Getting network channels

[goosemasterkl]

http://www.tvfool.com/?option=com_wrapper&Itemid=29&q=id%3da362aa8a0b9896 Here is my info link and I was needing some help. I have a HD Stacker antenna and a Winegard AP 8700 preamplifier. How can I pick-up channels 45 & 46 which are NBC and CBS. I get ABC and Fox Network now but can't receive the other 2 networks. I don't understand why; the ABC channel is just 2 and 4 degrees from the 2 I'm trying to pick-up. Can someone tell me what I need to do? Thanks

[Billiam]

My guess is the preamp is not needed if you only want the stations in green and yellow. I would try removing the preamp and see what happens.

[Dave Loudin]

Same advice here as in the other forum! The two closest stations are swamping your preamp.

[goosemasterkl]

I tried hooking a F- coupling up at the preamp on the mast pole to by-pass the preamp but I couldn't pick anything up like that. I may have done something wrong; that's why I'm asking for knowledgeable advice. Should I just hook it up as if there was no preamp installed? Thanks

[Billiam]

Remove the preamp completely out of the system. Run the coax straight from the antenna to the TV and see what happens.

[goosemasterkl]

I tried un-hooking the preamp and now I can't pick-up anything. Let me know what you think the problem is. Thanks

[Billiam]

I tried un-hooking the preamp and now I can't pick-up anything. Let me know what you think the problem is. Thanks

Did you remove the cable from the preamp at the mast and also at the tv? If you keep one end of it plugged into the part with the AC outlet, it won't work properly either with or without the preamp. You have to completely bypass all the preamp components.

[goosemasterkl]

I completely unhooked the preamp from both ends. Thanks

[Billiam]

The next step is to examine how and where the antenna is installed.

In the attic? Outside? How is it mounted and what kind of hardware are you using?

Are there any large trees, buildings or hills in the direction where these signals originate?

[goosemasterkl]

I hooked the preamp back up and here is what I'm getting:
Antenna is 19' high on a pole outside; I have a big limb approximately 12' over the top of the antenna and one tree out in front of it. Antenna is pointing due North.
RF-28 Channel 7-1 Meter signal 70-75
" - 9 " " 9-1 " " " " 30-35
" - 9 " " 9-2 " " " " 30-35
" - 9 " " 9-3 " " " " 30-35
" - 20 " " 19-1 " " " " 80-85
" - 7 " " 25-1 " " " " 70-75
" - 7 " " 25-2 " " " " 75-80

Maybe these numbers will tell you something that I can't figure out.
Thanks;

[Billiam]

I've had similar issues like this at my present location. Changing antennas solved the problem.

Probably an issue with multipath just like here. The Stacker is a good antenna and should be able to do the job there. In my case I had trouble getting all my stations with the CM 4228 and U8000 both of which are 8 bay screens. When I switched to a Yagi style MXU59 and 91XG then I was able to get every local station with a strong signal.

My guess is that those trees are the problem. You may have to try moving the antenna to another spot or perhaps put another antenna in front of the tree to get the stations you want. I tried that here with a CM 4221HD and that too worked well.

[Tower Guy]

something that I can't figure out.
Thanks;

You have two extra strong FM stations, WSOF on 89.9 and WKMD on 90.9. The stacker antenna receives FM very well. The tunable FM trap in the AP 8700 can be adjusted to eliminate one of them, but not both. You can try to tune out the strongest one, but I suspect that you'd be better off with an HLSJ used as a low band trap. Install it between the antenna and the preamp with nothing (or a 75 ohm termination) connected to the L input.

You may also have to drop down to a HDP-269 preamp.

[goosemasterkl]

I'm not going to use fm; can I turn that plug on the fm trap to where it's not receiving fm stations? Thanks

[Tower Guy]

I'm not going to use fm; can I turn that plug on the fm trap to where it's not receiving fm stations? Thanks

The preamp that you have is equipped with 2 FM filters. One is most effective above 95 MHz, the other is tunable to eliminate a single station low in the band. With two stations low in the band you can pick which one to trap out, but that leaves one strong FM station to overload the preamp. You could add a second tunable trap, the FT-7600, tuned to the second FM station, use a HLSJ to eliminate all FM, or replace the stacker with an antenna system designed for channels 7-69.

To tune the trap in the AP-8700, connect an antenna indoors (Could be the stacker, or a simple FM dipole.) to the AP-8700 when it is located in a place where you can look at the signal strength of an FM station using the signal strength meter on your FM tuner. Adjust the screwdriver slot for minimum signal. After that you can place the preamp at the stacker antenna.

[goosemasterkl]

I ordered a HLSJ to put on my system; in what order does it install at? before this; after that, etc. Also; what antenna do you reccommend? Thanks

[Tower Guy]

I ordered a HLSJ to put on my system; in what order does it install at? before this; after that, etc. Also; what antenna do you reccommend? Thanks

The L input of the HLSJ is connected to nothing or a 75 ohm termination.
The H input of the HLSJ is connected to the stacker antenna that you have. The output of the HLSJ is connected to the input of your AP-8700 preamp.

With an HLSJ there should be no need to change antennas. I mentioned other choices so that anyone in a similar situation as yours would get an antenna that doesn't pick up FM.

To eliminate overload from your strongest UHF TV station you may still need to replace the AP-8700 with a HDP-269.

[goosemasterkl]

Thanks guys for all the info; I'll let you know if the HLSJ works when it comes in. Thanks

[goosemasterkl]

Tower Guy; Billiam, I put the HLSJ on my antenna and there was no difference. What do you suggest now? Thanks for the info

[Tigerbangs]

I'm convinced that you are swamping that preamp with signal: the CW and PBS stations are just too strong in your location. I would start with a better UHF antenna, one that is more directional, like an AntennasDirect XG-91, and replace the AP-8700 with a Winegard HDP-269. Aim the antenna directly at channel at the ABC and FOX transmitters: the others should fall back into place.The additional directionality of the XG-91, plus it's additional gain, should solve your situation.

[goosemasterkl]

Tigerbangs; Thanks so much for your response; Maybe that will give me another avenue on fixing my problem. I'm just dumbfounded about this whole thing. It maybe makes sense to people like yourself with knowledge of these antenna's; but I don't understand how the 2 network stations I'm trying to pick-up (channels 45 & 46 NBC and CBS) they are 2 degrees and 4 degrees apart from channels I'm already picking up the ABC and Fox network all coming out of Evansville, In. Just don't make sense to me; but alot of things don't make sense to me. Well; again thanks for your reply.

[Billiam]

TV signals are very quirky. Example:

Here at my home when I first installed a Channel Bastard 4228 8 bay I only received about half of the signals in KC which are in the yellow zone. Then when I switched to a Antennacraft U8000 8 bay I received identical performance on the same channels while the others were not there. Even after adding a pre amp not much difference.

But... I switched over to a Antennacraft MXU59 Yagi style antenna and suddenly every single channel in yellow came in. Adding a pre amp gave me a strong signal on every channel! And then two of my red zone signals also started to come in after pointing the antenna towards Columbia.

Now I am using a 91XG and currently testing two properly phased and coupled Channel Bastard 4221 HD antennas on the roof. This configuration at a few feet lower than the 91XG is actually giving me a antenna with more rejection of side and backside signals as well as slightly more gain than the 91XG.

My guess is that the 91XG or a cheaper Yagi like the MXU59 should do the trick for you.

[goosemasterkl]

Billiam; what could I do to be able to keep my ABC channel on HI-VHF? Thanks

[Billiam]

Billiam; what could I do to be able to keep my ABC channel on HI-VHF? Thanks

Tough question.

Can you add any more height to your antenna setup? Try rerunning TV Fool at your location with 25 and 30 foot heights to see if you'd see that Noise Margin (NM) which is currently at minus 0.9 can go into positive territory.

If it does, then adding a VHF antenna might do the trick. Perhaps stacking two Winegard YA 1713's would work. Not sure if one will work on such a weak signal even with a pre amp.

[Billiam]

Another thought. After rereading your TV Fool report I had another idea.

It seems as though the weakest signals you wish to watch are on VHF. I've found the Winegard HD 7084 antenna has about the highest gain for VHF in all band antenna. Perhaps only the Channel Bastard 3671 has more gain but that is a monster in size. The 7084HD would cover your Ch. 5 in the lo VHF band and high band stuff as well. You could then use something like a Winegard AP 4800 VHF only pre amp and bypass a pre amp on UHF which this antenna should not need for the signals in green and yellow on the UHF band.

[No static at all]

Given that you need a preamp to make the HD stacker work well tells me that it isn't enough antenna for your situation. The proper antenna(s) should be receiving the desired stations with no amplification to 1 TV (with 100 feet or less of coax cable).

On the cheap, I would first try the preamp suggested by Tigerbangs since the 8700 is likely being overwhelmed by the strong locals. Try a couple tweaks with height if you still have reliability issues. (Both higher & lower 6-12 inches)

If that doesn't provide satisfactory results, replace the stacker with the proven Winegard YA-1713 / 91XG combo. (Combine the 2 antennas with a UVSJ) You likely won't even need a preamp, but will still be able to use the HDP-269 if one is truly needed. You may still need the HLSJ with either scenario to help with VHF reliability.

[Billiam]

Given that you need a preamp to make the HD stacker work well tells me that it isn't enough antenna for your situation. The proper antenna(s) should be receiving the desired stations with no amplification to 1 TV (with 100 feet or less of coax cable).

On the cheap, I would first try the preamp suggested by Tigerbangs since the 8700 is likely being overwhelmed by the strong locals. Try a couple tweaks with height if you still have reliability issues. (Both higher & lower 6-12 inches)

If that doesn't provide satisfactory results, replace the stacker with the proven Winegard YA-1713 / 91XG combo. (Combine the 2 antennas with a UVSJ) You likely won't even need a preamp, but will still be able to use the HDP-269 if one is truly needed. You may still need the HLSJ with either scenario to help with VHF reliability.

Not sure that YA 1713 will work on such a weak signal. I have a Ch. 7 at 55 miles with a NM at 1.9 and a 2 edge signal and it only comes with my YA 1713 if I find a sweet spot on the mast and with a pre amp like the Titan 7777. Even then it breaks up a bit and the average signal is around 15 db which is not quite strong enough to lock consistently on my TV. I've found 15.5 or higher will lock the signal.

I purchased a HD 7084 because it has higher gain across the board on VHF hi signals. In fact it is a full 1.5 db higher gain on Ch. 7 than the YA 1713. I have not put it up yet but if it works better than the YA 1713 I'll let people know.

[No static at all]

Not sure that YA 1713 will work on such a weak signal. I have a Ch. 7 at 55 miles with a NM at 1.9 and a 2 edge signalThanks Billiam,

I experienced decent reliablity on a weak channel 12 (http://www.tvfool.com/?option=com_wrapper&Itemid=29&q=id%3d9fbe13047389ee%26t%3dALLTV%26n%3d33) with a much lower NM than the OP's, so I would think the 1713 should do the trick.

I do agree that the 7084 would probably work somewhat better on VHF for you though. I've used the 7082 & find it's VHF gain to be quite good. (A little disappointing on UHF though)

[Billiam]

Thanks Billiam,

I experienced decent reliablity on a weak channel 12 (http://www.tvfool.com/?option=com_wrapper&Itemid=29&q=id%3d9fbe13047389ee%26t%3dALLTV%26n%3d33) with a much lower NM than the OP's, so I would think the 1713 should do the trick.

I do agree that the 7084 would probably work somewhat better on VHF for you though. I've used the 7082 & find it's VHF gain to be quite good. (A little disappointing on UHF though)

I do have some trees in the vicinity and I think they may be the cause of some of my problems with the YA 1713 on Ch. 7.

[goosemasterkl]

http://www.tvfool.com/?option=com_wr...a362aa8a0b9896 Hey Guy's; I replaced the AP 8700 preamp with the HDP-269 preamp; my signal strength is approximately half of what it was on all channels. I haven't had time to do any tweaking of the Stacker antenna yet. What do anyone suggest for me to do now? Get the MXU59 or the 91 XG antenna? I'm getting a LITTLE frustrated at this thing. Please HELP!!!!!!!!!

[Billiam]

I'd try the MXU59 first because it costs less than the 91XG. Both should give you every UHF channel from WAZE to WTVW.

I'd then try the YA-1713 in place of the Stacker for the VHF channels. If this configuration does not work then it seems to me there may be some kind of environmental problem in the vicinity that is impacting your signals.

Amp wise I'd go back to the one you were using originally because it gave you better performance. See if you can return the HDP-269 for a refund. Clearly you need the additional gain that the 8700 offers.

[Tigerbangs]

I'd try the MXU59 first because it costs less than the 91XG. Both should give you every UHF channel from WAZE to WTVW.

I'd then try the YA-1713 in place of the Stacker for the VHF channels. If this configuration does not work then it seems to me there may be some kind of environmental problem in the vicinity that is impacting your signals.

Amp wise I'd go back to the one you were using originally because it gave you better performance. See if you can return the HDP-269 for a refund. Clearly you need the additional gain that the 8700 offers.


Sorry, but that is completely wrong advice: If the preamp is properly installed, it should NOT adversely affect affect your signal strengths or TV reception: Digital signals need very little gain to be viable: more gain is NOT the answer. A preamplifier is only necessary to cover line and splitting losses in an antenna system: more than that is not only superfluous, but can cause other reception problems like overload.

I suspect that your issue comes from your ANTENNA, and not your preamp. The advice about it MX-59 is also wrong: it is NOT as good an antenna as the XG-91, and is almost as expensive. Solid Signal sells the XG-91 for $53.00. it sells the MX-59 for $46.00.

DUMP the Stacker and use a combination of an Winegard YA-1713 and an AntennasDirect XG-91, combine the signals using a Pico-Macom UVSJ, then go into the HDP-269.
Aim the antennas as you were directed, and your problem will be solved...

[Billiam]

^^^While I agree that the antenna is the problem, I do know that at my location the MXU59 is giving me the same kind of results with my signals as the 91XG.

I'd say the OP should try them both and decide for himself. He should then make sure he can return the antenna he decides not to keep.

[Tigerbangs]

Now there is a waste of time, money and energy to no good end.