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Charles 4-Mar-2014 3:59 PM

Dropping Satellite and Coming Back to OTA
It appears that this sight and forum is a wonderful resource for the uninformed such as my self. I'm frustrated paying $80 a month, mostly for channels that I never use.

I have generated a TV Fool report:

and would like to get feedback from the experienced members on how to proceed.

One question before I proceed. Before going out and spending on a quality roof mount antenna, is there an inexpensive indoor antenna that I could acquire just to get an idea of what OTA television will be like? It would be very helpful just to know from a couple of strong, close by stations that I can make the system work and that I'm not overlooking any technical requirements.

Thanks in advance for any assistance that can be directed to my way.


GroundUrMast 4-Mar-2014 5:00 PM

Testing with an inexpensive antenna is certainly a prudent way to start. Consider the RCA ANT-111, which I see offered online for under $9 at the moment.

Connect it to the TV, then use the setup menu to switch the TV from cable mode to 'air' or 'antenna'. You'll also need to run a scan for channels. Based on your report, I'd expect you to see at least one signal... But likely more.

If I was in the same situation, I'd use an Antennacraft HBU-44 pointed at about 80 (compass). If there are several TVs to connect, I'd also install an RCA TVPRAMP1R preamplifier.

teleview 4-Mar-2014 7:05 PM

-->Many<--USA Digital Broadcast Tv Stations/Channels Will Be Received.

For reception that Also includes , Canada Tv Station/Channel , CBET-DT Real VHF high band channel 9 , The CBC.

Above the Peak Of The Roof install a ,

Also buy the Y10-7-13 antenna at ,

Y10-7-13 , VHF high band channels 7 thru 13 antenna is aimed at about 90 degree magnetic compass direction.

The Y10-7-13 antenna is Also for reception of.

WJBK Real VHF high band channel 7 , FOX and Movies.

WILX-TV Real VHF high band channel 10 , NBC and Antenna Tv.


Here is how to aim antennas ,

Use a Real and Actual magnetic compass to aim antenna.


The other -->Many<-- Tv Stations/Channels are UHF Tv channels.

Also install a , Antennas Direct , DB8e , UHF channels 14 thru 51 antenna.

Aim 1 panel at the ~East North East~ Group of Tv stations at about 80 degree magnetic compass direction.

Aim the other panel at the ~North West~ Group of Tv stations at about 300 degree magnetic compass direction.


Install a ,

10G221 preamplifier.

Also buy the 10G221 preamp at ,

Connect the Y10-7-13 antenna to the VHF connection of the preamp.

Connect the DB8e antenna to the UHF connection of the preamp.

Operate the preamp in the separate antenna mode.

The FM radio trap will be in the , in/on position.


For 1 Tv connected use No splitter.

For 2 Tv's connected use a , Holland Electronics , HFS-2D , 2 way splitter.

For 3 Tv's connected use a , Holland Electronics , HFS-3D , 3 way splitter.

For 4 Tv's connected use a , Holland Electronics , HFS-4D , 4 way splitter.

Buy the , HFS-2D , HFS-3D , HFS-4D , splitters at , , or ,


Here are some above the roof antenna mounts.
Use the , ronard(911) , 5 foot tripod antenna mount.
Use the , ronard(4560) , eave antenna mount.
Measure around the chimney and use a , ronard(2212) , ronard(2218) , ronard(2224) .

Buy the ronard antenna mounts at , , or ,


Home Depot has 10 feet 6 inch lengths of , TOP RAIL , chain link fence PIPE that makes good antenna mast , the price is low dollars about 10 dollars.


As always . trees and tree leaves , plants and plant leaves , have a Negative Effect on Broadcast Tv Reception and so do buildings and other obstructions including your own roof and building.

Some and not all Negative Effects are.

Absorbing and Blocking Reception.

Multi-Path Reflecting Tv Signals Bouncing All Around.

The Best Practice for Reliable Reception is to install the antennas at a location that has the least amount to no amount of obstructions of any type or kind in the directions of reception including your own roof and building.

The directions of reception at your location are , ~East North East~ , ~North West~.


Go into the Tv Setup Menu and select.

The Tv/s Must Channel Scan for the , OTA=Over The Air , ATSC-Digital Broadcast Tv Stations/Channels , often named the ~ Antenna Channels ~ ATSC Channels ~ DTV Channels ~ Air Channels ~ in the TV Setup Menu.

In the Tv Setup Menu.

DO NOT select and channel scan for cable tv channels.


If you have any type or kind of cable delivered service such as , cable tv service , cable internet service , cable phone service , the cable delivered services Must Be on a Separate Coax that is not connected to the coaxes that are used for the antenna system.

Yes the cable coaxes can be used for the antenna system , but any cable delivered service must be on a Separate coax not connected to the antenna system coaxes.


If you no longer have satellite service the coaxes that were used for the satellite system can be used for the antenna system.

Disconnect and remove all satellite system componets such as and not limited to , receivers , multi-switches , multi-plexers , splitters , couplers , amplifiers , power injectors/power supplies and etc. .


Many people are going with the internet streaming services such as and not limited to , Netflix , HULU+ and etc. .

The December 2013 issue , page 42 , of Consumer Reports , has a Practical and Useful article about receivers and services.

Charles 5-Mar-2014 4:17 AM

Thank you "GroundurMast" and "teleview", I appreciate hearing from you. I just got in from a long day and will spend a little more time tomorrow thinking through your responses and will certainly then have more questions.


dmfdmf 5-Mar-2014 8:01 AM


Originally Posted by Charles (Post 42449)
One question before I proceed. Before going out and spending on a quality roof mount antenna, is there an inexpensive indoor antenna that I could acquire just to get an idea of what OTA television will be like? It would be very helpful just to know from a couple of strong, close by stations that I can make the system work and that I'm not overlooking any technical requirements.

Welcome Charles. This is a smart way to start, a step many people skip that leads to frustration, disappointing results and wasted time and money. I second GroundUrMast's recommendation for the cheap $9 test antenna.

I got into OTA via a utube video on making a TV antenna from coat hangers. It worked so well I now have a nice ANT751 on my roof serving 3 TVs with 80+ channels (Ok, to be honest many of them aren't in English). So get a cheap antenna and learn a bit, questions answered here, so when you are ready to move up to a "real" antenna you will have a good understanding of the issues unique to your location and your needs. Good luck.

Charles 7-Mar-2014 10:18 AM

After a few days fidgeting around with the cheapie RCA antenna, I can see that this is going to work quite well and I'm ready to go at it. As was suggested, I was able to pick up three or four stations, and one of them gave me a very sharp, clean picture. I just have a couple of quick questions.

I found the DB8e antenna at <> for considerably less than on other sites, would be interested to know if others have used this site and if they are reliable.

Also, in regards to a splitter, is it okay to order a 4 way if I only need 3? I'm just think about possible future expansion.

Using the equipment as suggested by teleview, will I be able to draw an FM signal or do I need to make that an entirely separate project?


tomfoolery 7-Mar-2014 12:48 PM


Originally Posted by Charles (Post 42506)
I found the DB8e antenna at <> for considerably less than on other sites, would be interested to know if others have used this site and if they are reliable.

I bought my DB4e from Amazon for about the same money as SolidSignal, but before that I sourced my FIL's HBU22 from SolidSignal, and was satisfied with the service. Just a single data point, so take it for what it's worth.

teleview 7-Mar-2014 2:20 PM

The solidsignal service , buying products at a fair price and shipped to your location is Ok.

However a word of caution.

Do not ask solidsignal what antenna/s they recommend for your reception.

Solidsignal is -->Pushing antennas and other reception devices.

The person providing information is beholden to solidsignal.


For FM.

I recommend a antenna and coax that is not connected connected to the Tv antenna system.

Antenna Craft , FMSS , for local reception.


FM6 if receiving a long distance FM station.

Charles 7-Mar-2014 6:04 PM

Good news about solid signal, they appear to have all that I need and they are about thirty minutes away. Now if we can just get a few days of 50 degree temperatures here in southeast Michigan, I could get at the installation.


Charles 27-Mar-2014 10:18 PM

The weather is beginning to moderate and I have hopes of getting and installing the antennas within the next few days. You referred me to the 10G221 Preamp and Solid Signal only has the 10G222 listed. The 10G221's specs say "Average gain of 16dB VHF and 22dB UHF.", and Noise figure <3.0dB VHF, 2.6dB UHF. The 10G222 has an "Average gain of 29dB for both VHF and UHF", and a "Noise figure of <3.0dB VHF and 2.5dB UHF." I would like to get everything at Solid Signal as they are but thirty miles away, but if the 10G221 is clearly a better unit I would wait and buy it online. Please let me know if I should be concerned about the differences.

Also, I want to use two or three televisions with this setup, should I get a splitter that has exactly the number of outlets that I need? My thought was to get a 4 way splitter to use for any possible future expansion.

Thanks for any additional assistance you can offer.


teleview 28-Mar-2014 12:23 AM

In place of the 10G221 preamp , install a , RCA TVPRAMPR-1R preamplifier.

Use the , HFS-4D , 4 way splitter.

GroundUrMast 28-Mar-2014 12:29 AM

Gain is not the 'be all and end all' factor to consider when selecting an amplifier. You also need to consider the possibility of overload due to the total amount of signal input to the amplifier.

The TVPRAMP1R and the 10G221 are both capable of handling a mix of strong signals. The 10G222 is described by Antennacraft as, "Best used in deep fringe areas where all signals are weak." Your situation doesn't quite qualify as 'deep fringe'. You should not need the extra 7 dB of gain anyway.

If Solid Signal does not have either of the suggested amplifiers, try Radio Shack... Amazon was offering the TVPRAMP1R for less than $22 when I checked a few moments ago.

Charles 28-Mar-2014 1:24 AM

Thanks guys, I've found all of the components for my setup, though I had to go through three different sites. Can't wait to get to the other end of the project and flip the tv on.


Charles 7-Apr-2014 9:38 PM

Project Snag Encountered
I thought that I was ready to mount the antenna this week, it's finally in the upper 50's here in Michigan and I have the week off of work. But Solid Signal messed with me and they don't have the Ronard Model 2218 Chimney mount. They have no idea when more will come in and even the factory does not know as they are out of the necessary steel to produce more. The folks at Ronard could not give me the name of any other retailers that carry their products, only Solid Signal.

Does anyone here know of another source for Ronard? Amazon does not have stock nor an estimate of when or if they will have them again. Is there another brand and model that I could consider?


teleview 7-Apr-2014 10:28 PM


Has antenna mounts by other manufactures.


Yes the , HFS-4D , can be installed.


That is interesting about ronard and solidsignal.

Ronard is not the only manufacture that having product shortages situations.

Solidsignal is not the only seller that is having lack of knowledge situations.

I suspect that the situations are because we live in a time when ego and attitude is more important then practical and useful.

Charles 8-Apr-2014 5:11 AM

Thanks teleview, you have been extremely helpful.

I guess I was the most surprised when I asked Ronard for other retailers and the answer came back that Solid Signal was the only option. That seems very strange and not very good for the bottom line.

The one thing that I liked about the Ronard 2218 was that it is designed to have a bolt go through the clamp and into the mast. It seems to me that this offers a great deal more stability. So I'm left wondering if I should wait, it could be weeks, or find a different brand. Please let me know if there are any other brands that are traditionally highly rated.

I'm after a chimney mount as I really do not want to drill holes in the roof. Ronard's eve mount model does not work as our house is not configured properly, and we have brick siding making the wall mounts very difficult to install.

Thanks Again!!!

teleview 8-Apr-2014 6:19 AM


At 3 Star , the , EASY/UP Tv Antenna Chimney Mount "Z" Bracket EZ28-36S , 18 inch Stainless Steal Straps.

You can make your own anti-turn feature , drill a hole through the mast pipe and bracket and put a bolt through.

Charles 8-May-2014 3:17 AM

OTA Project is Failing
After a couple of weeks of tinkering with my first OTA project, I'm close to giving up. I am not able to receive consistently strong enough signals to make watching television fun and relaxing. I have hooked up a temporary single RG6 coax cable from my television to a Antennas Direct DB8e, with nothing else in the circuit. The strong stations are mostly okay, but some of the medium strength stations go in and out. Two of the stations that I deem most important, while relatively close to each other, require different positions of the antenna to avoid one of them dropping out. I've tried finding a compromise middle position, but nothing seems to work. I've even bypassed the combiner and connected directly to each side of the antenna, yet I still have major problems and get complete signal loss on a few channels.

Everyone on this forum has been extremely helpful, freely sharing your knowledge with novices such as myself. I would gladly spend a little more time trying to get it to work if anyone has any additional suggestions.


GroundUrMast 8-May-2014 7:51 AM

Can you tell us the call sign and real channel number of the problem signals?

Are there obstructions such as your roof, trees or nearby buildings in the path toward the transmitters?

You said that you have only connected the DB8E. Do you have a Y10713 and a TVPRAMP1R? If so, have you installed them?

Charles 8-May-2014 1:37 PM

The two channels that are rather high up on our priority list, and that I was having problems with, are WKBD - 14, and WTVS - 44. If I am at a mid-point between the two channels, both are somewhat weak and will sporadically drop out. If I aim more precisely at just one, the other may not come in at all.

I tried connecting to just one panel on the DB8E as a test to make sure that the combiner was working, I now have it hooked up properly. I do have a Y10713 and the RCA Preamp. The last time I had the preamp in the circuit the number of channels and the quality of the signal were noticeably lower. I concluded that it was defective and I am returning it to Radio Shack. I don't have the Y10713 in the circuit right now as I do not have a way to combine the signal, and unless I can get a reasonable number of UHF channels the VHF side will not make a difference.

When I first started, about two weeks ago, a scan of available channels totaled 31, now I am only getting just over half.

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