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-   -   Help!! Information overload Antenna/location etc (http://forum.tvfool.com/showthread.php?t=16408)

Theresa 10-Jan-2018 7:34 PM

Help!! Information overload Antenna/location etc
 
I have tried to look up antennas to see which one would be good but there are so many opinions of which one to get are confusing, also location and mounting. Coordinates: 35.62289 -86.755359 or report (although it goes to our neighbors house not ours: http://www.tvfool.com/?option=com_wr...60ed7ab145a23a
We live in a holler where south is open of immediate tree's /hills. House sits at approx 1000 with our hill in back at 1215 - The terrain is hills and trees, and not a lot of neighbors. Towers range approx 35 miles from the house and some of the maps do show limited service in the area. Our neighbor does get multiple channels but he says look for an antenna with an amplifier, others say gain. The two most recommended are: Winegard HD8200U or RCA ANT751R Outdoor HDTV Antenna - UHF/VHF. Also Directional vs omnidirectional antenna, others say I need two antennas for best reception. Unsure of budget since I pay approx $100 a month in Direct Fees, but the higher it is will just take me a little longer to get it up and running. Have looked but no installer or helper in this area.:confused:

JoeAZ 10-Jan-2018 8:15 PM

Greetings,
You are not in a good signal area. The RCA antenna would
be completely useless in your situation. I have conflicting
information on what channels are in use in Nashville.
Do you have internet/wifi in your home?
If you do, you might be better off streaming than attempting
over the air television.

Theresa 10-Jan-2018 8:20 PM

Yes through ATT, but it is intermittent at best or not reliable. Rain knocks out Direct but we do have a Roku that works depending on signal. Main concern is weather on local channels during storms.

rabbit73 10-Jan-2018 9:28 PM

2 Attachment(s)
Welcome to the forum, Theresa

Thank you for the coordinates and the neighbor's report.

I'm not sure we have your location correct, so our advice might be wrong. The coordinates for your location and the location for your neighbor are almost 10 miles apart. Could that be correct?

The longitude numbers are close, but latitude numbers are far apart. Can you double check your coordinates, they are for an open field with no house.

Theresa 11-Jan-2018 12:04 AM

1 Attachment(s)
I have also attached the all channels report.
This is what it gave me when putting in our address: http://www.tvfool.com/?option=com_wr...60edc5d0bc9a87
This is what it gave me when putting in the coordinates: http://www.tvfool.com/?option=com_wr...60ed7ab145a23a
or
GPS Coordinates - I actually placed the marker on our house
Decimal Degrees
Latitude: 35.762301
Longitude: -86.755485
DMS (Degrees, Minutes, Seconds)
Latitude: N S 35 45' 44.28"
Longitude:E W 86 45' 19.75"

rabbit73 11-Jan-2018 1:28 AM

Thank you for the coordinates; you do excellent work, Theresa. I will study the report.

Entering an antenna height of 25 feet makes the signals look a little better:

http://www.tvfool.com/?option=com_wr...60ed9d4ce4d8da

rabbit73 11-Jan-2018 3:20 AM

3 Attachment(s)
This is an extract of your report:

http://forum.tvfool.com/attachment.p...2&d=1515639674

This report is from rabbitears.info:

http://forum.tvfool.com/attachment.p...3&d=1515639955

And, for comparison, this report is from the FCC DTV map site:

http://forum.tvfool.com/attachment.p...4&d=1515640811

The reports are different because the database for the TVFool report has errors and the prediction software used is having a hard time calculating the signal strengths because you are inn a valley behind a hill.

The TVFool report only shows CBS on real channel 5, which would require a BIG antenna like the Winegard HD8200U. The rabbitears.info report shows CBS on 5 and also UHF real channel 25. The FCC report only shows UHF channel 25. IF you are able to get CBS on UHF channel 25, then you can use the Winegard HD7698P antenna. Either antenna will requite a preamp like the Antennas Direct Juice or the Channel Master 7777HD/Amplify which has HI and LO gain settings.

rabbit73 11-Jan-2018 4:01 AM

2 Attachment(s)
This terrain profile shows the hill in the signal path.

http://forum.tvfool.com/attachment.p...5&d=1515643309

This shows your location in the valley:

http://forum.tvfool.com/attachment.p...6&d=1515643874

Difficult, but maybe not impossible.

jrgagne99 11-Jan-2018 1:52 PM

Moving the thumbtack 100 feet to the north or 100 ft to the east looks like it would improve your signal significantly, because it gets you up out of the hole. I think anything to get it higher up will help. Location, location, location.

JoeAZ 11-Jan-2018 1:59 PM

Lest you forget from Theresa's initial post
"Have looked but no installer or helper in this area."

ADTech 11-Jan-2018 2:40 PM

It would be my opinion, that, unless you can get a lucky signal reflection off the hill to your south, reception from Nashville will be pretty much zero. You're 200' down from the crest of a tree-covered hill in a span of less than 2/10th of a mile. The signals simply will not diffract quickly enough for them to get to your lower elevation.

In this case, the TVFool calculations, same as any other LRI algorithm, will grossly overestimate signals. The calculations cannot be accurate when dealing with a change in elevation this abrupt and, quite simply, should be disregarded as unreliable, at best. I've learned this the hard way after doing thousands of these analyses in numerous terrain scenarios and have field-tested a fair number of them.

Regrettably, this is not a location where I see that antenna reception will be viable. Wish I had a better prognosis.

rabbit73 11-Jan-2018 3:05 PM

2 Attachment(s)
I agree with ADTech that if you are not able to receive the direct signals from the North, you might be able to receive their reflections from the hill to the South.

looking North

http://forum.tvfool.com/attachment.p...7&d=1515686893

looking South

http://forum.tvfool.com/attachment.p...8&d=1515687971

JoeAZ 11-Jan-2018 6:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Theresa (Post 59441)
Yes through ATT, but it is intermittent at best or not reliable. Rain knocks out Direct but we do have a Roku that works depending on signal. Main concern is weather on local channels during storms.

As I indicated early on and other tend to agree, over the air television
reception at your home would be nearly impossible. You can watch
WKRN, WSMV News from Nashville via the "News ON" app for ROKU.
There is live and delayed news from around the country.

Theresa 11-Jan-2018 7:45 PM

So most likely we won't be able to get service so do I even try or is it just a waste of money? Is it worth trying the Winegard HD7698P antennawith a preamp (Antennas Direct Juice or the Channel Master 7777HD/Amplify) are necessary and it should be at least 25' up facing south? It is possible to move 100' to the north or east to maybe increase our chances of reception. I was a little concerned about the Winegard HD8200U due to it's size and need for mounting. I'm assuming a Channel Master Mast will work OK but am concerned about straight line wind issues with an antenna mount. It also must be grounded correct? There is no need for 2 antenna's one north and one south as Nashville stations aren't likely. Should I try a less expensive antenna to see if there is any viability in even trying to get some type of service? Again, my main concern is getting a local channel during a storm which is impossible with Direct but we might be able to pick up something from the Roku even though our internet is in and out?
I did notice in the terrain map it is showing our neighbors home instead of ours but the north and south maps show our home. I know our neighbors at the beginning of our drive use something similar to the Clearstream V2 facing South East on the front of their mobil home (100' lower elevation) and get multiple channels but again we are tucked back a little further than they are.

JoeAZ 11-Jan-2018 10:28 PM

My suggestion would be for you to try with the following
stipulation: Whatever you purchase can be returned,
undamaged, for a full refund. I no longer recommend
the Winegard Antennas. The failure rate of a connector
is so high, it makes them a poor choice. You might want
to consider:

https://www.homedepot.com/p/Channel-...3018/203763043

It is a very good buy and you should be able to return it
at any Home Depot.
I hope your roof is NOT metal. It can cause all kinds of reception
issues.
With 50 feet of known good/new RG6, connect the antenna to
one television through a door or window. One person at the Tv
and the other, holding antenna on the roof. Try various directions
and also try tilting UP towards the tops of those hills as well.
GOOD LUCK and Be safe on that roof!

rabbit73 12-Jan-2018 3:45 AM

3 Attachment(s)
Quote:

Originally Posted by Theresa (Post 59457)
I did notice in the terrain map it is showing our neighbors home instead of ours but the north and south maps show our home.

You are correct; I didn't notice that. I had entered the correct coordinates, but the FCC DTV site changed them:

http://forum.tvfool.com/attachment.p...9&d=1515728427

I redid it and moved the marker to your location. The signals are weaker:

http://forum.tvfool.com/attachment.p...0&d=1515728725

Quote:

So most likely we won't be able to get service so do I even try or is it just a waste of money? Is it worth trying the Winegard HD7698P antenna with a preamp (Antennas Direct Juice or the Channel Master 7777HD/Amplify) are necessary and it should be at least 25' up facing south?
The computer simulations are having a hard time with your location; it is difficult to predict what you will be able to get.
Quote:

Should I try a less expensive antenna to see if there is any viability in even trying to get some type of service?
Yes

If I were there with you, I would want to try some inexpensive antennas with a preamp in a test at different locations. For WSMV NBC I would try a Stellar Labs 30-2476 VHF antenna. It has a tilt feature that allows you to tilt the front end up to catch the signal coming down from the top of the hill. I would try aiming north first.
http://www.newark.com/stellar-labs/3...MaAp1XEALw_wcB

for WKRN ABC I would try the Solid Signal HDB91X UHF antenna. It also has a tilt feature and is on sale:
https://www.solidsignal.com/pview.asp?p=hdb91x

Quote:

It is possible to move 100' to the north or east to maybe increase our chances of reception.
That is worth trying.

http://forum.tvfool.com/attachment.p...1&d=1515730709

Red is the weakest listed signal strength; no color is even weaker.

Quote:

I know our neighbors at the beginning of our drive use something similar to the Clearstream V2 facing South East on the front of their mobil home (100' lower elevation) and get multiple channels but again we are tucked back a little further than they are.
That sounds promising.

rabbit73 12-Jan-2018 4:30 AM

Quote:

It also must be grounded correct?
If the antenna is outside, the coax shield should be grounded with a grounding block that is connected to the house electrical system ground with 10 gauge copper wire for electrical safety and to reject interference. For further compliance with the electrical code (NEC), the mast should also be grounded in a similar manner to drain any buildup of static charge which will tend to discourage a strike, but the system will not survive a direct strike.

http://i.imgur.com/RT41tXx.gif

rabbit73 12-Jan-2018 6:43 PM

2 Attachment(s)
Forum member bobsgarage lives between Chicago and Milwaukee. He put up two masts, one for each direction, but the antennas were aimed in about the same direction when he took the photo. This is what the 30-2476 and the HDB91X look like up in the air.

http://forum.tvfool.com/attachment.p...5&d=1515782606

http://forum.tvfool.com/attachment.p...1&d=1504224588

Video for HDB91X assembly:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fEnIbVxxKH4

This shows the tilt bracket. With the adjustment nut on this side of the boom, the front of the antenna can be tilted down. If you need to tilt the front of the antenna up, the adjustment nut should be on the other side of the boom.

http://forum.tvfool.com/attachment.p...6&d=1515790691

JoeAZ 12-Jan-2018 9:50 PM

Theresa.

You now have several very good but different options from which to
choose. Each has it's positives and negatives. Whatever you choose
to do....... Best of Luck and most important Never go on a roof alone
without telling someone or having someone to assist.

rabbit73 12-Jan-2018 11:18 PM

2 Attachment(s)
The catalog image and the assembly diagram for the Stellar Labs 30-2476 VHF-High antenna don't agree about where the mast clamp should be located on the boom:

http://forum.tvfool.com/attachment.p...8&d=1515799051

http://forum.tvfool.com/attachment.p...9&d=1515799112

http://forum.tvfool.com/attachment.p...2&d=1473805939


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