In Need of Some Advice Going OTA
 

Greetings to all!

I am working on completion of a Media Center system to use with my TV. The area where I need the help and advice is in setting up my OTA TV reception. It is relevant to state that I live on a disability pension so my budget has extremely little in the way of discretionary spending money in it.

Here is a link to my signal analysis report: http://www.tvfool.com/?option=com_wr...b97dd2934e6e14

Currently, I'm using a RCA 1450BF multi-directional antenna hung on the northwest wall of my apartment at approximately 327 degrees (magnetic). This provides a barely adequate signal in good weather, degrading to an almost completely unreadable signal if the sun is not shining. This antenna is being used in conjunction with a generic U1620A USB TV tuner dongle.

What I have planned is to acquire a Monoprice HDA-5700 Indoor/Outdoor antenna and mount it to the ceiling in my living room with the antenna oriented toward the strongest signal (by my reckoning, about 341 degrees (magnetic)), connect the antenna to the low noise pre-amplifier that comes with the antenna, thence to a Monoprice model 106456 USB TV Tuner dongle that will be connected to the Media Center system. My estimated costs for the hardware is around 65.00.

My questions to all of you are: 1) Does the plan that I have outlined seem like a reasonable proposition that will work? And 2) Can I achieve a similar or an even better response with different hardware for the same or maybe even less money?

Thanks for taking the time to read my post and I look forward to reading your responses!:D

Don't. Lousy antenna with a lousy amp. There are way better options out there.

Wrong direction. The majority of your signals come from near Ankenny which is NNE of you. WOI operates a UHF translator from your ESE. Do you have a window that faces the requisite direction? If so, that's going to be your "best option" for reliable reception.

Did your RCA antenna come with an amp? Is it in use?

Have you tried the RCA oriented in both the horizontal and the vertical orientations, rotating it in various directions as needed?

Thanks for the Insights!
 

Thanks for your guidance AD Tech! Sounds like you may have saved me from some serious frustration!

Since the Monoprice HDA-5700 Indoor/Outdoor antenna isn't your idea of what a decent indoor antenna is, what would you recommend in the same price range? :confused:

The only window in my apartment's living room is a southern exposure at about 176 degrees (magnetic). I did have the RCA antenna stuck in this window for some time, but the same lousy reception issues I've already described happened when the antenna was there as they are with the antenna secured to the adjacent wall (its current location). In both cases the antenna is/was oriented in the vertical plane. I have not ever tried orienting it in the horizontal plane. Do you think that might work better? As the RCA antenna that I have is a flat panel that came with its own small amp (which I have always used as it doesn't seem to work at all without it), I'm uncertain at this point about how to build a rig to suspend it from the ceiling in either a vertical OR a horizontal orientation AND provide it with some rotational freedom to really 'zero' in on the strongest signal and then lock it down at that point. It is said that necessity is the mother of invention though, so I reckon I'll sit down with a sketch pad and try to come up with some Rube Goldberg contraption. ;-) I am supposing that drilling through the corners of the antenna's plastic shell would generally be regarded as a knucklehead play, right? :eek:

I'm eager to hear back from you AD Tech. I THINK I answered all the questions you had for right now!

Best regards,:cool:

Welcome, DarkStar:

I agree with ADTech on the Monoprice and the direction. I found links for the RCA antenna but I couldn't find a link for the USB tuner.
http://www.rcaantennas.net/indoor-hd...?sku=ANT1450BF
http://www.rcaantennas.net/docs/comm...T1450BF_OM.pdf

You will need to try it in different locations and different positions.
Not unless you know what is inside. Maybe you can construct a plastic cradle and clamp for it that wouldn't block the signals.

Since I don't know the specs of the amp, it is possible that it might be overloaded, if not by your strong TV signals, then maybe by your even stronger local FM signals:
http://www.fmfool.com/modeling/tmp/0...3/Radar-FM.png
Is your apartment on the ground floor or the second floor? Does the window have a metal screen or low-E glass?

If you are not able to receive WOI for ABC on real channel 50, it might be possible to construct a simple antenna for WOI on real channel 5 and integrate it with your UHF/VHF antenna.

I see a lot of trees in your area. Trees and buildings block signals.

The RCA antenna is a very simple low gain antenna coupled with an amp that tries to make up for its low efficiency. If we can't help you get the RCA going, it will be necessary to upgrade to an antenna that has more gain before the amp.

In my experience, if you are on the "wrong" side of a building, you're often out of luck as the only signals that can get to any ill-located antenna either are going to be hopelessly attenuated by the penetration losses from passing through the building, reflected off external objects in haphazard ways, or they simply get shredded from the unfortunate combination of whatever signal finally makes it to the antenna's location. In all, it's simply potluck for reception when you're under those type of conditions and I consider it to be impossible to predict reception reliably.

My favorite "indoor" antenna is an outdoor antenna that is used indoors. Sometimes, size does matter! ;) Our ClearStream 2V is my overwhelming favorite but it's not right for everyone due to its size and it doesn't meet your price point objectives.

In the inexpensive indoor antenna realm that I've tested, and I have tested most of them, there's a lot of junk and a few unrecognized gems. For the "thin" antennas, the best overall UHF performance is provided by our Eclipse, but its design isn't optimal for VHF and you do need VHF in Des Moines. Runner-up compromise candidates would not be the flat thin antennas available from any of the brands found in retail stores, you'd have to order it. You can keep your existing amp, it's likely good enough for general purpose use. I'll send you a private message with my suggestion, please keep its identity private. If you go that route, let us know how it turns out.

I do. ;) He won't overload it. It one of the very few amps that actually passed my CEA-2032A and CEA-774B tests and it has a decent enough FM filter.

Good; maybe he can use it with another antenna like the C2V.

Thanks for the welcome Rabbit73 and the advice is always welcome especially considering I hardly have a clue. Actually, my apartment is on the 3rd (top) floor of the building and so, thankfully, puts me above most of the obstructions I am able to see (Windsor Heights is primarily residential). As far as selction of the antenna goes and deciding whether or not I going to spring for a more powerful preamp is pretty much on hold right now. I want to see what youse guys decide would be the best indoor type antenna in my price range and/or what kind of a Rube Goldberg gizmo I can gin up to mount my 1450BF to the ceiling and make it so it can be adjusted in a wide an arc as possible. But before I get too carried away with THAT notion, I'm going to have to try orienting the antenna horizontally to determine if that does anything significant to improve its performance. TRUST ME on this: Youse guys will be VERY MUCH in the loop all the way through this grand adventure we're about to embark on!

Hey AD Tech!

Just had a look-see at the Clear Stream 2V antenna you think so highly of. It is a little on the pricey side for my budget especially since upgrading the antenna and/or preamp is sort of a crap shoot proposition at best. Still, I want to leave no stone unturned in pursuit of the best OTA signal I can reasonably get! I'm looking forward to your PM containing you thoughts, but I absolutely got it that mum's the word! If you'd 'druther, you are also welcome to email me at lorddarkstarx (at) gmail (dot),,,well you know the rest! ;-)

Good morning gentlemen!

Was just snooping around EBay when I came across a more powerful pre-amplifier than the one I have currently. It is an RCA AMP1450R for 14.00. Was just curious to know what your thoughts were on this as my pre-amp?

Also: Took my RCA 1450BF off the wall and laid it horizontally on the back of my TV stand, immediately behind my TV. I was somewhat surprised by the increased clarity of the signal I began receiving! Whoda thunk something so simple could yield such a marked improvement? Will wait for a spate of bad weather now to ascertain if the performance improvement will persist or not.

It's the same amp as you already have which should be adequate for your purposes. There is no need for you to replace it.

Oh. OK, thanks. No need going over the same old ground!

Translation please. It's been a long time since high school Latin.

Loosely translates into something like: "those who think evil, are evil".

Not bad Mike! Kudos for remembering your Latin!

Actually it's: Evil to him that thinks evil (thoughts), but more evil to him that does evil (things). It is an Anglo-Norman maxim translated from the Old French: Honi soit qui mal y pense. THAT may look more familiar to any true anglophiles among us!

Sorry, my family was Saxon! Not Anglo-Saxon, and earlier than Anglo-Norman. My mother was from Transylvania, specifically, Siebenburgen.

How Kewl! I know my mother's family was French Huguenot that finally settled in Louisiana after getting kicked out of Canada, but know little of my father's family. Do you get to claim any kinship to Vlad Tepes?

My folks are from Virginia, and I don't have a clue what ya'll be talking 'bout.

To be honest Rick, what we're talking about is family history, which is way off topic for this forum. Sorry! We old guys sometimes get carried away on clouds of nostalgia.

No, though I work nights, and live my life at night, lol.

Howdy all

Hope everyone had a great thanksgiving.

The weather in Des Moines today is light rain/Freezing Rain. Thought I would monkey with my antenna some more. The antenna was sitting on top of the computer's bass speaker, but I now have it sitting at roughly a 30 degree angle (from vertical) and pointed approximately 327 degrees (magnetic). This is what the digital TV signal analyzer app I found for my smart phone indicates the 'prime' signals are coming from.

This is the breakdown of the channels I am and am not able to receive:

KKCI N S to Spotty/Pixelated
IPTV Spotty/Pixelated
WHO Spotty/Pixelated
COMET (17) OK
KDMI OK
IPTV (21.1) N S
KCWI OK
KEFB N S
ION N S
WOI N S

This all leaves me scratching my head. Would I be better off with a better antenna OR would a more powerful pre-amp alone perhaps solve the problem?

A more "powerful" amplifier is NEVER the solution except when that additional gain is actually required to overcome additional downstream signal loss form cabling or splitters. It is NEVER needed when working with an indoor antenna hooked up to a single TV set.

You need a better location for your antenna or, barring that, a better antenna that will improve your odds. Notice I didn't say it would be a miracle cure, I said it would improve your odds.

KCCI, real channel 8? Your antenna probably isn't very good for VHF-High channels.
That's not an OTA callsign; we need a callsign, not internet
Do you have IPTV combined with OTA?
real channel 13; same comment as for KCCI
Need a callsign; KDSM?
That's not an OTA callsign
weaker; different direction
KFPX ION 39; weaker, different direction. The antenna must be aimed at the transmitter. You will not be able to receive channels from all directions with only one antenna aim
that is on real channel 5, which is a VHF-Low channel; not gonna happen without a bigger antenna
http://www.rabbitears.info/search.ph...pe=dBm&height=
You don't need a smart phone telling you what direction for the antenna aim, you need a tuner telling you signal strength, and signal quality as defined by Signal to Noise Ratio (SNR) and uncorrected errors.
I'm also scratching my head. Why do you have IPTV mixed in with OTA callsigns?
Better antenna.

IPTV is Iowa Public TV...

Thanks.
http://site.iptv.org/

Would that be KDIN on real channel 11? That antenna isn't very good for VHF-High.

What is IPTV 21.1? If it's KTIN it's way too weak, and Tropo.

Hokay! I think I created more confusion than I eliminated, but at least now I know that a bigger pre-amp is NOT the answer to the problem. Based on that insight I ordered a ChannelMaster FLATenna 35 (mod. CM 4001 HD) in the hopes THAT will improve my signal capturing ability. Failing that, then I will have to escalate to the 50.00 CM antenna.

Now to the matter of the channels: The information I gave you was from the information the computer generated guide gave ME. The reason I subsume, that I was given this list of channels is because they are channels whose signals were detected by the combination of my extant antenna, pre-amp and TV tuner/dongle which were then fed into Window's Media Center software. The OTA channels I am supposed to have the capability of receiving are: WOI as channel 5, KCCI as channel 8 and it's - I don't know the correct terminology - 'sub-channels'? 8.2 and 8.3, Iowa Public Television (IPTV) as channel 11(KDIN)- out of Des Moines, but also as channel 21(KTIN) out of Fort Dodge and its sub-channels 11.2 and 11.3, etc, WHO as channel 13 and its sub-channels 13.2 and 13.3, KCWI (f.k.a. KDMI) as channel 19 and its sub channels - which for reasons that are completely obscure to me, show up again as channel 23 and its sub-channels, then there is KEFB as channel 34 and its sub channels and finally ION-HD and its sub channels. There are also some shopping channels listed, but I could give less of a fig about them.

Out of all of these channels, the ones I am particularly wanting to be able to receive are KCCI and KDIN. Being able to receive ION-HD would be a nice bonus, but one that I could just as easily live without.

I surely hope this is more helpful than my last post. :-/

Don't get your hopes up; I doubt that it will do any better than the RCA; it's just another flat antenna. I hope that you are buying antennas that can be returned, otherwise you are going to waste a lot of money.
What model is that, this one?
http://www.channelmaster.com/SMARTen.../cm-3000hd.htm

The channels that you want are VHF-High channels, real channels 7-13. Flat antennas don't do very well with VHF-High signals.

AFAIK, that list was based on your ZIP Code. WMC doesn't know that you are buying antennas that aren't very good for VHF-High channels. WMC doesn't know that you don't have an antenna for real channel 5. WMC doesn't know that your antenna is indoors.
https://www.google.com/?gws_rd=ssl#q...ls+from+zap2it

how to add missing channels to windows media center
https://www.google.com/?gws_rd=ssl#q...s+media+center

Did you work out an arrangement with ADTech by PM for a suitable antenna?

Are you willing to experiment with a DIY folded dipole antenna for your most wanted channels?

http://i496.photobucket.com/albums/r...psna1exzcg.jpg

http://users.wfu.edu/matthews/misc/dipole.html

CH11, 198-204 MHz, center frequency 201 MHZ
5540/291 = 27.6 inches long for dipole

CH5, 76-82 MHz, center frequency 79 MHz
5540/79 = 70.1 inches

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/North_...on_frequencies

or would rather experiment with an antenna that you can return like the GE 24792 Attic Antenna, which Walmart has or
http://www.amazon.com/GE-24792-Anten...+attic+antenna

No guarantee it will work which is why you need to be able to return it.
Correct
Click on this link
http://www.rabbitears.info/search.ph...pe=dBm&height=

and click on KDMI

Your original post said you had your Monoprice HDA-5700 pointed at 327 degrees magnetic.

On Nov 24th you said that laying it near the TV was better.

Today you said again that you have it pointed at 327 degrees magnetic.

Fox, This, ABC, CBS, NBC, CW and PBS are all at about 18 degrees magnetic.

What happens if you aim the flat side at 18 degrees?

Can you try this and report?

Try it holding it high, low and everywhere in between.

My Latest Antenna Solution
 

Based on my discussions here on the forum, I decided to try a Channel Master CM-4001 FLATenna with and without my small RCA pre-amplifier. I have just finished the frame I will be using to hold the CM-4001 so that I can rotate it through roughly 270 degrees of rotation, seeking out the strongest signals in the process. I have included some pictures.

The weather tomorrow promises to be rainy with intermittent thunderstorms so it should be a good test of the antenna's mettle!

I'll keep you all posted as the results are analyzed.:cool:

Hello All!

Just a quick update: I connected my Channel Master FLATenna to my TV and set it to point toward 103 degrees (magnetic) and the picture is perfection WITHOUT a preamp! And in foul weather no less! Many, many thanks to ADTech AND to Rabbit73 for their encouragement and sage wisdom. Stick a fork in it, 'cause this turkey's done! LOL

See y'all around the forms.

Best regards,

Frank (a.k.a. DarkStar)