $22 USB dongle and free open-source spectrum analyzer software shows electrical interference noise bad enough to cause a problem with VHF-High reception:

https://i.imgur.com/AQxUSBy.jpg

RG6er 21-Jun-2020 3:21 AM

First off let me tell everyone thank you so much for responding to my question. I wasn’t expecting so many responses so soon.

I’ve used rabbitears.info as well as other OTA search websites. The results that Rabbit73 posted are very accurate. I don’t know of anyone else around the area with an antenna, I searched the forum and found two from the area that posted questions. They were a few yers old though. Cord cutting may not be that popular in this area.

As far as I can tell there are no ridges in the way. There are trees and power lines about 500 feet from where I live. Those are line of sight to the K10PV tower.

I forgot to mention, I purchased a small portable TV and drove to within two miles of where the tower is located, (church parking lot). I had a perfect line of sight of all of the towers on the ridge, (a lot of FM stations there). I used the VHF dipoles from the antenna direct and used about 6 foot of RG6. I received the same issues while I was there, (the Small RCA Yagi was currently installed on the roof). There was some pixelation and it dropped out for a few minutes with the portable TV in the parking lot.

This leads me to believe the problem may not be entirely with my setup.

I’m wondering if the station switches to ATSC 3.0 will that help alleviate some of the issues? The station is owned by Scripps. I believe they are on the 3.0 transition. Actually, another station KSBB, (a low power repeater in Santa Barbara) transmits in ATSC 3.0 and has been doing so since Fall 2018. They transmit CBS and FOX for the area. I’m hoping I can receive it one tuners are made available.

bobsgarage 21-Jun-2020 1:04 PM

Not much I can add here.
 
2 Attachment(s)
Well, you've been helped by the best. Rabbit has a lot of experience. OTA FAN and Tim also have some good advice.

The only suggestion I could make is to get a Stellar labs 30 - 2476. It's one of the very few VHF High only antennas made these days.

I'm pretty sure it will help perform any of the other VHF combos. You could get a UVSJ and combined the VHF antenna with your other antennas without any penalties on the UHF side. Also, if noise is an issue or signal strength I could recommend a Kitz Technologies KT - 200 preamp. They have some other preamps but the main thing they feature is low noise. Low noise is very useful when you have a weak signal you're trying to pull. I am not a big fan of the Winegard LNA-200. Especially on VHF High.

http://forum.tvfool.com/attachment.p...1&d=1592744469

http://forum.tvfool.com/attachment.p...1&d=1592744496
If you would like there are several Facebook groups you can join:

https://m.facebook.com/groups/157627...60548120937415

Of course that is after you contact the station engineers and find out if they really do have a transmitter issue.

jrgagne99 22-Jun-2020 1:49 PM

I second the 30-2476 suggestion. It has one of the highest VHF-hi gains available. Try that in the church parking lot. If there is still pixellation and drop-out, I think it is most likely something wrong with the station. Perhaps calling them first is a better idea...

RG6er 1-Jul-2020 5:47 PM

Update
 
Hello,

I tried the Stellar labs 30 - 2476, (Amazon purchase). Same issue. The reception is good, but drops at random times.

I called the engineering dept and left a voicemail, (no call back yet). I emailed the station last week. The reply said to call the engineering dept.


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