New Antenna No Signal - Need Help!
 

First, here is the link to my signal analysis:

http://www.tvfool.com/?option=com_wr...1ddae813d84d07

I recently canceled cable and decided to buy an antenna. I live on a hill and about 2 miles from our closest towers.

My house has 5 coaxial feeds all run (home run) to a main splitter in the basement next to my service box. This is where the old cable line fed in. I ran all the cable myself and used quad shield RG-6 cable. I currently only have 2 televisions hooked up in the house.

Originally I bought a cheap indoor/outdoor antenna with a built in preamp and set it up in the attic. I ran a coaxial from the attic, through a interior wall (in a gray conduit) and then into the basement and inputted into the splitter. I connected the preamp power injector in the basement, just before the splitter. The total cable run b/w the splitter and antenna is probably around 50', maybe less.

This setup initially worked great, I got the local tower channels and also channels 50+ miles away (to the west). After a while I started randomly having problems with the signal completely dropping and I'd have to go to the attic and adjust the antenna to get it working again.

I decided to buy a roof mounted antenna. After reading positive reviews I bought the RCA751 and the TVPRAMP1R. I used the same setup only ran my coaxial that was in the attic through my ridge vent to the roof. I mounted the antenna and preamp on the supplied J-Mount. I hooked up the power injector to the same location in the basement.

After I got everything set up I scanned the channels and got NOTHING, no signal at all, not even from the towers 2 miles away.

I did some research and found that there have been some issues with the matching transformer that came with the antenna so I purchased a new RCA matching transformer with gold leads and installed that today. Still nothing. It will not find one channel.

At this point I'm at a loss. I've done plenty of research on this and am fairly certain that I have everything hooked up correctly. I cannot figure out what is wrong.

I have attached pictures of my roof setup. If there are any other pictures needed, let me know and I will post them.

My only other thought is that there has to be an issue with the coaxial wire but it was previously working so I'm not sure. I figured even with some issues I'd still at least get the towers 2 miles away, but yet not one channel comes in.

Please, I need some advice on my next step to resolve this. I will provide any further information needed.

Thank you all in advance

What direction are you aiming? 270ish? Not that it much matters for those that are so close to you.

First thing I'd do is try the most simple install, removing all other factors. If you can, run a single drop from the antenna to a single TV and scan for channels. Make sure you have the TV set to OTA & not cable. From there tweak until you get the best reception, then change out to the permanent cable run. See how that works for the same TV, then connect the splitter, and if the split is too much loss for reliable reception for all TV's, then connect the preamp.

I have it aimed at 274 degrees.

Do you think if I removed the preamp and just ran the line I have fed into the basement directly into a tv in the basement that would work?

I don't have enough cable to run a new drop line to test. I could buy some if i had to.

If that works then I would assume there may be a problem with the preamp correct?

I will run the tests you suggested tomorrow afternoon and let you know what I come up with.

Thank You!

I see a coil of coax at the antenna.

Connect the coiled coax to the matching transformer.

Disconnect and bypass the preamp unit at the antenna.

Disconnect and bypass the power injector.

Disconnect and bypass the power supply.

Bypass the splitter , connect one Tv.

Reception now??

_______

If not then install a New coax from the matching transformer to the 1 Tv.

As a Test to prove reception , connect a New coax from the matching transformer to 1 Tv.

No couplers of any type or kind , No splitters , No electronics , No nothing.

It is the , Antenna , Matching transformer , coax , Tv.

Thats it , Nothing else.

Reception Now??

__________________________

As always , the Tv Must Channel Scan for the Digital Broadcast Tv stations/channels , often named the 'Air Channels' or 'Antenna Channels' in the Tv Setup menu because the Tv transmissions travel through the Air from the transmitting antenna to the receiving antenna.

Some Digital Tv's will automatic channel scan for cable tv channels.

DO NOT channel scan for cable tv channels.

Go into the Tv Setup menu and select the , 'Air Channels' / 'Antenna Channels'.

Digital Tv tuners can develop - Digital Glitches - that are not cleared out with simple channel scans.

Do a Double Channel Scan.

http://www.dtv.gov/rescan.html.

Here is how to aim antennas , http://www.kyes.com/antenna/pointing/pointing.html.

Thank you for all the suggestions.

I just got done troubleshooting and trying to isolate the issue.

This is what I did:

I ran a new coaxial line outside, through a bedroom window and directly into a TV. I bypassed the preamp and ran this directly to the antenna. I got reception. Not only my towers 2 miles away but also towers 50+ miles away.

I then ran the outside line into the preamp and connected the antenna to the preamp through the jumper cable I had. I kept the outside line run directly into the TV and plugged in the power injector right at the TV. NOTHING. Then I unplugged the power injector I got a signal again.

With that I figured I discovered my issue but I wanted to test the main line going through the ridge vent to the basement splitter.

So I hooked everything up as it was using the main feed through the attic to the basement (hooking everything up through the preamp as its shown in the pics). The only thing I didn't do was connect the power injector because that seemed to be where there issue was. I checked my TVs plugged into the main cable outlets in the house and found that I got all the stations from the towers 2 miles away but nothing more. I am attributing this to signal loss from the antenna run to the 5 way splitter to the run to the TVs in the house. I expected this. This is why I need a preamp.

So it seems that the issue either lies with the power injector, preamp or both.

Any opinions on other suggestions or is there agreement that I have found the issue at hand?

It stinks cause the preamp was brand new!

Thanks again and look forward to any further advice anyone has.

Also, attached is a pic of my splitter setup in the basement. This is how Time Warner did it. The line in the middle of the upper splitter is the main feed from the antenna. Disregard the grey preamp at the top, that's for my internet.

Thanks!

Forget the preamp. You are far too close to several towers and almost any pre-amp, but especially the one you have, will overload causing a "no reception" situation. You don't need one in any event.

My issue is that without the preamp I only get like 7 channels after my feed goes through the antenna line, into the splitter and then out into my individual TV's.

I should be getting at least 26 stations. I would get 26+ stations with a cheap indoor/outdoor with a built in preamp mounted in the attic.

My neighbor, 2 doors down has a cheap preamp-ed indoor antenna that gets stations 51 miles to the west and some 67 miles to the east also. Of course I doubt his is directional.

Whether it makes sense or not, testing both with a pre-amped antenna and without, I get much better reception and more stations with a preamp installed.

In this particular circumstance it seems like my preamp and or power injector is bad.

Yes, I agree completely.

Signals with a noise margin (NM) in the air of 30 dB and greater should be able to drive a passive 8-way splitter with no amplification and still leave power to drive long coax runs. The signal from WFXV is far more powerful, enough to easily overload most preamplifiers.

You started your trouble shooting well. You've proven you have a usable signal at the antenna and at the end of a moderate length of coax. What you have not proven is the integrity of the coax from the roof to the basement.

I strongly agree with the suggestion of removing both the preamp and power injector. Then, connect a TV to the coax in the basement. You should have no trouble getting enough signal power there. If you don't get reliable reception on a single set in the basement, it suggests you have a bad coax or connector (or both).

I won't dispute that you see a change in the symptoms when you add the amp into the mix... I'm suggesting that there is an underlying problem that needs to be found and fixed... once you do that, the amplifier will not be needed or even helpful.

I see 2 splitters. Remove them.

The input of one of the splitters has what looks like some type of double coupler. Remove it.

Remove ->ALL<-of the cable Tv hardware that is connected with the antenna system.

Remove ->All<- of the preamp , remove the preamp , remove the power injector , remove the power supply.

For 1 Tv connected use No splitter.

For 2 Tv's connected use a simple common 2 way splitter.

For 3 Tv's connected use a simple common 3 way splitter.

For 4 Tv's connected use a simple common 4 way splitter.

For 5 Tv's connected use a simple common 6 way splitter.
Leviton 47690-6 , 6 way splitter.

__________

Know this--> each time a splitter split takes place the signal strength Is Reduced.

Terminate unused splitter output ports with 75 ohm terminators. The 75 ohm terminators keep the system balanced and prevent ingrees and egress.

___________________________________________________

If you have cable internet service or any other type or kind of cable tv delivered service , the cable delivered service ->Must Not<- be connected to the antenna system in any shape way or form.

Zip , Zero , Zilch.

_____________________________________________________________

Antenna system amplifiers , preamplifiers / distribution amplifiers Are Not the Cure All for antenna system problems.

Amplifiers Are Not the alpha/omega.

Amplifiers Will Not fix bad coax.

Amplifiers Will Not fix bad connections.

Amplifiers Will Not fix multipath/reflections.

Amplifiers Will Not fix all reception issues.

Know this --> Automatic reaching for and installing a amplifier is automatic reaching for trouble.

Rereading your posts , I see that you said that at one point that you disconnected the Power Injector but left the preamp unit at the antenna connected.

With out power and with out the power injector connected , the preamp will not function.

If the actual preamp unit is not functioning because it has no power for the electronic circuit of the preamp that is out by the antenna , Then the preamp will not pass much if any signal.

With out power the Actual Preamp Unit that is out by the antenna becomes a -->Attenuator<-- and actually stops signals from getting through.

Thanks for all the suggestions as I am still trying to troubleshoot the issue.

I did hook a TV directly to the line going into the basement with no preamp attached. I got most of the stations very well, but not everything I know I could and should get. As soon as I hooked the preamp and plugged in the injector through the same connection I got nothing at all.

I then tried to run the same TV in the basement through the open splitter connector and again my signal automatically dropped to just the stations off the local tower which is about 7 stations. With the preamp connected and injector plugged in (before the signal is split) still takes away the signal for all stations.

The confusing part to me is that I used this same basic setup before with a cheap indoor antenna w/ a built in preamp mounted in the attic and injector in the same location. With that I got like 26+ stations on 3 different TV's in my house at once. This was all coming off of the same splitter and coaxial that I am currently using.

Really I am trying to figure out if this preamp is a defective unit. If that's the case, I can at least start by returning it. Should I really be losing ALL signals when the injector is plugged in even with running it through the splitter?

I am now confident that my coaxials and connectors are all functioning properly.

Again I'm not arguing with any of the advice put out there. I'm merely stating what I have seen actually happen with regards to my reception and the use of a different preamp.

As of right now I'm only pulling a signal from local towers when the signal is run through the splitter. I'm pulling a better signal but not the best I've seen when I run it direct to a TV. Through the preamp with power injector plugged in, ALL signals fail no matter what the setup.

I understand that I am close to several towers and I agree that I do not need a preamp for these towers. But this only gets me like 7 stations. I should be getting all of the stations 50mi + to the west. I cant seem to get these through a splitter at this time.

Again, this exact same setup originally worked great with a cheap indoor antenna w/ a built in preamp in my attic. I can't understand why it is not working with an upgraded antenna and amp on my roof.

My internet setup is completely separate from my antenna setup.

As for the splitters, I'd rather not buy brand new ones, but will as a last resort. Especially because I've seen them previously working as they are.

Again I thank everyone for taking the time to read these long posts and for all your help and advice. I will continue to try different options to troubleshoot.

I would like to know is there any way to actually test this preamp to be certain whether it is working properly or not?

Thanks Again.

If you don't see everything you know you should, stop... figure out why, fix it, then move on to testing more of the system. Any trouble shooting done after this point is futile and confusing unless you resolve the problems already present. Did you fine tune the location and aim of the antenna? How many pieces of cable were between the antenna and TV? How many feet of cable was between the antenna and TV? Now would be a good time to try a new coax, directly from the antenna to the test TV. It would also help us a great deal to know what signal you thought you should get, but did not. Did you do a new scan for channels? Call sign and real channel number is the ideal way to identify the signal.

Yes, take the antenna, preamp and TV to a location with weak signals and try it there. The signal power shown on your TVFR strongly argues against the use of any preamp, especially one prone to overloading. The signals in the air at your location are too powerful to test that type preamp with.

BUT....
It does not matter whether it's defective or overloading... it's not needed or even useful. It's adding to your problems. Get your money back, get rid of it. It's stopping you from focusing on obtaining a clean signal from the antenna at the end of a reasonable length of coax.

With the preamp and power injector totally removed from the system, it sounds like there are still two or more pieces of coax between the antenna and the basement distribution point where you split. Is that because there are splices or because there are additional splitters or other accessories? I'm not as convinced as you are that the cables and connectors are free of trouble. Every connection is a point that can go open due to corrosion, wear due to repeated assembly/disassembly, water intrusion, etc.

- When I say I don't see everything that I should I mean I don't have all the channels that I had when I used the cheap indoor antenna with the built in preamp in the attic and the injector located just before my splitter. I still get like 22 channels when going direct from the antenna to a TV in the basement. Though some of them are duplicates.

- The antenna is aimed at 277 degrees.

- Between antenna and TV in the basement there is one solid length of cable connected directly into the antenna and the TV. It is approximately 50 ft of cable

- I already ran a new coaxial directly from the antenna to a test tv. I just dropped a line off my roof and through a window. I got the exact same results.

- I did a new scan. I was getting 5 or 6 more channels. I will try to get exact call sign information for you.

Lets just assume that I ditch the preamp. How do I solve my problem with the issues with the signal dropping to the approximate 7 channels from the local towers after the signal is split?

Right now I have a http://www.monoprice.com/products/pr...seq=1&format=2
antenna hooked up inside my living room directly to my main TV with the power injector connected and I am getting more channels than I did with my roof antenna directly connected by a single coax to a single TV in my basement. I don't understand that at all.

Without the preamp, there is only one length of quad shield rg6 running from the antenna, into my attic, to the basement and into the splitter.
Thanks again for your patience and help.

Connect a NEW as in --> NEW loooong coax to the matching transformer that is connected to the antenna.

Run the NEW loooong coax -->directly<-- through a open door or window and connect 1 Tv.

NO amplifier , NO power injector , NO power supply , NO couplers , NO splitters , NO nothing.

It is the , Antenna , the matching transformer , the coax , the Tv.

Scan for Digital Broadcast Tv channels , Not cable channels.

Reception Now??

If not then install a NEW matching transformer.
And Yes I know you installed a new matching transformer , install a NEW one anyway.

Reception Now??

Please don't presume that the preamplifier in the Monoprice antenna is helping you. The signal levels shown on your TVFR indicate you should be seeing many stations with an unamplified antenna. Your 'tests' continue to make me question the integrity of the ANT-751, and/or the matching transformer.


Good call.

It's not hard to over-tighten the connector on some of the matching transformers currently available. If the connector twists, the internal connections in the transformer can break. If that happens, you can be left with the equivalent of a short paper clip for an antenna. In the presence of strong signals, that may be enough 'antenna' to do a mediocre job.

On a separate note, in the photo of your splitters, do I see an attenuator between the coax and input to the 4-way splitter?

I did that already with a NEW cable. I did a broadcast scan. I do get reception, but about 6 channels less than I do with the indoor monoprice amp connected directly to the TV.

I am going to buy another matching transformer to see if it works any better.

Thanks Again for your continued help.

If you mean the red thing in the middle, yeah I guess that is a attenuator. I have since removed that and nothing has changed with my signal through the splitter.

As I said in my previous post, I will try a new transformer and not over tighten.

Should I still be getting stations over 50 mi away with no preamp?

GroundUrMast, I really appreciate your continued help and for not making me feel like an idiot through this process. I do try to do my homework with this stuff. Mostly for me its all self taught thought I am getting beyond my level of knowledge with this particular issue. So sincerely, thank you for your help and patience.

What stations are you missing?



Thanks, please let me know if I or any other member makes you feel anything other than welcome.

I will get exact call signs for you tomorrow. Thank You.

That depends on the signal levels in the air, at your antenna's location. Can you give us the call sign and real channel number of the station(s) you're referring to? Based on the path profiles shown in your TVFR, you are on the side of a hill with line of sight toward Syracuse, you should have no trouble with signal levels at that distance. Any signal on your report with a NM value of 40 dB or greater is powerful enough to drive 100' of RG-6 (6 dB loss), an 8-way splitter (12 dB loss) and another 100' of RG-6... (40 dB NM - 24 dB distribution losses still leaves you a net NM at the TV of 16 dB.) And that assumes no antenna gain. http://forum.tvfool.com/showthread.php?t=109

Ynot713:

Your equipment is acting in a way that is normal and to be expected.

Your problem is overload. If you look at your tvfool report you will see that the signal power for WFXV is -10.4 dBm. It is highlighted in red to indicate the possibility of overload in a preamp or tuner. I quote from tvfool Signal Analysis FAQ:
THREE TYPES OF OVERLOAD

There are three types of preamp or tuner overload, in order of increasing signal strength:

1. The strong signals almost cause enough IM distortion to interfere with the reception of weak desired signals, but the spurious signals are at or below the noise floor. This is the point that holl_ands uses in his preamp charts to obtain max SFDR (Spurious Free Dynamic Range). No damage will happen. A preamp chart by him is here:
http://imageevent.com/holl_ands/files/ota

Click on Modified solidsignal Chart Comparing Preamps - RevA

His chart shows the max input for various preamps that will give best SFDR. Most tuners will tolerate a -10.4 dBm signal, but if you look at the chart you will see that it is too strong for ANY of the preamps listed.

As the strongest signals continue to increase in strength, more of the weaker signals are damaged until you reach:

2. The strong signals cause overload to the preamp or tuner that makes it impossible to receive any signals. No damage will happen.

3. The signals are so strong that the input transistor is toast. You are not likely to encounter OTA signals that strong.

TUNER SPECIFICATIONS

If you look at the tuner specifications you will see that there are limits to what they can handle in the way of signal stength:

ATSC Recommended Practice:
Receiver Performance Guidelines
Document A/74:2010, 7 April 2010
http://www.atsc.org/cms/standards/a_74-2010.pdf

scroll down to page 12:
RECEIVER PERFORMANCE GUIDELINES

5.1 Sensitivity
A DTV receiver should achieve a bit error rate in the transport stream of no worse than 3x10-6 for input RF signal levels directly to the tuner from –83 dBm to –5 dBm for both the VHF and UHF bands.

5.2 Multi-Signal Overload
The DTV receiver should accommodate more than one undesired, high-level, NSTC or DTV signal at its input, received from transmission facilities that are in close proximity to one another. For purposes of this guideline, it should be assumed that multiple signals, each approaching –8 dBm, will exist at the input of the receiver.

As you can see, WFXV is about right at the overload point without preamp gain, taking into consideration the antenna gain is added and the coax loss is subtracted from that -10.4 dBm figure.

WHY YOU GOT THE RESULTS YOU DID

So, your question is why did the antenna and preamp inside the attic give you the channels that you wanted, but the antenna and preamp outside didn't?

The answer is that when the antenna and preamp were in the attic, there was sufficient attenuation of the signal by the attic construction to prevent overload of the preamp or tuner. But when the antenna and preamp were outside, you didn't receive any signals at all because of the type 2 overload mentioned above.

TVPRAMP1R SPECIFICATIONS

These are the specs for the TVPRAMP1R. As you can see, when you add the preamp gain to the -10.4 dBm figure, overload is certain.

Designed specifically to improve the performance of outdoor antennas in low signal strength areas
Gain: VHF: 16 dB; UHF: 22 dB
Separate or combined inputs for UHF/VHF
Switchable FM trap reduces interference from FM frequencies
Separate amplification for UHF & VHF bands to improve performance
You can use the 1296F as a variable attenuator to control the dB Gain

WHAT HAPPENED IN THE BASEMENT AND ATTIC

When you ran the coax directly from the outside antenna down to the basement TV there was sufficient signal strength to receive the local signals, but you were missing amplification to receive the weaker signals.

The attic setup (and in your living room with Monoprice antenna and its 20 dB amp) were able to achieve that happy compromise of not enough signal to cause overload, but enough preamp gain to receive the weaker signals. This is what holl_ands is talking about in type 1. overload mentioned above for maximum SFDR. The dynamic range that you need to accomodate is -10.4 dBm for WFXV to -50.9 dBm for WCBT, which is 40.5 dB. If you want even weaker signals, the dynamic range will be even greater.

WHAT YOU CAN DO

In order to duplicate the results of the previous attic antenna you can try the 751 and preamp up there. If the 751 is outside, then you will need to run your coax directly down to the basement and put a preamp there wth an attenuator just before it to simulate the attic loss. The attenuator should be adjusted to make the strongest signals just weak enough to prevent overload. If your TV has a signal strength meter, it would help with the adjustments.
attenuator

Because you are in a strong signal location the coax for the outside antenna should be grounded with a grounding block to prevent direct pickup by the TV and so the quad shield isn't wasted. The grounding block and the mast should be connected to the house electrical system ground with no. 10 copper wires to comply with NEC requirements.

Once you have achieved that, then your distribution system should be designed to maintain that balance by making the signal stronger for the longer coax runs and weaker for the short coax runs. You can do that with a cascade arrangement of 2-way splitters.

A MORE ACCURATE TVFOOL REPORT WOULD BE HELPFUL

Because you are so close to the local transmitters, it would be useful if we could see a more exact tvfool report for your location.
If you use the interactive map feature you can move the marker to your exact location (left click on marker and hold down, move x to spot and release) and then produce a report by clicking at the upper right of the map. It's fun to watch the coordinates change as you move the marker. Don't forget to enter the antenna height below the map.
http://www.tvfool.com/?option=com_wrapper&Itemid=90

Pete Higgins is using a drop amp (like CM3410) instead of a preamp. He lives in a strong signal area and claims that it is more resistant to overload.

Signal Amplifiers (Amps, Preamps, Distro Amps)page 221
http://www.digitalhome.ca/forum/show...42426&page=221
posts 3304, 3313

page 222
http://www.digitalhome.ca/forum/show...42426&page=222
posts 3321, 3327, 3330

page 223
http://www.digitalhome.ca/forum/show...42426&page=223
posts 3332, 3334, 3336, 3338

I took another look at Pete Higgins posts to find out how strong his local signals are; his tvfool report looks like this:
http://www.tvfool.com/?option=com_wr...1dda169109ca5c

His strongest signal is KVCR at -15.6 dBm, which is not quite as strong as your -10.4 dBm signal, but it was giving him trouble with overloaded preamps that he needed for his weaker signals, much like your problem.

ADTech posted some spectrum analyzer images that compare two CM amps and one AD preamp that seem to confirm that a drop amp can handle stronger signals than a preamp:
http://www.digitalhome.ca/forum/show...postcount=3285

Yes drop amps and distribution amps are more resistant to overload then a preamp.

That is true.

And is a interesting point.

However.

The ANT751 antenna is to small for the job of receiving the Very Weak Tv transmissions at the bottom of the 'receivable' tv stations list.

The way to Avoid Any Type or Kind of Amplifier Overload is Not Use a amplifier of any type or kind.

To do that , use a Bigger antenna , As In , Bigger Antenna.

Not somewhat bigger , but , --> Bigger as in Bigger.

A Bigger Antenna Will Receive More Signal , receiving more signal , means Stronger Signal Strength in the antenna system.

Stronger Signal Strength delivered from the antenna , Can mean no amplifier required.

If No Amplifier is used then the amplifier will not be overloaded because there is no amplifier.

Absolutely!! The Channel Master drop amps are much more tolerant of strong signals than the benchmark Winegard HDP-269 preamp. It would certainly be worth a try for the OP to retain the desired weaker signals if the passive splitter scenario doesn't pan out.

Thank You everyone for your assistance. Rabbit73, thanks for explaining everything like that. I finally feel like I have a grasp as to what is going on. I'm trying to understand some of the charts that were linked but am finding myself in a state of confusion with all the numbers as it is way above my level of expertise.

I guess my next two steps are to try the amp in the basement w/ the passive splitter and if that dosent work, try the CM-3418 DISTRIBUTION AMPLIFIER - 8 PORT with no preamp.

I have the antenna run w/ no preamp right now and am getting decent signal, but still running into issues with those weaker signals that I really want to get. Besides that, my local news station (WKTV) which is not in the direction of my antenna but 11mi or so away at 120 deg, is not coming in at all.

I know bigger, bigger antenna. That will be my last resort. I bought this antenna because it was discrete, clearly I should have sought all of your insight prior to going through all the work of mounting it.

Thank you all and, I'f you'd like I'll continue to update you on my status as I try different options.

One other question, and I'm sure this is a completely dumb amateur question, but what if I turned my antenna around to face the Albany towers, with the preamp? Like 135 degreeish? Would that lower the signal enough to use the preamp and possibly receive towers from Albany and Syracuse? Like I said, amateur question but I was just curious. Please try not to start your response to this with, "Yes that was a completely dumb amateur question." :)

Thanks Again.

"Yes that was a completely dumb amateur question.".... NOT! :D

You've articulated an effective method of balancing signal levels in select situations. By turning the Antenna 180° from a signal source it will still receive, but at a lower level. That can help in some situations such as when you have powerful signals opposite weak signals.

Thanks for making me feel like I somewhat know what I'm talking about lol. Now the question is....Do you think that could work given my particular situation?

The ANT-751 is rather small when chasing after the Albany signals. But you have it, so if you're comfortable working on your roof, it's a very simple experiment to turn the antenna to point the other way.

If you can keep the test simple by connecting only the antenna and a single TV, you'll eliminate questions re. the integrity of components that could be causing some of the other problems you've been troubleshooting. Again, be sure to rescan the TV when you make a change to the system (new antenna, aim-point, add or remove a component, etc.).

It worked! Antenna at 135 deg with RCA Preamp at antenna and I get Albany's Fox, CBS and NBC among others. No overload and I still get all of the Syracuse stations I got before and all of my local stations!

I am actually getting 28 stations now which is more that I got before.

Thank you to everyone for all your help! I really appreciate it. I can only imagine what I could get with a bigger antenna. I love living on top of a hill.

As the weather gets warmer, now I have to start thinking about grounding this thing.

Thanks for letting us know how the 'test' turned out. That's very good to hear.

This tends to confirm the theory that you're in a narrow window of strong versus weak signal reception and that just a minor change in any one of the major components would tip the scale one way or the other.

I still have very little affection for the RCA preamp in this application, but if this current arrangement works, great (don't fix it if it aint broke).

Grounding is a good idea, and it rarely needs to be a big expensive project.