Help with reception of both Toronto and Buffalo stations

[Dave]

Here's my report:

http://www.tvfool.com/?option=com_wrapper&Itemid=29&q=id%3d9fbefb23fe7581

I'm located in Ontario, Canada right on the border. I'm using this antenna which I'm not happy with:

https://www.nationalantennas.com/store/products/HD%252d360-Omnidirectional-Long-Range-UHF-VHF-HDTV-Outdoor-Amplified-Antenna-Package.html

I've contacted National Antennas about the antenna as it's giving me FEWER channels when I plug in the amp, and that doesn't sound right.

I can get NBC, CBS, ABC, CW, Fox and MyTV (as well as some religious ones I don't need). My goal is to get as much as possible from Toronto and Buffalo. As you can see, I'm kind of in the middle of these areas. Wondering what antenna you'd recommend for me to mount on my ~38-foot tower. Would the 8-bay Channelmaster, if pointed at Toronto, give me any reception from it's rear that would get me Buffalo's strong signals.

Help please! Thanks in advance.

[ADTech]

You are getting fewer channels with the amp plugged in because it is likely overloading (distorting) from your very strong local transmissions. Any amplifier used in your location, if one is even needed, would need to very resistant to overloading or inter-modulation distortion.

An omni-directional antenna rarely works well with digital signals. Typically, reception in difficult locations will be adversely affected due to the omni's lack of directionality (inability to resist multi-path signals).

As far as Toronto is concerned, you will need to make a choice as to whether to select an antenna for post-transition digital only (which must include high-VHF(CFTO) in addition to UHF) or if you want to include current analog reception which includes low-VHF.

[Dave]

Thanks for the quick reply and detailed explanation. Makes perfect sense. I've decided to use the system without the amp for now as the signals I do receive from Buffalo are strong.

I would like to give a shot at replacing this antenna with a directional antenna before I settle. I'm interested in digital signals, so will say I can do without the low-VHF. Can you recommend a directional antenna I could try and what direction would be best to point it in?

[Dave Loudin]

Couple of thoughts:
1) Your report was at the zip code level. We often recommend using the "start MAPS" option to be sure that the receive marker is right over your location in order to get the best picture of terrain effects. However, in your case, you are probably OK.

2) With that kind of report, you should be able to use an indoor antenna, like the Terk HDTVi.

3) Check out this (http://www.digitalhome.ca/forum/forumdisplay.php?f=129) forum. There will be a reception results thread for your area.

4) You need very little gain, really. The RCA 751, aimed southeast, should work OK. Do check out the other thread first, though.

Good luck!

[Dave]

Thanks for the link! Seems to be someone in my same town working on a similar setup so I'll see if he can share his setup. You say pointing Southeast, but that would make me out of luck for the Toronto channels, right?

[Dave Loudin]

Whoops! You're right. I overlooked the Toronto azimuth. You should double-check your report via the maps option to be sure you have the right terrain effects accounted for. Those stations are lurking at just-positive noise margins, so you will need real antenna gain in that direction. What you may be able to do is use a directive antenna like a Winegard 7696 or an Antennacraft HBU-33 or -44 and catch the US stations with side/back lobes.

[Dave]

Any point trying a 4228? Seems to be a popular choice and reading reports that it has decent reception from sidelobes.

[Dave Loudin]

Not if you want CFTO. As ADTech said, that station will be on high-VHF post-transition - and you will need an antenna with plenty of gain, not just a little, in that band.

[Billiam]

If he wants to go with a separate VHF antenna then the Winegard YA1713 would probably work for CFTO.

[Dave]

Oops. Forgot about the CFTO deal! As for a separate VHF antenna I'm being lazy and looking to keep things simple with a one-antenna no-rotor setup. Gonna go read up on the Winegard and Antennacraft ones you've suggested. Of those, which would you suggest? Also, I don't understand if the side/back lobes are optional or not and how many miles of coverage they'll get me. More reading to do and probably some testing.

[Dave Loudin]

Heh. Side and back lobes are not optional, that's part of the physics behind antennas. All I was trying to imply was that even the more directive antennas I recommended will pick up signals from the back and off to the sides somewhat.

Many, but not all manufacturers provide graphs depicting the "antenna pattern" at several channels. Looking at one of those, you will see a main "lobe" where the peak gains are and several smaller lobes around the rest of the circle. The gain in those smaller lobes is much less than in the main direction. Since you have such strong signals in other directions, the sensitivity, as depicted by those other lobes, will be enough to pull in reliable reception.

[Dave]

Got it, thanks. What confused me is the HBU-44 and -55 have extra rocket-looking pieces that point to the sides. Thought maybe those had to be purchased separate. I'm gonna try to track down the -33 and give it a shot. I'll report back on how it goes.

[Dave]

Thanks, Dave, for helping me out with this. Picked up a used HBU-33 for $50 (was HARD to find here in Canada). Just got around to putting it up today and happy to report that I'm getting a good assortment of channels, including one from 90 km's away and a lot from the side/back, some of which are a good distance away too.

Cheers!
Dave.

[Dave Loudin]

Great! I'm glad things worked for you.