Help with equipment selection rural area.

[nrune]

http://www.tvfool.com/?option=com_wrapper&Itemid=29&q=id%3d9e74501ae1d57a

Okay gang I need some help with selecting and installing equipment. I live in the middle of nowhere in the middle of two transmitters.

The plan is to run an Dual HD Homerun with mythtv.

So here are a list of my concerns / desires

Would prefer to do an attic mount as I have a two story house and an attic. is this possible?

I don't understand how some stations are analog and others are digital, I thought everything was now digital with the digital conversion


what would you recommend for an antenna and preamp?

thanks

[John Candle]

Here is the truth about Analog and Digital. http://forum.tvfool.com/showthread.php?t=695. Canadas target date for digital conversion is Aug. 31 2011 and after that date Canada will still have a mix of digital and analog. Mexico also has a mix of digital and analog. The urban and middle of nowhere rumors are every where and 99% of them are wrong. Some of then are even straight out lies.

[John Candle]

Dual home run being , 2 RG-6 coax to each location of the Tv's. And what is mythtv?? Local slang is not well known through out the USA.

[nrune]

myth TV is kind of like a TiVo for Linux media computer.

okay so at least I have a digital option of some sort.

[GroundUrMast]

The HDHomeRun will not receive and demodulate analog signals. It does not have an MPEG-2 encoder to convert analog to digital, a requirement for streaming over a digital media such as Ethernet.

If you are interested in reception of the analog signals, products such as the Hauppage HVR-1850 offer analog to digital MPEG-2 encoding hardware.

There are only three receivable digital signals listed on your report; W30CI-NBC, W25AA-PBS & W34DN-ABC. (Network affiliation per www.rabitears.info (http://www.rabitears.info/)). I don't hold much hope that an attic mounted antenna will provide reliable reception. An Antennas Direct XG-91 or Winegard HD9095P might work but I suspect one of those antennas would need to be outdoors in the clear.

Attic mounting can be attempted... but the predicted signal levels are relatively weak and at the height you ran your report at, shows the stations to be just below the horizon which makes you more susceptible to fading and multipath. If you can mount on the roof at greater height above ground, you would do well to run another TVFR based on the higher elevation.

If your situation remains as shown in your first TVFR, I would use a two antenna system. An XG-91 aimed at 34° and an Antennas Direct DB-4 or XG-43 aimed at 239°. I would equip each antenna with a CPA-18 preamp from the same vendor. I would use multiple tuners, using MythTV software to select from the appropriate tuner based on channel selection. I run such a system myself. http://forum.tvfool.com/showthread.php?t=820

@JC, MythTV is an open source media center software suite. It is commonly run on Linux based systems although it has been ported to other OS platforms. MythTV is not "Local slang". Open source software suffers some of the same ignorance and mis/dis-information as OTA reception. http://www.mythtv.org/
Some people would tell you your only option for computer operating systems are Microsoft and Apple... they're ignorant or they're liars.

[John Candle]

It's still slang and abbevations and not every one knows what it is. It is better to explain what you are talking about , it's what I do. The pending applications included shows there are 4 receivable digital channels at 45 degree magnetic compass. Here is how to aim antennas , http://www.kyes.com/antenna/pointing/pointing.html , http://www.rabbitears.info/market.php?request=station_search&callsign=14087. I recommend a Antennas Direct 91-XG antenna mounted outside. Here are antenna mounts , http://www.ronard.com/909911.html , http://ronard.com/34424560.html , http://www.ronard.com/yghim.html. Here are places to buy antennas and ect. , http://www.solidsignal.com , http://www.amazon.com , http://www.starkelectronic.com , http://www.3starinc.com

[John Candle]

As an experiment you can aim the antenna at 228 degree magnetic compass and try for WVBT 29 Fox and WTVZ-DT 33 MyNetwork , however the stations are very weak and reception is a 'experiment'. You can add a Antennas Direct CPA-19 preamp to the antenna , to reach out for those stations , like I say it is a experiment. You can also try for the the analog stations at 250 degree magnetic compass and see if any of them are transmitting. You can also find out what programing is on Tv stations by typing the stations call letters like this - wtvz tv - (with out the dashes) in the google search box. Here are some converter boxes that convert analog to digital and some will receive digital and output digital at low definition digital and high definition digital. http://forum.tvfool.com/showthread.php?t=380. Some have built in recorders.

[GroundUrMast]

Per http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Slang

Few linguists (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Linguist) have endeavored to clearly define what constitutes slang.[1] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Slang#cite_note-Dumas.26Lighter-0) Attempting to remedy this, Bethany K. Dumas and Jonathan Lighter argue that an expression should be considered "true slang" if it meets at least two of the following criteria:


It lowers, if temporarily, "the dignity of formal or serious speech or writing"; in other words, it is likely to be considered in those contexts a "glaring misuse of register (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Register_%28linguistics%29)."
Its use implies that the user is familiar with whatever is referred to, or with a group of people who are familiar with it and use the term.
"It is a taboo term in ordinary discourse with people of a higher social status or greater responsibility."
It replaces "a well-known conventional synonym". This is done primarily to avoid the discomfort caused by the conventional item or by further elaboration.[1] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Slang#cite_note-Dumas.26Lighter-0)

Slang is different from jargon (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jargon), which is the technical vocabulary of a particular profession, and which meets only the second of the criteria given above. Jargon, like many examples of slang, may be used to exclude non–group members from the conversation, but in general has the function of allowing its users to talk precisely about the technical issues in a given field.

Just because one or more people are not familiar with a word, name or term does not make the word name or term 'slang'. If it did, then many terms used to describe antennas and OTA reception concepts would be slang. Much of the language used in this and other forums qualifies as jargon. The name of established and widely distributed software certainly does not deserve to be demeaned as 'slang'.

@JC, I agree that terms often need to be clearly explained. However, as you often point out, a simple Google search will quite often yield a great deal of enlightening information.

[John Candle]

I very much agree. If I 'have to' or 'choose to' use slang or jargon I endeavor to explain the slang or jargon , so it becomes a educational process for every one. That way more people can understand each other. Here at tvfool it is very important that the truth and the message and the understanding of why and how to do it is provided in a way that a person can know that project can be done by that person.

[John Candle]

Demeaned as slang. My point of view. If a person is whipping jargon around this way and that way or using jargon to 'try' and make a point with jargon when it is not a useful way to communicate. Then the jargon is lowered and demeaned and becomes slang or something worse.

[nrune]

Couple of things.

Sorry for the debate on lingo.

I ran the report at ground level, I have a two story house with attic, re running the report with about 26 feet elevation shows a different story.

I think that I can capture the signals with an attic mount, but if not I will just take the thing and mount it outside.

http://www.tvfool.com/?option=com_wrapper&Itemid=29&q=id%3d9e74360605e89a

Thanks for all the help. Much appreciated.

Mike

[GroundUrMast]

Couple of things.

Sorry for the debate on lingo.

I ran the report at ground level, I have a two story house with attic, re running the report with about 26 feet elevation shows a different story.

I think that I can capture the signals with an attic mount, but if not I will just take the thing and mount it outside.

http://www.tvfool.com/?option=com_wrapper&Itemid=29&q=id%3d9e74360605e89a

Thanks for all the help. Much appreciated.

Mike

I don't think you have anything to apologize for. I think you were unfairly and falsely accused of using slang. MythTV is the name of the media center software you're using, it's correct of you to use the name.

Clearly, signal conditions improve at the 26' level. In the direction of 215° I would expect a Winegard HD7968P with an Antennas Direct CPA-18 to have a reasonable chance of receiving a full line-up of major networks. I think you will need to mount outdoors though. (Try in the attic... you might get lucky.) I'll bet that signal conditions will be even better if you can mount on the roof peak with a tripod and mast.

Starting with one antenna and tuner, you can explore the options... You may or may not want to add a second antenna and tuner (aiming at 34°). It will be interesting to hear how the project works out.

[nrune]

Thanks for the advice.

The transmitter 34 deg has abc, nbc, cbs and pbs. Only thing missing is fox and I don't think that I can get fox at 217. I think that I should be able to get all stations at 34 deg using an attic mount and a preamp. 15 Mi vs 72 Mi. Not interested in analog signals at 239 deg so I think that it pretty much what sure I am going to try. Will let you know how I do.

Mike

[nrune]

The antenna arrived today, and mounted in the attic with some difficulty this thing is huge. First try at digital stations was met with some success, got two digital stations that were really unwatchable, choppy. Proceeding with step 2 and preamp on order. Update Friday.

Mike

[nrune]

Preamp arrived today. Preamp off 2 digitial stations pretty choppy. Preamp on, nothing , 100% signal loss, no channels found at all.

ideas? recommendation for an outdoor mount?

Mike

[No static at all]

What antenna did you end up getting?

[nrune]

I suppose that might be helpfull huh.

91 xg with a PA 18 preamp.

Thanks!

[No static at all]

Getting the antenna outside at least 5 feet above the roof line should improve reliability. An eave or chimney mount would be easiest, but not sure which would work best for you. A tripod is another option, but I personally don't like drilling holes in the roof.

You may not need the preamp with the antenna outside, so I would try without it first.

[nrune]

I found that it helps to check cable, I had r 59 instead of RG 6. replaced some of the cable with rg6 and it improved went from 2 c to 5. Going to replace the entire run and see if that fixes the rest of the channels.

Mike

[ADTech]

If you lost all channels when th ePA18 was installed, then either the PA18 has an error in the cabling or it's defective. It's fairly easy to check the most common things.

1) Unplugging the power supply is NOT a valid test. This turns the amp into a 30 dB attenuator which will allow only the strongest signals to get through. You must *completely* remove both the amp and the power inserter to avoid this condition.

2) Verify that there are no devices in the coaxial cable run between the inserter and the amplifier module. A splitter with a single DC pass port may be used, but it is necessary to verify that the proper cable goes on the proper output port. An example is shown here: http://www.antennasdirect.com/cmss_files/attachmentlibrary/Using_A_Preamplifier_With_A_Splitter_Opt2.pdf

3) If there are no apparent cabling problems and there are no splitters in the line, connect the amp per instructions and plug in the power supply. Within 30 minutes, a normally operating transformer will feel slightly warm to the touch. if it remains at room temperature, either the receptacle is unpowered or the transformer is open. If you have a multimeter, the transformer primary should measure between 350 and 400 ohms. If it reads open-circuit, the transformer has failed and will require replacement.

4) If you have a multi-meter, you can check for power at the amplifier end of the coaxial cable. With the transformer plugged in, you would normally see 16-18 volts DC at the cable end at the amp measured from the center conductor to the shield. Take precautions so that you do not accidentally short the center lead to the shield. If you do, you'll likely blow the primary of the power transformer.

5) If everything else checks out, the amp is likely dead. Contact us through normal channels for warranty assistance.

[nrune]

The preamp is working fine. The user needed to follow directions.

So this is what I find really weird, I am picking up stations over 50 Mi away with my attic mount, the local stations at 14 mi away are a total no go. Weird.

Mike

[nrune]

Moving the antenna to 0 deg north I am able to pick up abc, cbs, fox, PBS and The CW. There is no NBC affiliate that far north. These are all being broadcast from 50 mi+ and my antenna is still in the attic. Not sure how this is possible, but I'll take it. Moving to phase three which will end up with a home made tivo like device. Thanks to everyone for all the help.