Western Pa antenna questions.
 

Thank you for allowing me to be here and thank you in advance for any help or advice.
I am Approximately 45 miles north east of Pittsburgh Pa and cut the cord 3-1/2 years ago.
Due to my elevation, I get pretty good reception with my 25+ year old directional analog antenna with no rotor.
I get stations I shouldn't get and don't get some that I should.
We operate 3 TVs from that one antenna so a rotor would make one better but the others worse.

Here is my TVFool report link:
http://www.tvfool.com/?option=com_wr...e6a41ff2c2dc4a

I'd like to upgrade but not sure which way to go.

The omni-directionals seem attractive to me but I've read that they may not be all they're cracked up to be.
The main TV is a lower end Element.
I run coax from the antenna into a Channel Master booster in the basement where it splits.
If I get a new antenna, I'd probably move the location so that it would be 10' higher.
If it would help, I can list the stations I get and ones that I think I should get but can't.

Thanks, again, in advance.

You should steer clear of an omni in my opinion.

An antenna with VHF-hi + UHF elements such as the Winegard 7698P aimed at 228 magnetic should get you all the major networks from Pittsburgh, down through WPNT. The Winegard 7694P is smaller, and might work too, but WPNT might not come in.

What model is your "booster"? If it is a 7778, you should move it to the mast to amplifiy signal before the cable losses. You shouldn't need a powered splitter. Start with 1 tv to keep it simple at first. Then add a 3-way passive splitter and only go to powered if you need it. If you want Altoona stations too, you'll need a rotor too. But altoona signals are pretty weak (except WTAJ), so buyer beware.

Thank you for your reply.

I have never been able to get WTAE and WPNT used to come in but doesn't now.
WPXI only comes in sometimes.

WWCP from Altoona is pretty reliable and my only source for ABC.
WJAC from Johnstown is clear but loses signal more often.

I shouldn't be getting Steubenville stations but they are some of my better ones

The amp is a Channel Master CM3414 4-Port Distribution Amplifier for Cable and Antenna Signal.

Although I agree that a rotor will definitely improve my performance, I am concerned about the second TV.

That is my wife's and we don't, usually, watch the same things.

Will the Winegard VHF-hi allow me to get WQED (13)?

WQED will move from channel 13 to channel 2 in 2020. You will need a large all channel antenna such as the Winegard 8200u or Channel Master 3020.

Thanks, Tower Guy.
A while back I saw they were moving but didn't remember if they were moving up or down

Can you tell us more about your current "25+ year old" analog antenna, and where is it aimed? What model is it, mounting height, field of view (any trees?) etc.

BTW, there is no such thing as an "analog" or "digitial" or "HDTV-ready" antenna. That is all marketing mumbo-jumbo.

I think you will be surprised at what you pull in when you mount some real horsepower up there like the HD8200U or the CM-3020 or 5020.

I'll see if I can get a picture of the present antenna.
I just assumed there was analog and digital antennas.

The height is about 20'.
There are no obstructions.
Trees, buildings or hills.
There is one tree @ 50' north that has no affect,.

I can't tell you what model it is.
I'm senile and I bought it 25 years ago, m/l.

I want to think it's a Channel Master and it was one with higher mileage ratings.
It was a VHF and the UHF was an add on.

My elevation is pretty high.
I'm on the second highest place in Armstrong County.

I couldn't find my compass which was unreliable.
North would move 45 degrees.
Just ordered anew, better one.
But, I'm somewhere between 210-235.

I realize that's a big window.

(I have a picture but don't know how to add it)

Pic
 

https://photos.app.goo.gl/kHBpQBfFRdwSmn283

https://photos.google.com/photo/AF1Q...aiYaWTykhaeYpj

That didn't work for the pic

This antenna always got a lot of stations.
Just not all the time.

For example, last night, with clear skies, I was losing signal to some of the stations.
I did a scan.
Didn't get those stations but picked up (briefly) Columbus, OH which has to be close to 200 air miles and a Youngstown station I only get infrequently.

I got the first one to work, but not the second one.

You can click on the photo in your album for a share link like this one:
https://photos.google.com/share/AF1Q...xKMTY3RlRkVl93

You can also upload the photo as an attachment for your post, using Go Advanced, but it has to be smaller than 1024 x 1024. Your image is 1836 x 3264 pixels, so I edited it, gave you a credit line, uploaded it as an attachment, and then added it as an image to my post.

http://forum.tvfool.com/attachment.p...1&d=1505256907

This smaller image shows more of the tree in front of the antenna;

http://forum.tvfool.com/attachment.p...1&d=1505257968

That looks like a metal roof in your picture. I wonder if that affects reception. More height, which will get your farther away from the roof, probably can't hurt. My concern has to do with the age of the antenna, but more importantly the coax. I've heard that the coax performance can degrade over time, especially at connections. I would try switching to a high-quality RG-6 (you prabably have RG-59), and use new connections, perhaps before even trying a new antenna. When you do this, take some signal readings at the bottom of the down-lead first, then change the coax and re-do the readings to see if there is an improvement.

I don't know if antenna performance itself degrades over time (e.g. 25 years). I'd be interested to hear what other folks have to say about that.

Thanks, Rabbit73.
That tree is at least 200' (or more) away.

Hadn't thought about the metal roof.

Can't remember if we cut the cord before or after we put the roof on

When we put the new mast up a couple years ago, I noticed some oxidation on the connections.
Tried to clean them some but, maybe, not as good as it could have been.

I think I put new coax up at that time.
It's probably only a couple years old.
Raising the antenna at it's present location may give me challenges supporting it.

I had considered moving it to the peal of the house which is 20' to the left in the picture.
.
I would be able to gain another 5' or more and better support the mast and be higher than any part of the house.

Also, how do I measure the signal?
I've seen others use their TIVO but I don't have one.

My TV channel feature only gives me strong, good or weak

Ok, maybe it's not the coax then.

This seems like a good idea if you can manage it.
Check your manual(s). Many TVs have a more quantitative indication. These are often numerical values (rather than words like "strong", "good", or "weak"), but unfortunately the numbers are usually given as unitless so you don't really know what they're actually measuring anyway. Also, these numerical metrics are not generally comparable between brands and sometimes not even between model numbers within a given brand. There are some good ones out there though. One of the best ones I've seen is on my Sony Bravia, which shows the signal-to-noise-ratio in dB. An SNR of 15 dB or greater is typically needed to get picture. If you're thinking of a new TV soon, and want a better indication of signal quality, I recommend this model. (It had one of the best pictures of the displays on the wall at Best Buy as well...)

This TV is only a couple years old.
My wife is a bargain shopper so a really good TV is out of the question.

I'm, tentatively, getting the house sided in late fall.
That may be the time to move the antenna

Why is the Channel Master 3020 so much cheaper than the Winegard 8200u?

Not sure why the 3020 is ~$70 and the Winegard is $120 (amazon prices). The Winegard looks beefier, maybe that's part of it. BTW, It looks like your old antenna IS the CM-3020 though, no?

It's been so long that I just can't be sure.
I know I tried to get a good one because it was for my mom who didn't get out much due to age.

I'm guessing weather is a factor, too.
For example, if it's rainy, I lose a lot of stations.

And I get WJAC from Johnstown and WWCP from Altoona pretty well, usually.
But not the last couple days.

Sometimes, I can get 31 stations after a scan and sometimes only 19.
Average is 23-25.
They don't all always display, though.

That is a classic symptom of trees in the signal path.

What direction is the antenna aimed in the photo?

Guessing without a compass.
215-240.
New compass coming tomorrow or Friday that may be able to find north.
The last one varied by 30- degrees.

There are trees.
But, at least 100 yards away in that direction.
Or more.
I am slightly below the crest of a wooded hill, maybe 1/8th mile in the direction the antenna is pointing

Except for one tree across my driveway 50' almost north of the antenna, I am pretty clear for a ways around my house.
There are trees within 100" south and east.

Hope this is helpful info.

Thanks, again

WWCP and WJAC are coming from the SE, but you say your antenna is aimed SW.

I don't mean to be insulting, but which end of the antenna in the photo above do you think is the front of the antenna that you aim at the transmitters, the end at the left or the end at the right?

Please look at the photo in the PM (Private Message) I sent to you and tell me if I have the right house.

No insult taken.
I'm not the sharpest knife in this drawer.

I have always pointed the narrow end towards the signal.

In the picture posted above, the right side is W or wSW

Also, if you look at the green lines in the picture you PMed, starting at the left.

The top left line is a faint green, then there are 2 solid green lines.

The second solid line is a close approximation to the direction my antenna is pointing

Good. Thank you for the clarification.

That looks good to me. What confused me was there were no leaves on the trees across the road in the satellite view.

Hard to say when that image was taken

This is the image you said I could post, which shows the green signal lines:

https://i.imgur.com/a7xFuz1.jpg

For anyone who may be interested, there are 3 green lines on the left of the picture.
One faint at the top and 2 heavier.
Including the faint line, the 3rd line down is a close approximation to where my antenna is pointing.

Whatever direction that is

I tried different antenna heights, and it helps with some channels because of the rough terrain:

http://forum.tvfool.com/attachment.p...1&d=1505350619

Thank you.
Not sure what it's telling me unless the hills block or diffuse the signal?

Yes, that is exactly what happens.

The tvfool software for a report doesn't know about the trees or other ground clutter; it uses changes in elevation along the signal path to predict what will happen to the signal on its way to your antenna.

Is there a solution or something I live with?

In years past, WPXI came in reliably.
Now, maybe 50% of the time.

Also, up until a week or so ago, WJAC (Johnstown) and WWCP (Altoona) were also pretty reliable.

I can move the antenna slightly southward a few degrees and pick them up.
However, I lose some other stations.

I want my cake and eat it, too.

Last night I did a scan and got 31 stations.
Not all of them displayed well due to pixilation, specifically, WJAC.
WWCP came in well

I think you need to move the antenna around a bit (left, right, higher, whatever) to try and find better spots for reception. As rabbit will tell you, the best spot for reception is not necessarily the most convenient or aesthetically pleasing. It's easier with two people. One to hold the antenna and one at the TV checking signal strength.

Thanks, jrgagne99.

The antenna has been in that exact spot for 60 years.
If it was good enough for my dad, it should be good enough for me.

Just kidding.

When I replaced the mast a year or so ago, I increased the height a few feet

Yes, but you will not like it.
The trees are growing.
Your antenna is very directional. If you aim it for the SW channels, the SE channels will be too weak. If you aim it for the SE channels, the SW channels will be too weak.
Of course, we all do.

You need a rotator (which you don't want) or two antennas, one for each direction.

But before you do that, you should try a preamp at the antenna, as suggested by jrgagne99 in post #2. A preamp at the antenna is much more effective than a booster down below.

How long is the coax from the antenna to the CM3414 in the basement?
If your wife's favorite channels are all in the same direction, just make sure her TV is connected to the antenna for that direction. If your wife's channels are in two directions, it gets complicated. You will then need two coax lines to her TV and an A/B switch. An alternative would be to connect the second antenna to a separate tuner, with its output connected to the aux input of the TV.

If there is only one channel from the second antenna, then it could be combined into one coax with a custom (expensive) single channel inserter.
For best results, the antenna must be aimed at the transmitter; splitting the difference will not work for you.

Not arguing the point because I don't know but recent past results are different.
Just stating my personal experience.

I apologize and not trying to be obstinate.

That is one of the many things that confuse me.
Until a week or two ago, these channels came in adequately 80+% of the time.
I have not adjusted the direction in several months.

I know a rotor will improve reception.
But, how do I get performance from the 2 separate TVs that want to watch different stations?

For example one wants to watch WJAC and the other WPGH?

Another point is where the heck is north?
Apparently it moves around here on Peach Hill.

Just got my new better compass and anxiously went outside to get a true bearing of which way my antenna is pointed.

North moves 30-45 degrees while I'm holding the compass.

My best guess is I'm pointing 230 or so but who knows?

I understand.

The change in reception could be for more than one reason. The antenna might not be doing as well as when it was new and the trees are growing higher.
There is no need for you to apologize. We understand that you want good reception on all TVs, but there is no easy fix for reception from two different directions at your location.

Many of your signals are weak, which requires an antenna with a lot of gain. But, a high gain antenna is VERY directional.

http://forum.tvfool.com/attachment.p...1&d=1505428537
Trees like to grow taller in the summer. If the reception gets better after the leaves fall, it was the trees. If it doesn't get better, then it might be the antenna.
By making sure that each TV is connected to the right antenna for that TV.
WJAC NBC is SE; WPGH Fox is SW.
Just use the green signal lines on the satellite photo. They are oriented to true north, which is at the top of the photo.
Something is affecting your compass, like metal or another magnet. It should be more steady than that. Keep in mind that the compass points to magnetic north. There is a difference of 9 or 10 degrees between true north and magnetic north at your location.
The green signal lines know, use them as a reference with a landmark.

Can you give us a list of channels that are important to your wife so that we can see what direction they are in?

Here is a satellite image of your location with a 360 degree protractor to show azimuth directions of your signals:

http://forum.tvfool.com/attachment.p...1&d=1505436014

Does that help?

My wife wants the 4 major networks.
We have several choices for 3 of them.

ABC is kind of skinny.

Me, I watch the "sub" stations.
I like to watch Comet which is only available on 6-3 and Cozi, Movies and Retro which is only available on 60-1, 60-2 and 60-3.

That's where I always thought North was but neither of 2 compasses point near there with any regularity.

I guess my magnetic personality affects the compasses.

Just an update, of sorts.

I, now, have a helper and hope to move the antenna higher.
I have 2 more sections of mast.


The leaves are gone but reception has diminished and I am receiving fewer and fewer stations on my main TV.

There are 3 TVs in the house connected to the antenna and all get different stations.
The main TV is an Element and it is @ 2-3 years old.

Do you think some of the issues are related to the TV?
The other TVs are Dynex.

None are top of the line.

Thank you for any inputs