AntennaCraft HD1850 vs. Winegard HD8200U for attic with VHF-LO in L.A. exurbs; preamp
 

Hi, I'd appreciate some advice on choosing between an AntennaCraft HD1850 and a Winegard HD8200U for an attic installation with VHF-LO and FM reception on top of VHF-HI and UHF.

Also, it'd be great to hear thoughts on whether to preamp with the Channel Master CM-7777 Titan2 or the Antennas Direct PA18.

(I've already ruled out the ChannelMaster CM-5020 and CM-3020 after reading skeptical reviews on this site and elsewhere, and I'm hesitant on the Denny's Antennas HD Stacker after reading other users' concerns about its design and lack of documentation.)

This is my TVFool report:

http://www.tvfool.com/?option=com_wr...46ae2699a37f8f

It's a hilly area, about 30 miles out from Mt. Wilson, in the Los Angeles exurbs / far suburbs / bedroom community.


Current Setup

This is my current setup, starting with the antenna in the attic, about 20' above ground level:

Clearstream 2V --> 6' RG-6/QS --> RCA 4-Way Signal Amplifier (Audiovox, VH140R, 10 dB gain claimed) --> 125' RG-6/TS ? --> [home run to structured wiring panel] RCA 4-Way digital splitter (Audiovox, DH44SPR) (A, B, C, D)

(split A) --> 100' RG-6/TS ? --> wall plate F-type coupler --> 6' RG-6/QS --> TiVo Premiere
(split B) --> 75' RG-6/TS ? --> wall plate F-type coupler --> 12' RG-6/QS --> HDTV with built-in ATSC tuner
(split C) --> 50' RG-6/TS ? --> wall plate F-type coupler --> 6' RG-6/QS --> TiVo Premiere
(split D, terminated until it's needed) --> 75' RG-6/TS ? --> wall plate F-type coupler --> 6' RG-6/QS --> HDTV with built-in ATSC tuner

After reading through many posts here, I'm guessing that I lose

* 9 db per 125' of RG6 on the home run from the antenna to the wiring panel
* 10 db at the splitter, and
* then up to 7 db on the long 100' run to the Split A TiVo,

so I think I need a preamp with ~25 db gain.


Which Preamp to Buy?

I now realize that instead of the VH140R amp, I should be using a preamp like the cheap but solid RCA TVPRAMP1R, or the more expensive Channel Master CM-7777 Titan2 or the Antennas Direct PA18 (their replacement for the discontinued CPA19).

The Winegard LNA200 got a poor review by Pete Higgins, and the Winegard AP-8700 and AP-8275 seems to be discontinued. The AntennaCraft 10G202 and the weaker cousin 10G201 get bad reviews. (Does that sound about right?) Also, the 10G222 and 10G221 wouldn't work because I will be using a single antenna.

I plan on buying one of those. Anybody have thoughts on which preamp would be best for this situation?

Also, with the gain coming from the preamp I will install, I do not believe I will need a distribution / line amp like the CM-3414 to replace the splitter. Does that sound right?



Current Antenna Situation

The antenna is located in the attic for functional, aesthetic, and safety reasons. I understand all the problems with attic installation. The antenna simply will not be mounted on the roof.

Currently, with very careful positioning of the Clearstream 2V by compass (87 degrees magnetic) and by spirit level ("bubble level") to ~5 or 10 degrees tilt above horizontal, and much fine-tuning, I was finally able to achieve stable picture and audio on the "Split A" TiVo, with almost all major channels (virtual 2, 4, 5, 7, 11, 13, 28, 50, and 58 -- and the evangelical / home shopping / Spanish / Korean/Vietnamese/Chinese/Japanese / Armenian stations). For most of those channels, the TiVo signal meter indicates "signal strength" of between 40 and 70. Unfortunately the picture and audio on virtual 9.x (real 9) breaks up too much to be watchable, and virtual 56.x (real 32) has annoying pixelation every minute. (With earlier positioning attempts, I would lose virtual 4.x (real 36) or virtual 13.x (real 13).)

The bottom line is that the Clearstream 2V does not offer enough gain for my attic installation and I've decided to buy a very large antenna for the attic.

I would like one with VHF-LO elements to capture low-power VHF stations KVTU-LP (international sports on the "America One" network) and KRVD-LP (PBS alternate), and also to bring in FM radio signals that will be fed to an AVR with integrated FM radio tuner.

Given that the big antennas should improve reception dramatically over the Clearstream 2V (which manages to draw in good reception already) and the fairly good signal report for my location from TVFool, I don't think I need to be focused on specific aim gain numbers. Instead I think I'd prefer to just install a huge hunk of metal and see what it draws in in additon to the the Mt. Wilson major stations. Maybe I'll get some random San Diego or Palm Springs or San Bernadino / Riverside stations.


Which Antenna to Buy?

Based on what I've read, and the lack of technical documentation available, I think I'm right to rule out the CM-5020 and CM-3020 (good idea?). I'm also not interested in a Yagi, since I don't want to deal with the hurdles of combining and placing two antennas and an HLSJ/UVSJ. Since I want VHF-LO, I'd rather just install one metal beast that does everything.

I have also leaned heavily against the AntennaCraft HBU55 and the Winegard HD7698P, because they do not have VHF-LO elements, only VHF-HI and UHF. Likewise, the Channel Master CM-3671 is apparently discontinued and 'out of the picture'.

In addition, I dismissed the Winegard HD7084P, because if I'm going to install a monster, I may as well go a little bigger and a little more expensive for the HD8200U. Also, the HD8200U offers more dB gain over a reference dipole with only a small loss of beamwidth and front-to-back ratio.

The same rationale applies to why I would choose an AntennaCraft HD1850 over an HD1200.

So, as far as I can tell, that seems to leave me with the AntennaCraft HD1850 and a Winegard HD8200U !

I just want an easy install, relatively good performance, and to "set it and forget it".

Any thoughts are appreciated! Thanks for reading.


p.s. Here's my FM fool analysis in case it has an effect because of VHF-LO elements on the antenna.
http://www.fmfool.com/index.php?opti...pper&Itemid=29


tl;dr: I want a big antenna for VHF-LO, FM, VHF-HI, and UHF. Would like thoughts on HD1850, HD8200U, and others. Also would like thoughts on a preamp to compensate for 25db losses on cable runs and splitter.

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I have No Words and No Advice that will make a Tv antenna work in a attic , no matter what.

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Install a , http://www.antennacraft.net , HD1800 all channel antenna aimed at about 94 degree magnetic compass direction.

Here is how to aim antennas , http://www.kyes.com/antenna/pointing/pointing.html.

Use a Real and Actual magnetic compass to aim antenna.

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Install the HD1800 all channel antenna Above the Peak of the Roof in such a manner that the roof and building are not , obstructing , impeding , blocking , reception in the directions of , East South East and North West.

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Here are some above the roof antenna mounts.

http://www.ronard.com/909911.html.
Use the , ronard(911) , 5 foot tripod antenna mount.

http://www.ronard.com/34424560.html.
Install a , ronard(4560) , eave antenna mount.

http://www.ronard.com/ychim.html.
Measure around the chimney and use a , ronard(2212) , ronard(2218) , ronard(2224) .

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Install a , RCA TVPRAMP1R preamp.

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For 1 Tv connected use No splitter.

For 2 Tv's connected use a , Holland Electronics , HFS-2D , 2 way splitter.

For 3 Tv's connected use a , Holland Electronics , HFS-3D , 3 way splitter.

For 4 Tv's connected use a , Holland Electronics , HFS-4D , 4 way splitter.

Buy the , HFS-2D , HFS-3D , HFS-4D , splitters at , http://www.solidsignal.com , or , http://www.hollandelectronics.com.

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As always , trees and tree leaves , plants and plant leaves , have a Negative Effect on , OTA=Over the Air , Broadcast Tv Reception and so do buildings and other obstructions including your own roof and building.

Some and not all Negative Effects are.

Absorbing and Blocking , Tv Reception.

Multi-Path Reflecting Tv Signals Bouncing All Around.

The Best Practice is to install the HD1800 antenna at a location trhat has the least amount to no amount of obstructions of any type or kind in the directions of reception including your own roof and building.

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The Tv's Must Channel Scan for the , OTA=Over The Air , ATSC - Digital Broadcast Tv Stations/Channels , often named the ~ DTV Channels ~ Antenna Channels ~ Air Channels ~ in the Tv Setup Menu Because the Tv transmissions travel through the Air from the transmitting antenna to the receiving antenna.

Some digital tv's will Automatic channel scan for cable tv channels.

DO NOT channel scan for cable tv channels.

Go into the Tv Setup Menu and select ~ DTV Channels ~ Antenna Channels ~ Air Channels ~.

Channel scan for the , ATSC - Digital Broadcast Tv Stations/Channels.

Given that choice, there are many variables not considered in your TVFR. Mounting an antenna in an attic is like trying to take good outdoor photos from indoors... If the glass is clean and free of distortion, you can get away with it, but if the window is dirty and the blinds are down, it won't matter how much you spent on the camera and lens.

The spec-sheets for each antenna considered are helpful, but the unknowns of the final install site force you to experiment. The differences between each of the antennas is slight and may be affected by the de-tuning effects of nearby construction materials...

I would avoid the CM-7777 and PA-18 for fear of overloading. They are intended for weak signal applications. The TVPRAMP1R is far more tolerant of strong signal inputs. I generally warn against the use of two or more amplifiers, though in a few cases, have seen good results. http://forum.tvfool.com/showthread.php?t=13659

Thanks John

Thanks for the feedback on the preamp, Ground.

I'll see how the tuners do with just the preamp before looking into a line amp if necessary.