Help with reception improvements
I'm looking for some help with improving my reception. First off, here is my signal report.
http://www.tvfool.com/?option=com_wr...e2cb943bbbeca1 The station I'm having trouble with is WTVW. Best I'm getting is a 65% signal and fluctuates lower causing pixels and audio loss. I had the channel master stealth antenna about 30 feet high aimed at about 93%. Worked great until spring when the tree tops grew leaves. So I recently swapped out the antenna for the channel master extreme 80. I also kept it aimed at 93%. The new antenna improved the 3 channels I did not have a problem with but actually slightly degraded WTVW. I choose this antenna mainly for the high gain to hopefully help with the leaves on the tree tops. I have RG6 cable run from the antenna and connected to a grounded terminal outside. It then enters the house and goes to channel master 8-port signal distribution amplifier so I can send it to my multiple HDhomeruns and TV's. The total cable run is less than 50'. I do not notice any drop outs on TV but I do on the HDhomeruns which makes me think the tuners in the HDHR's are of lesser quality. These are the original HDHR Duals that use 2 cable connections. I thought about moving the antenna on top of the house strapped to the chimney. That would actually get me maybe an additional 5 to 10' but probably won't totally clear the tree tops which would probably grow higher next year anyway. Currently the antenna is mounted to a 2 section tower and a 10' mast. So about 30' high. I do also have a scanner antenna, the Antennacraft ST2 scanner antenna. It is mounted just below, within a foot of the Extreme 80. Is it possible the scanner antenna is causing some interference? My other thought for improvement was to try a pre-amp but with the other channels so strong, I thought the pre-amp would actually hurt those signals. My last thought was to get newer HDHR's but don't know if the tuners in the newer models would be better than the older model I have. Thanks for your time everyone. |
Try aiming your CM4228HD directly at the problem channel instead of trying to split some difference. Fix the evident problem first, then adjust for best overall results. Repeat as needed, adapting each time. Repeat next year when the trees leaf out again.
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It would be real simple if WTVW was VHF, then I could point a VHF at it and UHF at the others. But is it possible to combine 2 UHF antennas? |
I think that you stumbled on to your answer inadvertently when you aimed at WTVW and lost the other stations: the bandwidth of the 4228HD is narrow enough to exclude signals that are that far off-axis. Since the signal strength of the stations in your area should be sufficient, my best guess is that you have chosen the wrong antenna. It looks as if you are facing a multipath issue that is preventing you from getting all your channels with one antenna direction.
I believe that the answer to this issue is to get an antenna like an AntennasDirect DB8e, whose 2 panels can be aimed in different directions to get signals that lie in different axes. The DB8e has 2-four bay arrays than can be split on a built-in hinge to be aimed in different directions. Get one, aim it according to your compass at 100 degrees and 75 degrees, and your problem should be solved. If you then have a problem with VHF channel 7, ABC (WEHT) and Channel , PBS, (WNIN), consider adding a Stellar Labs 8 element VHF yagi (model 30-2475) aimed at 95 degrees to pick up those stations. Good Luck! |
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Their 180 degree claim just means it will receive signals from the front and not the back. Winegard and Antennas Direct have more integrity, they state beamwidth and show antenna patterns of gain vs azimuth. Here are the patterns of the original 4221 and 4228: http://forum.tvfool.com/attachment.p...1&d=1471887301 http://forum.tvfool.com/attachment.p...1&d=1471887301 You can see that the 4228 beamwidth is much more narrow, AND there is a null each side of center where the other direction (about 22 deg difference) falls to make the other signals much weaker. You would have been better off getting the 4221HD or the Antennas Direct DB4e, and aiming between. |
Rabbit73, thank you very much for your detailed explanation. I guess I will get back on the roof and put my old stealth antenna back up while I return the Extreme 80 and get the DB8E.
Thanks everyone. |
Hey Rabbit, where did you get those images? I'd like to find one for channel master's stealth antenna.
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This also applies to the two sections of the DB8e. ADTech, who works for Antennas Direct and gives good advice here, says it is most likely to work when the two directions are at right angles (90 deg apart). You must consider it a trial-and-error experiment. If you don't get all the channels after combining that you had when the antennas were separate, it does not work at your location. The DB8e patterns are here: https://www.antennasdirect.com/cmss_files/attachmentlibrary/Technical%20Data%20PDF's/DB8E-TDS.pdf Quote:
http://www.hdtvprimer.com/antennas/comparing.html 4221 http://www.hdtvprimer.com/ANTENNAS/cm4221.html 4228 http://www.hdtvprimer.com/ANTENNAS/cm4228.html temporary page for 4228HD http://www.hdtvprimer.com/ANTENNAS/TemporaryPage.html |
Rabbit, so would you also recommend the DB8e for my application? The furthest towers are 27 degrees apart.
Edit: After looking at Antennas Direct, I'm wondering if I wouldn't be better served by the Clearstream 2V. Opinions, thoughts anyone? |
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The two antenna solution that I suggest is the DB4e for UHF and the MCM 30-2475 as suggested by Tigerbangs combined with a UVSJ. |
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So I'm trying to learn more to make the right decision. I was researching the Winegard HD7694P rabbit suggested and found this link.
http://www.winegard.com/kbase/uploads/HD7694P.pdf Am I safe in assuming the chart at the end of the pdf is showing me the beam-width I can expect for the given channels? So considering if the widest width between UHF channels 45,46 and 28 is 21 degrees, I would look at the chart for channels 14 and 50 and see that I would have a beam-width of 61 to as little as 46 degrees? I'm also assuming the gain is more than sufficient for the distance? Is the gain something I can use to help with distance? Or will that just help with signals being blocked by leaves? I'm just tired of climbing on the roof and want to make the best choice. I don't mind the two antenna solution if I would get better long term results. Just didn't want to spend that much more if the HD7694P would be more than enough. |
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At least we have convinced you that the 4228HD has a beamwidth that is too narrow for the two directions at the same time. |
Rabbit,
Thanks. I understand you can't give any guarantees. I put the channel master stealthtenna (cm-3010hd) back up last night. I wanted to get the 4228hd down and back in the box while I wait and hopefully get an rma. Signal is good with that antenna, just wtvw sometimes drops out. It's aimed at about 93 degrees and approx 30 feet in the air on a tower. There are some trees in the way. I will try and get a pic tonight when I get home. I won't be able to get a pic from the actual antenna view, but the tower is up against a flat roof and I can get a shot from about 20 feet. The top of the tower is chest height, almost 20 feet at that point. From there I have a 20 foot telescope pole extended maybe 15 feet. Thanks again and I will post a pic tonight. |
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Attached is a pic showing the direction the antenna is pointing. The antenna is about 30ish feet high. The trees are about 100 feet away.
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Thank you for the photo; it helps a lot.
http://forum.tvfool.com/attachment.p...5&d=1472050455 I was wondering about that wire. Is it a power line wire? If it is close to the antenna and you have a high level of power line noise, it might affect TV reception, but it is more likely to affect VHF (ABC) before it would affect UHF. http://forum.tvfool.com/attachment.p...6&d=1472050615 |
FYI. The small clearing just to the right of the antenna is WFIE, WEHT and WEVV. THe tree tops to the far left is WTVW.
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When you put the STEALTHtenna back up it had the beamwidth needed, but not enough gain for a location below the tree tops. Quote:
Forum member MikeBear had a similar problem with trees. When he raised his antenna above the trees, he lost reception of all channels. He thought his CM7777 preamp had gone bad, but it was just overloaded. He replaced it with a lower gain preamp and he was then OK. http://forum.tvfool.com/showpost.php...6&postcount=45 |
That is a powerline that went to a house next door. That house is gone and that powerline goes to a pole on the opposite side of my yard but is disconnected. There won't be another house there.
Yes, the stealthtenna picks up WFIE, WEVV and WEHT just fine. Using the HDHR tuners, those stations run at 85% or greater with 95% to 100% signal quality and symbol. The problem is with WTVW which is to the left. It gets about 65% to 68% strength and drops out often. The antenna is aimed about 90 to 95 degrees, give or take a few degrees. I thought about going higher, I do have another 10 foot tower section, but I would have to use some guy wire which I'm trying to avoid. No good place for the west guy wire. Plus it's already too close to the old powerlines. Right now if the tower fell in that direction it would barley clear the lines. The other choice is moving the antenna to a chimney mount on the house. But the house is about 100 years old and has the old style rounded bricks. It's only about 3 feet from the ridge so maybe best I can do is a 10' pole, but probably safer with a 5' pole. That would put me at about 30' high also but maybe 30' further North. |
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