ION Noblesville, IN 46062

[marni13]

I bought this antenna: Antenna Pros High Gain Digital Outdoor HDTV Antenna AX-909G2 Stealth from Antenna Hub: http://www.antennahub.com/long-range-tv-antenna.aspx?gclid=CODAgbTaxKkCFQzDKgod_hYPJg

We mounted it outside above the shed, so approx. 10 feet. It is run through the existing cable box to 5 tv's, only 3 are hooked up so far and we get great reception. But there is one station I really wanted and is why I bought a 150 mile range antenna. That would be ION. I can't get ION. Can anyone help with some suggestions on what I could change/add to get ION?

Thanks in advance for any help!!! I am a newbie!

[Dave Loudin]

Step one: please run a tvfool report for exact address and post the link for it.

Step two: return that antenna! You can claim that it didn't meet the specs - the ION station is somewhere around 50 miles from you.

What you have is an antenna that is only modestly sensitive connected to a strong amplifier. Contrary to claims, adding an amplifier does not extend range to that degree. What you need is an antenna like a Winegard 7694P or an Antenncraft HBU-33 to get the channels you want with no amplifier. Final judgement depends on your TVFool report.

[marni13]

Sorry! I posted the link to my tvfool address info, but I'm not sure what happened! http://www.tvfool.com/?option=com_wrapper&Itemid=29&q=id%3d14f33783309e9d

[Dave Loudin]

Your report shows that the ION affiliate is just over the horizon from you, hence the 1-edge label for the path. Note also that it is listed in the red zone of the table, implying that you need a sensitive (high-gain) antenna (NOT counting any amplifiers) to reliably pluck it out of the air. I recommend a Winegard HD7696P high VHF/ UHF antenna - your NBC station broadcasts in the high-VHF band, your CBS station broadcasts in both the VHF and UHF bands, and there is a low-power station on ch. 8 that relays the WISH radar. All your other channels (including ION) are UHF, so you need an antenna that covers both these bands.

Try without a pre-amplifier first to see if you get what you want. If ION doesn't show, then a preamp that will resist overloading from strong stations like the Winegard HDP-269 would be recommended. You will need to put the power supply for the preamp between the cable box and the antenna.

ION has plans to construct a low-power relay that would be co-located with all your other local channels and would be much easier to receive once it is on the air on ch. 34 (displayed as 51.1). A smaller antenna, like an Antennacraft HBU-33 or Winegard HD7694P would then suffice.

[marni13]

I have sent for RA for the antenna I bought. But I have a question about the Winegard antenna you suggested. This is what Newegg says about the range:

Active Elements: 28 Includes hardware for mounting to a mast; antenna has a 75 ohm coax connection Estimated Range: 30 miles VHF & 25 miles UHF UHF Elements: 17 VHF Elements: 11 Boom Length: 65" Maximum: 35" Element Diamter: 3/8" Turning Radius 43.25

I was trying to get ION, which is 44.1 miles away, and I believe it is a UHF station. Will this Winegard have enough range?

[marni13]

I have also found the AntennaCraft you suggested. This the specs on it:

Fringe High Band UHF/VHF/ TV Antenna
31 Active Electronic Elements
80" Boom Length
UHF Range Up To: 60 Miles (Ch. 14 - 69)
VHF High Range UP To: 70 Miles (Ch. 7 - 13)

So maybe I should get the antenna craft instead? Thank you so much for your help!!!

[rickcain]

I bought this antenna: Antenna Pros High Gain Digital Outdoor HDTV Antenna AX-909G2 Stealth from Antenna Hub: http://www.antennahub.com/long-range-tv-antenna.aspx?gclid=CODAgbTaxKkCFQzDKgod_hYPJg




A very bad antenna return it if you can, and go for the Antennacraft instead.

[marni13]

Will I need an amplifier to go through the cable box to 5 tv's? We currently only have 3 hooked up, the other 2 are old and need converter boxes. But instead of wasting money on converter boxes, we are going to purchase 2 new tvs.

[GroundUrMast]

DL is offering you sound advice.

As you have already shown with your first antenna purchase, mileage claims can be made with little if any scientific evidence to support the claim. In fact, I submit that the science would disprove the more fantastic advertising claims.

When dealing with reputable antenna manufactures, mileage claims can be somewhat helpful (to a non-technical sales person and non-technical customer). When legitimate gain figures are available together with a reasonably accurate signal strength prediction (Thank you TV Fool), a far more accurate estimate of performance can be made. DL has access to both your TV Fool report and the gain figures for the antennas he has suggested. (You have been offered the fundamental parts of an engineering study that would have cost hundreds or thousands of dollars a few years ago if you had hired an engineering firm to do an analysis of your reception conditions.)

As far as going "through the cable box" is concerned, are you describing a structured cabling terminal like this... http://www.twacomm.com/catalog/model_47605-42N.htm?sid=FB4F118A37818B6B73561DDF699489C4 that is the central distribution point for data, phone and TV in your home?

I feel the need to caution against connecting your antenna to any part of an active cable TV network. If you do, you risk causing harmful interference with aviation communication and navigation services, police, fire and other life safety services could also be affected.


DL has suggested, and I agree, try without an amplifier. An amplifier that is not needed actually reduces the quality of all the signals.

[marni13]

We had comcast, and are currently going through that box with the original antenna pro antenna. We are getting great reception on the 3 tvs that are hooked up. Should I just try the antennacraft alone first and see how that goes? I just ordered it tonight.

[GroundUrMast]

Are you still using Comcast for internet?

There are many different types of 'cable boxes' around. Has the feed cable from Comcast been disconnected (connector unscrewed and cable left unconnected) to make way for the feed from your OTA antenna? Is there a splitter in the cable box? I am trying to be sure that you are not going to have a Comcast tech and agents from the FCC and FAA knocking on your door. The Comcast tech can't cite you or arrest you but the other two are from the government and want to 'help' you.

If you have already bought the Antennacraft, try it without any amplifier. If you connect the new antenna to one TV (no splitters or amplifiers, just a cable from the antenna directly to the TV, you'll know what channels are available. If some of those channels go away or become unreliable when you split to many sets... then an amplifier would be indicated... to overcome the losses in the cable and splitters. An amplifier will not do the antennas job, really, it won't.

[marni13]

We discontinued service with comcast, and WE unhooked their line into the box and replace it with the line from the antenna. We have internet through ATT. There is a splitter so it can go to the 5 tvs.

[GroundUrMast]

We discontinued service with comcast, and WE unhooked their line into the box and replace it with the line from the antenna. We have internet through ATT. There is a splitter so it can go to the 5 tvs.

Good... please forgive me for being so forceful about this... but radiating signal from a cable TV system is something to avoid. :)

[marni13]

I didn't know about this stuff, so I'm glad you asked. I don't need any trouble from the government, they give us enough without asking!!! LOL I'll just try the antenna by itself on one tv first, and then hook it up to the splitter in the cable box. If we need an amp, do you recommend any for the antennacraft? Also, the antenna I have now has the motor that turns the antenna from the inside. I don't see that the antenna craft has this. Is this something we can add, and if so, do you recommend a certain one?

[GroundUrMast]

DL suggested a Winegard HDP-269mplifier which can handle strong local signals better than most other amplifiers. A worthy competitor to the Winegard would be an Antennas Direct CPA-19.

I'm rather hopeful you'll find a single aim point that works well. I would suggest aiming directly at WIPX, 192° per your compass. Then, if needed, adjust a bit toward the west to deal with any stations that might be a bit weak due to the aim being a bit off. The stronger signals SW of you will be easier to receive than WIPX.

A rotator will frustrate viewers who want the antenna aimed some direction other than where the person with the rotator remote chooses. If you must have a rotator, the Channel Master CM9521a is a consumer grade (priced) option. For larger antennas and locations prone to extremely cold weather, the Hy-Gain AR-40 is a far more robust rotator (as it's price would imply).

[Billiam]

Marni13. Last year I stayed at a motel at exit 3 off I 69 in Fishers. I was able to get the Ion signal you mentioned while staying on the 2nd floor while facing Indy when using a Channel Master 4 bay 4221 antenna with my TV. I think mounting a HBU 33 on the roof will give you every signal that you need from the Indy area and also the VHF signal from Lafayette. BTW. I did this without a preamp. If you don't have any obstacles in the direction facing the weak signals then you probably won't need a pre amp. Just get your antenna on the roof and you should be fine. You may need a rotor though since your signals come from different directions. I needed to rotate my antenna inside the motel room by 25 degrees or so in order to obtain every Indy signal including the ION station.

[Billiam]

If you need a rotor I am going to recommend the following three units. I own them all and each one has worked perfectly through the past winter despite temperatures dropping below zero a couple of times and also during days when we had single digits.

NTE U105 and 106. The 106 is digital programmable. The Antennacraft TDP-2 is also a good rotor and can handle fairly large antennas. A lot of people gripe about the Channel Master 9521 locking up in the winter due to apparent bearing problems associated with the grease in the unit freezing. I did not experience this with my rotors.

[marni13]

I can't get any of the ION channels. I changed the antenna to the antenna craft suggested above. Not sure what the problem is. Should I try a preamp?

[Billiam]

Yes, try a pre amp. WIPX TV is a pretty weak signal and it appears as though you will need amplification to receive it.

But first, are you using a rotor or are you simply pointing the antenna in one direction? If the antenna is not pointed directly at WIPX then you will probably not receive it with this antenna. I'd try rotating the antenna first before using a pre amp. Since you have some strong signals in the area they could overload the pre amp and wipe out a lot of stations.

[Billiam]

This station should come in at your location. Note in the link below they have a translator station which is in the green in your location.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/WIPX-TV

Did you rescan the channels after changing antennas?

[marni13]

Yes I rescanned after installing the new antenna. We do not have a rotator apart from us running out and re-adjusting. What note are you talking about on the Wiki link?

[marni13]

Also, I'm not getting analog channels. Even on the older tvs with converter boxes I'm not getting those. should I? Trying to figure all this stuff out!

[marni13]

I clicked on the links and opened the one from the FCC. On it there was a link to google maps, which shows a blue mark down by Edinburgh. Is that the tower you were taking about?

[Billiam]

They have a translator on Channel 51 in your area. That signal shows in the green and is quite strong in your location. That should be viewable.

[marni13]

Just checked. I typed in 51 in the remote and got no signal. Tried on a new tv and an older one with a converter box.

[marni13]

Also tried 51.1

[Billiam]

Check with some friends to see if they are having any problems receiving this station. I am out of ideas right now.

[marni13]

Does it matter which "end" of the antenna I'm pointing in that direction? Thank you so much for your help. We'll keep trying. I don't know anyone else around me that has an antenna. My dad lives next door and only has rabbit ears on a mini-tv in his shop. He doesn't get ION either, but I wouldn't expect him to with just rabbit ears. They have cable in the house.

[Billiam]

Yes, the end that looks like a large V with a metal pole in the middle. <--- this side is the front. The poles that run out of the middle of the antenna that are small and round are the back side.

[ADTech]

Just checked. I typed in 51 in the remote and got no signal. Tried on a new tv and an older one with a converter box.

That only works on a select group of tuners (works on Samsungs!). Most do not support "direct access".

In general, the antenna must be receiving the signal during the channel scan in order for the tuner to memorize it.

In any event, that channel 51 translator was an analog facility which may or may not still be on the air. A CP was issued in '09 for a digital 34 facility, but, since that roughly coincided with ION's bankruptcy, I doubt that it has been built.

[GroundUrMast]

Digging around, looking at rabbitears.info, the only reference to WIPX that includes TSR data (Transport Stream Reader data implies the station was on the air so that someone in the vicinity could receive the signal) is for the WIPX-DT transmitter on real channel 27 (VC 63.x)

Additional antenna height and a good low noise preamp are logical next steps.

[John Candle]

Read and understand about , REAL Digital Broadcast Tv Channels , Virtual Digital Broadcast Tv Channels , Analog Broadcast Tv Channels , http://forum.tvfool.com/showthread.php?t=695

[John Candle]

Here is how to aim antennas , http://www.kyes.com/antenna/pointing/pointing.html. I can also recommend a antenna that will work if you like.

[Billiam]

This may be a tuner problem. I've compared different TV's over the last couple of years and found while one TV would get every channel available, a couple others would note. Most notably a Sanyo that I purchased I had to return because it would not get the same channels as the Sony and Samsung TV's that I demo'd at the same time.

Try a good pre amp and see if that solves the problem. That Ch. 51 translator does show up as a Pending digital signal for the future. So, at least according to TV Fool it may eventually hit the air. I also went to the FCC database and unless I missed something about the application being dismissed, it is still planned to go on the air at some point.

[No static at all]

Even on the older tvs with converter boxes I'm not getting those. should I? Trying to figure all this stuff out!Are any of the converter boxes you have Zenith or Insignia units? These units feature a manual manual tuning feature so you can so if there is any signal at all, even if it is too weak to decode.

What brands of digital TV's do you have?

[John Candle]

If you like , I can recommend a antenna that will receive the tv stations to the north east and south west with one antenna. Also here are converter boxes , http://forum.tvfool.com/showthread.php?t=380

[Dave Loudin]

John, the OP is now working on a second antenna. Stop implying you have some secret sauce the rest of don't have.

@marni13, I wish I had the chance to talk you into the larger antenna. Apparently the in-town digital relay on ch. 34 is not on the air (you have to enter 34 to get your tuners to directly go to that channel.) Your new TV may not have an analog tuner. If so, it will not see the ch. 51 station if it is on the air. The converter boxes definitely do not have analog tuners.

Go back and read my recommendations. With your setup, you will need a preamp to zero out cable losses. Hopefully, that will give you just enough signal-to-noise ratio for the main ION channel so it will decode.

Please take time to read the Signal Analysis FAQ that's linked to in your report. It should help you better understand what is going on.

[John Candle]

I recommend a Antennacraft U8000 antenna aimed at about 206 degree magnetic compass. A simple modifacation of the U8000 antenna that makes the U8000 antenna into a 2 direction antenna is to remove the 18 reflector rods by drilling out rivets that hold the flat metal clips and reflector rods in place. http://www.antennacraft.net/pdfs/U8000.pdf . Now the U8000 will receive the tv station (WNDY-TV) to the north east and south/south west group of tv stations. No need for rotor or additional wiring.

[John Candle]

Here are some tv guides , http://www.zap2it.com , http://television.aol.com , http://tv.yahoo.com , http://tv.entertainment.excite.com , http://www.tvzap.com , http://www.titantv.com. Tv guides mostly list the tv channels as the virtual channels. Also digital tv stations can begin broadcasting at any time and new digital sub channels can be added at any time with out prior notice , so is a good idea to scan for new channels from time to time.

[marni13]

I still can't get ION. I'm not nearly as happy with this Antenna Craft as I was with the original antenna I had. I'm going to get a rotor and raise the antenna some more to see if this helps. If not, I'll look into getting a preamp. Alot of our channels are pixelated, which is very frustrating. We didn't have nearly as much trouble with the original antenna, which I returned!

[Billiam]

I still can't get ION. I'm not nearly as happy with this Antenna Craft as I was with the original antenna I had. I'm going to get a rotor and raise the antenna some more to see if this helps. If not, I'll look into getting a preamp. Alot of our channels are pixelated, which is very frustrating. We didn't have nearly as much trouble with the original antenna, which I returned!

Which Antennacraft model are you using presently?

You will likely need a preamp in this situation. But, yes first try some additional height to see if that solves the problem.

[marni13]

Antennacraft HBU-33

[Billiam]

The location may also be the problem. I had to try three different locations on my roof before I could find the best spot that gave me good reception of all my local signals. HDTV signals are pretty finicky.

[marni13]

Unfortunately, the roof is not an option. I am the one messing around with this stuff for the most part. So we have the antenna on a 3/4 inch conduit pipe running up the side of the shed. So far, we have it at approx. 10 ft. I know this is part of the issue, but I can't climb around on the roof! This is what I have "bookmarked" to buy when I get the money:
1. WINEGARD HDP-269
Low Noise, High Input UHF/VHF Pre-Amp!
2. Round 3 Wire Rotor Cable
3. Model TDP-2 Antennacraft Heavy-Duty Antenna Rotator

[Billiam]

Good rotor. I own one and like it. It will easily handle much larger antennas if needed. I have an HBU 55 on it and it works great.

The pre amp you've chosen is usually the one people recommend for stronger signal areas. So, this should work especially if you get the antenna up a little higher. At ten feet you have too many obstacles in the way of the signal to the antenna.

[No static at all]

Did you ever try connecting the antenna directly to 1 TV with no splits? This is a good place to start before adding any amplification.