Multiple Antenna Implementation

[jupiterboy]

Hi, first post.

I'm in an older house in 14214 area code. I have an existing antenna that is missing most of its tines, and would like to replace it and also avoid a rotator.

http://www.tvfool.com/?option=com_wrapper&Itemid=29&q=id%3d60b50767e420b4

With some luck that link to location will work. At this stage, I'm thinking a high VHF/UHF long range antenna pointed NW, and a UHF pointing SE would, in theory, cover most of the digital stations I would like to get.

The house is at a higher point in the city, and a two story, so I think a 30 fit estimate is conservative.

Winegard 769P with an HD-1080 on the same tripod mast is what I'm considering.

I'd also like to improve my FM reception while I'm at it so a HD-6010 would be an option, if not on the same mast, in the attic or alternate mast.

It seems that every installer wants to put the same single antenna with a rotator. I do not want another remote, and have no place to put another box.

Still, I'm just diving in at the moment and am certain there are a myriad of issues I'm not considering. Most info regarding spacing on a single mast talks in terms of ghosting, which wouldn't be an issue for digital stations.

Thanks in advance for any input. I know it must get old. Cheers.

[John Candle]

How many tv's are/will be connected??

[jupiterboy]

How many tv's are/will be connected??

Only one. I'd assume running a separate run for the FM antenna, and possibly combining the other two into a single video? It's a Samsung from 2008, so it has a somewhat versatile tuner for analog and digital.

Although I'm really only interested in the digital channels. The one VHF that is south is of no interest.

[John Candle]

You are living the easy life , the tv stations from the USA and Canada will be received. I agree with your antenna selections , A HD7698P antenna aimed at about 320 degree magnetic compass and a HD1080 aimed at about 164 degree magnetic compass. Here is how to aim antennas , http://www.kyes.com/antenna/pointing/pointing.html . Separate RG-6 coax will go from each antenna to the location of the tv and a remote control A/B antenna switch will switch the antennas , AB27RS remote control A/B antenna switch. Do not try and combine the two antennas on to one coax , the reception will not be good. Here are some antenna mounts , http://www.ronard.com/909911.html , http://www.ronard.com/34424560.html , http://www.ronard.com/ychim.html. Here are places to buy antennas and etc. , http://www.solidsignal.com , http://www.amazon.com , http://www.starkelectronic.com , http://www.3starinc.com , http://www.winegarddirect.com. Mount the antennas about 4 feet apart on the same mast.

[John Candle]

WBBZ tv real channel 7 will be received any way. In addition to Daystar , WBBZ , http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/WBBZ-TV , also has , http://www.metvnetwork.com and http://www.thistv.com. Also read and understand about , REAL Digital Broadcast Tv Channels , Virtual Digital Broadcast Tv Channels , Analog Broadcast Tv Channels , http://forum.tvfool.com/showthread.php?t=695. Here are some tv guides , http://www.canada.com/entertainment/television/index.html , http://www.zap2it.com , http://television.aol.com , http://tv.yahoo.com , http://tv.entertainment.excite.com , http://www.titantv.com. Also most tv guides list the channels as virtual channels. Also new tv stations and digital channels can begin transmitting at any time so is good idea to scan for new channels from time to time.

[John Candle]

The HD6010 can be mounted at the very top of the mast or on a separate mast. Run a separate RG-6 coax from the HD6010 to the FM Tuner , do not connect to the other antennas.

[jupiterboy]

WBBZ tv real channel 7 will be received any way. In addition to Daystar , WBBZ also has , http://www.metvnetwork.com and http://www.thistv.com. Also read and understand about , REAL Digital Broadcast Tv Channels , Virtual Digital Broadcast Tv Channels , Analog Broadcast Tv Channels , http://forum.tvfool.com/showthread.php?t=695. Here are some tv guides , http://www.canada.com/entertainment/television/index.html , http://www.zap2it.com , http://television.aol.com , http://tv.yahoo.com , http://tv.entertainment.excite.com , http://www.titantv.com. Also most tv guides list the channels as virtual channels. Also new tv stations and digital channels can begin transmitting at any time so is good idea to scan for new channels from time to time.

Good info. Thanks for the confirmation. The A/B switch is something I can live with.

Would you hazard three on one mast? I'd guess the FM omni would need the greatest vertical separation?

http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y234/jupiterboy/Antenna.jpg

[jupiterboy]

http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y234/jupiterboy/Antenna.jpg

Great to have some confirmation. I can live with an A/B switch, and will see if the TV might be able to handle two direct lines.

[John Candle]

If those tree branches can come into contact with antennas , cut them back , Way Back. Tree branches get their happiness busting up antennas. Tree branches will fool you by saying , we can't reach that far , and then make a deal with the wind , and wang bang there goes the antenna.

[John Candle]

Some tv's do have more then one RF input , very nice. Here is more information. http://forum.tvfool.com/showthread.php?t=695. Here are ways to look up what networks are on the tv stations. In the google search box type in , wbbz tv or wbbz-tv or wbbz-tv 7 or variations there of.

[jupiterboy]

If those tree branches can come into contact with antennas , cut them back , Way Back. Tree branches get their happiness busting up antennas. Tree branches will fool you by saying , we can't reach that far , and then make a deal with the wind , and wang bang there goes the antenna.

That tree has been trimmed back, so I'm estimating 15-20 ft clearance. It actually needs to come down, but I fear the estimate of how much it will cost.

That switch box looks ideal. I'll need to add two in-line coax surge protectors to the two video feeds in the basement.

I wonder if I'll need a new ground rod outside the house, or if I can ground to the water in at the same location in the basement. I'm sure the installer will work it out.

Thanks again for the input.

One more question, in measuring the distance between antennas on a vertical mast, you are measuring distance between elements rather than mounting points.

Also, looking for info on max antenna height based on antenna weight, and stacking order—I imagine FM followed by 7694 and then the 1080, although I can see having the 1080 in the middle (both are high V though).

And while I'm at it, maybe the biggest question is how my tuner will handle the change from one antenna to another. It would be dreadful to have to rescan the channels every time I flip the A/B.

One more: Using this formula,

Calculate the minimum vertical spacing you need between the antennas. To do this, divide 467 by the lowest channel frequency that you are receiving. The low frequency for Channel 2 is 54-55 megahertz so the best minimum space is 467/54 = 8/64 feet.

It would indicate a minimum 2.7 ft space between the two antennas, and a 15 ft space between the FM antenna and the others, which would indicate a separate mounting. Is that right?

[John Candle]

I recommend putting the HD7698P antenna on the bottom next to the tripod , the HD1080 in the middle and the FM antenna on top. You are correct about the spacing , how ever it is ok to just put some spacing between the antennas on the same vertical mast. This reduces antenna interaction and is usually ok. If a reception situation does develop to the point that a channel or channels are not received and you think it might be antenna interaction then the antennas can be moved further apart to see if that helps. The distance is between the elements of one antenna to an other antenna.

[John Candle]

As for grounding , I do not say much about it any more. Grounding is a highly charged subject that motivates people with all manner of exstream views and opinions to jump in and sound off. That said , do ground the coaxes for interference reduction.

[jupiterboy]

I'll add this, as I contemplate how I might trick my TV into holding two separate signals' stations in memory without Auto programming every time I would switch.

http://www.hdtvprimer.com/ANTENNAS/merging.html

I still wonder about combining the signals into one run without a switch, but anticipating the outcome seems impossible.

I could go with a dedicated UHF that was more directional to the SE that had a less robust front-to-back profile.

I'm reading that with a rotator you have to auto program every time you reorient the antenna.

Any suggestions for a single antenna solution? If I give up on candada? Maybe just the 1080 and an FM? Those NW stations are only 7 miles away.

[John Candle]

As for the tuners , many tuners will scan and then can scan again for more channels. Some tuners will do direct channel entry. When doing direct channel entry , the Real Channel needs to be selected not the virtual channel. Read and understand about , REAL Digital Broadcast Tv Channels , Virtual Digital Broadcast Tv Channels , Analog Broadcast Tv Channels , http://forum.tvfool.com/showthread.php?t=695

[John Candle]

The Canada stations and USA stations are in the same direction to the north west so may as well get them now. You can buy this antenna and that antenna and some other antenna while playing around with reception so do it once the correct way.

[jupiterboy]

As for the tuners , many tuners will scan and then can scan again for more channels. Some tuners will do direct channel entry. When doing direct channel entry , the Real Channel needs to be selected not the virtual channel. Read and understand about , REAL Digital Broadcast Tv Channels , Virtual Digital Broadcast Tv Channels , Analog Broadcast Tv Channels , http://forum.tvfool.com/showthread.php?t=695

I get that the broadcast channel often doesn't match the listed, as the digital has shifted and they want to keep their old VHF number for marketing consistency.

My tuner does appear to be manually programmable.

Before this solution, I was really looking at some of the RV antennas, like a Sensar with a wingman, which has a nice two lobe bi-directional pattern that would appear to be a real candidate.

[Tower Guy]

I'm reading that with a rotator you have to auto program every time you reorient the antenna.



I depends on your TV set. Does it have a channel add feature? If so, you're all set. If not ganging the antennas is an option, but not very straightforward.

If not. I'd make a list of channel numbers and directions and switch the A/B switch between antennas while the TV was scanning while watching the channels number display in the auto scan. Do it once and you're golden.

Go Bills!

[jupiterboy]

Bad news. My TV will not let my manually add channels. The autoprogram runs quickly sometimes jumping several scanned channels so the idea of manually switching the antennas during the scan is looking like a non-starter.

Looks like it has to be a single multi-directional.

[GroundUrMast]

Why not take one step to begin with... The HD1080 or the FV HD30, also Winegard.

Facing about 160°, mounted in place of the rotator in your picture, you may be pleasantly surprised. you can then decide if you are missing stations important to you.

Do you have any desire to build an antenna yourself? If so, look at http://www.digitalhome.ca/ota/superantenna/ look at the single G-H, omit the reflector screen so that you would get reception from the front and rear of the antenna. Also, http://m4antenna.eastmasonvilleweather.com/index.html with a focus on the 9 1/2" whisker 4-bay, omitting the reflector.

And because JC mentioned it, I think it's a good idea to ground properly.

[jupiterboy]

Why not take one step to begin with... The HD1080 or the FV HD30, also Winegard.

Facing about 160°, mounted in place of the rotator in your picture, you may be pleasantly surprised. you can then decide if you are missing stations important to you.

Do you have any desire to build an antenna yourself? If so, look at http://www.digitalhome.ca/ota/superantenna/ look at the single G-H, omit the reflector screen so that you would get reception from the front and rear of the antenna. Also, http://m4antenna.eastmasonvilleweather.com/index.html with a focus on the 9 1/2" whisker 4-bay, omitting the reflector.

And because JC mentioned it, I thinks it's a good idea to ground properly.

So it appears I can manually input a channel, although the "how to" is not documented and Samsung tech does not seem to be aware of how to do it.

I'll look into these DIY models.

[GroundUrMast]

***Conspiracy Theory Rant Alert***

I suspect the cable companies pressure the TV manufactures to omit direct tuning and manual channel add features just to make OTA reception more difficult than it needs to be.

This has been a test of the conspiracy theory alert system. If this had been an actual conspiracy, the black helicopter would have taken me away before I could post this.

***End Conspiracy Theory Rant Alert***