Lost all VHF stations

[blackstone]

I was happily getting all the stations that were available to me on VHF and UHF until a week and a half ago.

I received a lot of great patient help here in this thread a couple years ago.
http://forum.tvfool.com/showthread.php?t=16358

Forgive the long post and hope you will help me again.
Thanks, in advance.

About 10 days ago we had some pretty high winds that spun my CM VHF antenna around and pulled the cable out of it's connector.
After several failed attempts to put on a new end, I bought a new 50' cable.

There was still a section of cable I couldn't reach because the connections were too high above my roof line to reach and it's a bit of a chore to drop the antenna and raise it again.

I got a new antenna from Antennas Direct; a ClearStream 5.
Moved it away from the metal roof and it's 16'-18' high.

It's pointed around 220.

Before, I got the following VHF stations:
WPCW 11 (RF) 19 Virtual
WTOV 9 9
WQED 13 13
WWCP 8 8

After I only get WWCP.
I shouldn't get this because it's in a way different direction.

I got a Klein continuity tester.
Connected to the coax that runs to the antenna,
It reads "Open"

Not sure what that means or how to fix the problem.

The cable is connected to the balun on one end and a pre-amp on the other

[Nascarken]

So what kind of ANTENNA were you using before the antenna Direct?
If you were using a Winegrud 8200U the best ANTENNA for the money
but it sounds like you will have to get a new balun
For it that is what happens to them that is why you have lots
your vhf channels GO to solied SIGNAL.com for a new balun
Cost is like $20dollars+shipping

[blackstone]

Thanks for your response, Nascarken.

I was using a Channel Master directional antenna; about 30 years old.
Since I didn't know if these things deteriorate, I bought the ClearStream.

I discovered that Antennas Direct is open 7 days and was able to contact them.

The first rep said to get a new coax to replace the new coax.
After doing that, I still had an open circuit.

The second rep diagnosed a bad balun, too, and they are sending one out at no charge.

One of the other things that puzzled me is why I'm getting WWCP 8.
Even now with the VHF completely disconnected.

I'm guessing that I get it through their UHF channel 23 even though it shows up on 8 when I scan

[Nascarken]

Yes that's true and why is that it's becuse of your amp will some time's pull in vhf channels.And antnnas Direct is good when it comes to their antennas they stand behind
their products

[blackstone]

Thanks Nascarken

[blackstone]

Rather than start a new thread, I thought I'd resurrect this one because it is still related.

Thanks, in advance, for your suggestions.

After replacing the balun, I still wasn't able to get much reception.

I figured out that my Channel Master amp went bad.
Upon replacement, I got lots of stations again.
For a short while, that is.

I have lost all but one of my VHF stations and can't get them back.
The stations I have lost are:
WPCW 19 which was one of my strongest stations. I was able to get that, almost, with the antenna on the ground. Now, it is very weak and pixelated.

WTOV 9. This one was a long ways off but came in real well. Nothing now.

WQED 13. This wasn't a terribly strong station but it usually came in.

(I have, also, lost WPGH 53 (virtual) and this is the only UHF station I can't get.)

It is my understanding that WQED has moved to low on the VHF band and reduced power.
I was told that WPGH has also moved down to real channel 20.

Right now, the Clear Stream gets WWCO 8 because I pointed it there to get a Fox channel and it's strong.

I have tried from 180 to 245 degrees trying to pick up some of the lost stations but nothing.

I have about one week to decide to return the Clear Stream to Antennas Direct and go back to a directional antenna.

Any thoughts are appreciated.

[Nascarken]

Rather than start a new thread, I thought I'd resurrect this one because it is still related.

Thanks, in advance, for your suggestions.

After replacing the balun, I still wasn't able to get much reception.

I figured out that my Channel Master amp went bad.
Upon replacement, I got lots of stations again.
For a short while, that is.

I have lost all but one of my VHF stations and can't get them back.
The stations I have lost are:
WPCW 19 which was one of my strongest stations. I was able to get that, almost, with the antenna on the ground. Now, it is very weak and pixelated.

WTOV 9. This one was a long ways off but came in real well. Nothing now.

WQED 13. This wasn't a terribly strong station but it usually came in.

(I have, also, lost WPGH 53 (virtual) and this is the only UHF station I can't get.)

It is my understanding that WQED has moved to low on the VHF band and reduced power.
I was told that WPGH has also moved down to real channel 20.

Right now, the Clear Stream gets WWCO 8 because I pointed it there to get a Fox channel and it's strong.

I have tried from 180 to 245 degrees trying to pick up some of the lost stations but nothing.

I have about one week to decide to return the Clear Stream to Antennas Direct and go back to a directional antenna.

Any thoughts are appreciated.

For what you payed yes you should .

[ADTech]

Please contact our customer tech support directly for assistance, the contact form link is in my signature below.

[blackstone]

ADTech, I have been in touch with customer support.
I forgot to mention that.

Their solution was to point my Clear Stream at WWCP 8 to get Fox. I did that

No suggestions on how to get the CW, forget about WQED and maybe raising or lowering my UHF may get channel 53 back.

[blackstone]

By the way, I'm not knocking Antennas Direct.

I happen to think they're a company with integrity.

I'm just trying to get the same stations I got recently that have disappeared

[JoeAZ]

You may just be encountering the repack in your area.
I suggest you rescan and see if any of those stations
come in again.

[Nascarken]

Yes fcc suggests that you rescan all TV do too the repacking of BROADCASTING channel's
And you might have to bring your antenna up 10ft more and did you get a new channels master amp!!

[blackstone]

Thanks for the suggestions.

I rescan (almost) daily with no effect.

Antennas Direct support said that one station, WPGH 53, moved from real 43 to 20.
I think they said that it would improve the signal through the hills but decrease it through the trees (or something like that.)

WQED 13 moved from real 13 to 2 and cut their power.
The tech said I might need a low VHF directional antenna.

The other two stations are a mystery.

I was looking at replacing my Clear Stream 5 with something like a Channel Master 3020 or 5020.

I can't determine if the 3020 is a low VHF antenna or not.

Also, looking for the reception angle for the 3020.
Supposedly the 5020 is this:

Reception angles:
VHF L (channels 2-6, and FM) 63 degrees
VHF H (channels 7-13) 34 degrees
UHF 39 degrees

[Nascarken]

Yes sounds like the channel master is a good pick.

[blackstone]

I ended up doing a return on the Clear Stream and ordered a CM 5020.
Several things were factors in the decision to go with this one.
The weight and size are a little smaller so I'm hoping it will handle winds a little better on the mast.
Reception angles and it states low VHF.

If Antenna Direct had a VHF antenna like that, I would have, probably, gone with them again because I think they are a decent company

[Nascarken]

I ended up doing a return on the Clear Stream and ordered a CM 5020.
Several things were factors in the decision to go with this one.
The weight and size are a little smaller so I'm hoping it will handle winds a little better on the mast.
Reception angles and it states low VHF.

If Antenna Direct had a VHF antenna like that, I would have, probably, gone with them again because I think they are a decent company

You should have went with the 3020,IT'S better for the low vhf.&
Suggest you should use a channel master 7778AMP
We'll good luck let us know what happens with it when you install it.

[blackstone]

The 3020 was cheaper, too.
If I could have found info that stated low VHF, I may have gone that route.

I do have a channel master amp that's only a month old and a pretty new pre-amp.

Looks to be about a week for the new antenna to be ready for pick up.
I'll be back

[Nascarken]

The 3020 was cheaper, too.
If I could have found info that stated low VHF, I may have gone that route.

I do have a channel master amp that's only a month old and a pretty new pre-amp.

Looks to be about a week for the new antenna to be ready for pick up.
I'll be back

You should have looked at SOLiD single.com
and I didn't know if you had an amplifier
So how hi up are you going with the channel master.
But I think you should have went with the 3020.
I think it's more of what you are looking for.
The 5020 is more hi band vhf,than low the 5020
Came out when the hi vh f Took off
The 3020 has a better RECEIVE on low band vhf.
Go to SOLiD single.com and check it out.

[blackstone]

Thanks for that info, nascarken.

The antenna is, probably, going up 16'-18'.
I may have understood what you meant by the amp.
I have a CM amp/splitter in my basement.
I'd have to check the model

What is the link you are sending me to?
I looked at solidsingle dot com and that isn't valid

[Nascarken]

Thanks for that info, nascarken.

The antenna is, probably, going up 16'-18'.
I may have understood what you meant by the amp.
I have a CM amp/splitter in my basement.
I'd have to check the model

What is the link you are sending me to?
I looked at solidsingle dot com and that isn't valid

Two word's SOLiD single.com

[Tower Guy]

Two word's SOLiD single.com

You probably mean solidsignal.com

[blackstone]

Here's an update and a few more questions, please, if you will indulge me.

Received and installed the CM 5020 this week.
So, I am using it as well as the DB8-E.

Most of the lost stations have re-appeared.
Some aren't quite watchable yet.
Hopefully, a little tweak will help.

I got back WPCW 19 the CW and WTOV Channel 9.
WPGH 53 is so-so.
I am picking up WQED 13 PBS but it's not watchable.

An oddity (to me) was when I had no VHF antenna connected I received WWCP 8 better than I do with an antenna.

I seem to have lost strength on a couple stations that are UHF.
WTAE 4 and WJAC 6.
These were real strong with the DB8-E only but go in and out now that I have both.

Is there some conflict with using these two antennas?
The Channel Master is @ 18' and pointing at 225
I haven't moved the DB 8E in months.
It is 12' and @ 210

Thanks, again, for any insights

[Tim]

Here's an update and a few more questions, please, if you will indulge me.

Received and installed the CM 5020 this week.
So, I am using it as well as the DB8-E.

Most of the lost stations have re-appeared.
Some aren't quite watchable yet.
Hopefully, a little tweak will help.

I got back WPCW 19 the CW and WTOV Channel 9.
WPGH 53 is so-so.
I am picking up WQED 13 PBS but it's not watchable.

An oddity (to me) was when I had no VHF antenna connected I received WWCP 8 better than I do with an antenna.

I seem to have lost strength on a couple stations that are UHF.
WTAE 4 and WJAC 6.
These were real strong with the DB8-E only but go in and out now that I have both.

Is there some conflict with using these two antennas?
The Channel Master is @ 18' and pointing at 225
I haven't moved the DB 8E in months.
It is 12' and @ 210

Thanks, again, for any insights

So do you have both the antennas connected together using a common splitter? If so, you may be having signals arriving at each antenna out of phase and cancelling each other out

[blackstone]

Thanks for the response, Tim.

Each antenna is on the same mast with separate lines coming into the house with separate pre-amps.

They are separate until they combine at a combiner to go into my distribution amp
Hope this is what you are asking

[Tim]

Thanks for the response, Tim.

Each antenna is on the same mast with separate lines coming into the house with separate pre-amps.

They are separate until they combine at a combiner to go into my distribution amp
Hope this is what you are asking

Yes, so what are you using for a combiner?

[blackstone]

Something I got from Antennas Direct several years ago, I think.


It looks like a splitter turned around but it's not.
I have been using it since I got a second antenna way back.

I tried the splitters turned around and they didn't work.
This has worked for quite a while

[blackstone]

The combiner is a Channelplus and it says combiner/splitter.

Since I woke up in the middle of the night and couldn't get back to sleep I decided to test something.

I disconnected the DB 8-E to see what I could get.
I continued to get WTOV 9, WQED 13 a little better and WPCW 19 as well as WPGH 53.
All VHF stations except for 53.

Then, I disconnected the Channel Master.
This allowed WTAE 4, WPXI 11 and WJAC 6 to come in clear and strong again but no 53.

This implies there is some kind of conflict but I have no idea how to fix it.

[Nascarken]

That is what happens when you do not use one feed line for uhf&one for vh f
With an A/B switcher.

[JoeAZ]

Thanks for the response, Tim.

Each antenna is on the same mast with separate lines coming into the house with separate pre-amps.

They are separate until they combine at a combiner to go into my distribution amp
Hope this is what you are asking

You are correct in your assessment that there is a cancellation effect
going on. You need to keep the two antennas separate all the way
to each tv. You can accomplish that by either using an A/B switch
or a separate tuner at each tv. You then need to readjust each antenna
because that cancellation could have caused mis-aiming.

[Nascarken]

You are correct in your assessment that there is a cancellation effect
going on. You need to keep the two antennas separate all the way
to each tv. You can accomplish that by either using an A/B switch
or a separate tuner at each tv. You then need to readjust each antenna
because that cancellation could have caused mis-aiming.

We'll if IT'S A hi gain ANTENNA like the seller's LAB antennas Direct 91at
Is a hi gain ANTENNA manufactures say that DISTRIBUTION AMP
Can all so can cause the same problem they fight one other.

[blackstone]

Nascarken, unless I misunderstand you, I have separate feeds up to the distribution amp where they are combined.

This is how I have been doing it for almost a couple years and just now experiencing it.

Joe AZ, also, why is this just now manifesting?

Is it because of the new Channel Master?

When the Clearstream 5 from Antennas Direct was hooked up with the DB 8 E, it wasn't a problem.

[JoeAZ]

Nascarken, unless I misunderstand you, I have separate feeds up to the distribution amp where they are combined.

This is how I have been doing it for almost a couple years and just now experiencing it.

Joe AZ, also, why is this just now manifesting?

Is it because of the new Channel Master?

When the Clearstream 5 from Antennas Direct was hooked up with the DB 8 E, it wasn't a problem.

Yes, more than likely. The Channel Master and Clearstream 5 are very
different antennas. How they interact with your DB8-E are also very
different when combined.

[Nascarken]

Yes, more than likely. The Channel Master and Clearstream 5 are very
different antennas. How they interact with your DB8-E are also very
different when combined.

Both antennas are hi gain ANTENNA 's

[blackstone]

Is there a plain old VHF antenna that won't cause this problem?
I don't think I want to monkey around with AB switches on every TV

[blackstone]

And to complicate things,(for me at least), the bedroom TV gets some of the stations I don't get on the living room TV.

They are both cheap Element tvs.

[bobsgarage]

Is there a plain old VHF antenna that won't cause this problem?
I don't think I want to monkey around with AB switches on every TV

Hi, I've been reading your thread with some interest. I am by no means an expert. But the one thing I have learned in the past few years is combining antennas is usually unsuccessful. Combining a UHF antenna with a VHF antenna usually works well if you use a UVSJ combiner. Or a UHF / VHF combining amp like the RCA PREAMP 1R

Combining dissimilar antennas of the same band almost never works. Especially if they are pointing in different directions. in fact that's a double whammy.

Pointing two duplicate antennas in the same direction does work however. I had to prove it to myself and I can tell you that's the only way it seems to work.

Unfortunately, many people just don't know that that's how it is. I wouldn't say I learned the hard way because I ended up with two excellent arrays. I just can't combine them. Even when I do combine them I get most of my strong stations but I will lose the weaker ones. For example if I do a scan with the antennas combined, I will get about 80 stations. If I separate the antennas I will get about 97 stations a lot of them off the back side of the highly directional antennas.

BTW, instead of an A/B switch I use two different tuners and switch the inputs on the TV. I have my inputs labeled "Chicago" and "Milwaukee"

[bobsgarage]

Is there a plain old VHF antenna that won't cause this problem?
I don't think I want to monkey around with AB switches on every TV

a VHF only antenna? I highly recommend this Stellar labs 30 - 2476. It's an extremely well performing antenna and it's relatively inexpensive. As far as I know only one supplier sells it. I have two of them and I'm very satisfied with the durability, ease of assembly and performance.

https://www.newark.com/stellar-labs/30-2476/deep-fringe-directional-antenna/dp/71Y5462?MER=bn_level5_4NP_LastViewed_3

That Channel Master 5020 should be doing just fine with VHF. That's a very big antenna and has a large elements. Much larger elements than the Stellar labs VHF antenna. Which tells me the 5020 is VHF low too.

[blackstone]

Thanks, Bob, for your input.

I'm a techno-dunce and don't understand this stuff very much.

Do you have an example of a product that is a tuner so I could learn about them?

If I understand, my Channel Master and my DB 8 E are dissimilar antennas.

If I combine them with the right pre-amp I may have success?

Right now, my UHF antenna is powered with an Antennas Direct PA 18 UHF/VHF pre amp kit.
I'd had thought of connecting both antennas to it but didn't have the cables on hand when I hooked the antennas up

[blackstone]

I thought I liked the CM 5020 because I'm getting the stations I lost.
But with it messing up the other UHF stations I was looking at othjer solutions

[Tim]

Here's is a question for you: Are you using the CM5020 just for receiving VHF channels and the DB8E just for receiving UHF channels? If so, then you could combine them using a UVSJ combiner. If not, then you might could use a custom combiner designed for your specific channels. It all depends on which specific channels you want to receive on each antenna.

There is an eBay seller jan_jenca in Slovakia who custom makes the combiners at reasonable prices. I have ordered from him and was very pleased with the product. He also has a web site. http://www.antenne-komponenty.eu/english/main/product/zlucovace.html

[blackstone]

Thanks, Tim.

My intention was to use these antennas that way.

I was told that my DB 8E was only a UHF antenna.
At the time, I had an old CM for VHF.
High winds did some damage to that old antenna which led me to the Clear Stream 5.

That didn't produce satisfactory results. so I returned it in the 90 day window and got the 5020.
Subsequently I have learned some of the problems I had with the Clear Stream may have been installer error or ignorance.

Is a UVSJ combiner something that looks like a splitter but not a splitter?
If so I have one, maybe, that I have been using

[Nascarken]

Nascarken, unless I misunderstand you, I have separate feeds up to the distribution amp where they are combined.

This is how I have been doing it for almost a couple years and just now experiencing it.

Joe AZ, also, why is this just now manifesting?

Is it because of the new Channel Master?

When the Clearstream 5 from Antennas Direct was hooked up with the DB 8 E, it wasn't a problem.

The antenna Direct antennas are all hi gain!!
ANTENNAs it does not matter where you put the distribution AMP
And that is what the ANTENNA manufactures say,I like when installing antenna
equipment and do not do the home work in the first place hello Rabbit ears
I have an OTHER Johansson amp kit would you be willing too tack it it's the
vhf/uhf and do testing on it and tell me what you think about them.
and I have like 15 left of them?? no more antenna installing for me my M,S
Has got the best of me,but hi gain ANTENNAs read about hi gain ANTENNAs and
what the antenna manufactures say.about distribution amp's.

[blackstone]

Thanks for the info, Nascarken.

I'll see if I can find that info to see what I can learn

[bobsgarage]

Thanks, Bob, for your input.

I'm a techno-dunce and don't understand this stuff very much.

Do you have an example of a product that is a tuner so I could learn about them?

If I understand, my Channel Master and my DB 8 E are dissimilar antennas.

If I combine them with the right pre-amp I may have success?

Right now, my UHF antenna is powered with an Antennas Direct PA 18 UHF/VHF pre amp kit.
I'd had thought of connecting both antennas to it but didn't have the cables on hand when I hooked the antennas up

Good morning Blackstone.

So, you asked about tuners. The tuner is merely a box that your RF cable will go into and has an output of RF or HDMI or others like the red yellow and white RCA connections that would go to your TV. During the digital transition of 2009 the government was giving out coupons for the digital converter boxes for free.

Those were very basic, they were called converters and allowed people with non digital, old tube type TVs and inputs to be able to receive digital television. Now, you can buy a "tuner box", that will record your shows for you. TiVo, HomeRun, Channel Master, Homeworxs and others. Most modern television sets are digital ready and don't need any type of box, you can just screw the coax cable directly into the TV and the TV receives digital perfectly.

In the case of my new flat screen HDMI 4K TV there are no RF connections! I have to use a tuner with a HDMI outputs. Actually, I have two tuners but that's another story for another day.

I may not have made myself clear but those two antennas are completely different and will not combine without failure. Actually, in the case of the CM 5020 it is a UHF VHF combination antenna and is a standalone unit. You should try to just use it all by itself. Do not attempt to combine any antennas with it because it has everything you need. as a matter of fact if that antenna doesn't pick up your signals you have some serious work to do.

If you absolutely have to combines the two antennas then you need to do it with a pre-amplifier that accepts separate UHF / VHF inputs. but, before warrant it will block DHL from one antenna and the UHF from another so choose wisely. What a waste that would be to block the UHF from that 5020. since the DB8E is UHF only you would put that into the UHF input and screw the 5020 into the VHF input.

I was where you are at 3 years ago. So, it's still fresh in my mind, I received a lot of good advice here and I'm on some of the other forums. I'd like to say I've made some good friends here. I ignored some of the advice just to see for myself. I know it's irritating to those who are giving advice when somebody doesn't follow but I wanted to learn. In your case if you like to experiment have fun with it.

Since you have two completely different antennas (dissimilar), and I mean as different as you can get, you are better off running separate outputs to each TV if you have two TVs. You can always pre-amp your signal and split the signal to each TV. In other words since you already have two antennas, route the 5020 signal to the TV that needs UHF/VHF. Route the DB8E signal to a TV where you only care about UHF.

Or, if you want UHF and VHF from the other antenna you can get the Stellar labs VHF antenna and combine them with a UVSJ.

I like to mess around I took a break from it for a while and now I'm back on it.

[blackstone]

Bob, thanks for all that info.

I am grateful for TvFool and all the kind, patient people that offer help to dunderheads like me.

I try to follow advice. Some, I'm not sure I understand.

I have tried running one or the other antennas.
I will try again after posting this and report back.

Do you know of a specific preamp that would do this?

do it with a pre-amplifier that accepts separate UHF / VHF inputs. but, before warrant it will block DHL from one antenna and the UHF from another so choose wisely.

This seems like a reasonable way to try since I can't get as many UHF stations with the 5020

[blackstone]

Here are the results of disconnecting each antenna.

With only the DB 8E only connected, I get the following.
(Virtual Channels) (RF Channels) (Call sign)
2 25 KDKA
4 51 WTAE
11 48 WPXI
16 38 ION
6 34 WJAC

With only the channel master, I get no UHF stations.

9 9 WTOV
13 13 WQED
19 11 WPCW

Together, they wipe out 4,6,11 and 13

53 WPGH has vanished again
I did a scan after each change

[Nascarken]

Good morning Blackstone.

So, you asked about tuners. The tuner is merely a box that your RF cable will go into and has an output of RF or HDMI or others like the red yellow and white RCA connections that would go to your TV. During the digital transition of 2009 the government was giving out coupons for the digital converter boxes for free.

Those were very basic, they were called converters and allowed people with non digital, old tube type TVs and inputs to be able to receive digital television. Now, you can buy a "tuner box", that will record your shows for you. TiVo, HomeRun, Channel Master, Homeworxs and others. Most modern television sets are digital ready and don't need any type of box, you can just screw the coax cable directly into the TV and the TV receives digital perfectly.

In the case of my new flat screen HDMI 4K TV there are no RF connections! I have to use a tuner with a HDMI outputs. Actually, I have two tuners but that's another story for another day.

I may not have made myself clear but those two antennas are completely different and will not combine without failure. Actually, in the case of the CM 5020 it is a UHF VHF combination antenna and is a standalone unit. You should try to just use it all by itself. Do not attempt to combine any antennas with it because it has everything you need. as a matter of fact if that antenna doesn't pick up your signals you have some serious work to do.

If you absolutely have to combines the two antennas then you need to do it with a pre-amplifier that accepts separate UHF / VHF inputs. but, before warrant it will block DHL from one antenna and the UHF from another so choose wisely. What a waste that would be to block the UHF from that 5020. since the DB8E is UHF only you would put that into the UHF input and screw the 5020 into the VHF input.

I was where you are at 3 years ago. So, it's still fresh in my mind, I received a lot of good advice here and I'm on some of the other forums. I'd like to say I've made some good friends here. I ignored some of the advice just to see for myself. I know it's irritating to those who are giving advice when somebody doesn't follow but I wanted to learn. In your case if you like to experiment have fun with it.

Since you have two completely different antennas (dissimilar), and I mean as different as you can get, you are better off running separate outputs to each TV if you have two TVs. You can always pre-amp your signal and split the signal to each TV. In other words since you already have two antennas, route the 5020 signal to the TV that needs UHF/VHF. Route the DB8E signal to a TV where you only care about UHF.

Or, if you want UHF and VHF from the other antenna you can get the Stellar labs VHF antenna and combine them with a UVSJ.

I like to mess around I took a break from it for a while and now I'm back on it.

ok so if you want too do 2antennas one uhf and a seller's LAB
Hi gain vh f ANTENNA and if you want a shure thing for it to Receive well
And with no playing around I can get you a Johansson amp kit that is uhf/vh f
is35:dbg& the uhf 45:dbg,and you can adjust your db g on both sides and if
You use the seller's LAB hi gain ANTENNA With an ANTENNA Direct 91xg.
The space between the two of them is 4ft feet line's 52inches long in a T shape
To the amp and out to the tv set and the uhf 12inches.To the amp

[Tim]

Thanks, Tim.

Is a UVSJ combiner something that looks like a splitter but not a splitter?
If so I have one, maybe, that I have been using

A UVSJ physically looks live a splitter but works very differently. It has an input marked UHF, another input marked VHF and a Line output. I would not count on it being a UVSJ unless it is specifically marked as such.

The UVSJ has a very specific function and is used when you want to combine UHF signals from one antenna with VHF signals from another antenna.

A UHF antenna will receive some VHF signal. The UVSJ filters out the VHF component from the UHF antenna.

A VHF antenna will receive some UHF signal. The UVSJ filters out the UHF component from the VHF antenna.

Since you have signals being received on two antennas, the signals may arrive at each antenna at a slightly different time. When combined together they may offset each other and lessen the total amount of signal making it weaker. Using the UVSJ, when it combines the signals from the two antennas, there are no competing signals that will mix with each other and cause signal degradation.

[Tim]

By the way, UVSJ combiners are getting a bit hard to find these days. Tower Guy posted a link a couple of weeks ago for a source:
https://www.goldmine-elec-products.com/prodinfo.asp?number=G21474
I ordered a couple just to have on hand.

After rereading this thread from start to finish, this is what I gather about Blackstone's situation:

He has a DB8E pointed 210 degrees to receive UHF stations only. It has a preamp.

He has a CM5020 pointed 220 degrees to receive VHF stations only. It has a preamp.

He has a separate feed from each antenna going to a Channelplus combiner/splitter.

The output of the combiner/splitter goes to a Channelmaster amp and out to the TV sets.

Blackstone, can you confirm that is how you have your system set up? If not, can you describe further?

[blackstone]

Tim, you have it almost totally correct.
The only thing different is that both antennas are aimed at, essentially, the same direction.
The DB 8E is, roughly 210-215 and the CM is, roughly, 220-225.

It may not be germane but each line has it's own preamp

[Tim]

Tim, you have it almost totally correct.
The only thing different is that both antennas are aimed at, essentially, the same direction.
The DB 8E is, roughly 210-215 and the CM is, roughly, 220-225.

It may not be germane but each line has it's own preamp

Are the preamps mounted at the antennas?

Approximately how much feedline from the antenna to the preamp?

Approximately how much feedline from the preamp to the splitter/combiner?

Approximately how much feedline from the splitter/combiner to the distribution amp?

[blackstone]

One preamp is at the antenna for the DB 8E and there is approx. 3' from the antenna to the combiner.
The other is inside for the CM.
There is a 50' cable to the preamp and 3' to the combiner.

I think there is a 3' cable from the combiner to the distribution amp

[blackstone]

If anyone needs a UVSJ combiner, I had to buy 5 from the link Tim provided.
(They have a $10 minimum)

I would send them for postage

[Tim]

One preamp is at the antenna for the DB 8E and there is approx. 3' from the antenna to the combiner.
The other is inside for the CM.
There is a 50' cable to the preamp and 3' to the combiner.

I think there is a 3' cable from the combiner to the distribution amp

OK, that is giving me a clearer picture of your system. Take a look at this diagram and let me know anything that needs to change.

How long is the cable run from the distribution amp to each of your TVs?

Also, are you using power inserters to power your preamps? Or are they powered directly at the preamp?

[blackstone]

That looks like it

Thanks, Tim

[Tim]

How long is the cable run from the distribution amp to each of your TVs?

Also, are you using power inserters to power your preamps? Or are they powered directly at the preamp?

[blackstone]

Not 100% sure about the living room; maybe 20-25' for each.
The living room is using old Direct tv cabling
The bedroom was put in when my mom was still alive so she could watch tv in bed

[Tim]

OK, good, now tell me how the pre-amps are powered. Are you using power inserters?

[blackstone]

I don't know what power inserters are.

If it helps, the one on the DB 8E is an Antennas Direct Pa 18 preamp and the CM is a Winegard LNA 100

[Tim]

OK, one last question, do you know the model of distribution amp?

[blackstone]

Channel Master 3414

[Tim]

OK, great, thanks for answering all the questions. I think the best thing to do at this point is to obtain a UVSJ and rewire your system as I have shown on the bottom of the attached drawing. It will be real simple to do. You will be putting in the UVSJ where your combiner/splitter is currently located and replacing your distribution amp with the combiner/splitter (you can always put the distribution amp back in if you need to). You already have plenty of amplification with the preamps and the distribution amp might be overkill. I think the UVSJ has a good chance of resolving your problem.

[blackstone]

Thanks for all your patient help, Tim.

Although there are 4 TVs, only 2 regularly watch OTA.
My son watches the local news on a 3rd but that's all.

I have 5 UVSJs ordered so will need to wait until they get here.

Could I replace the 3414 with something like this; a 4 outlet non powered splitter so all TVs had antenna access?
https://smile.amazon.com/5-2300-Coaxial-Antenna-Splitter-Satellite/dp/B07FDQR7F4/ref=sr_1_4?keywords=coax+splitter+4+port&qid=1555286090&s=automotive&sr=1-4-catcorr

I really, really appreciate your help as well as everyone else.

Will check back after I get the UVSJ

[Tim]

Yes, the 4 port splitter would work fine.

[blackstone]

Thank you, again

[rabbit73]

The LNA200 uses a power inserter, but the LNA100 does not use a power inserter. The USB power for the LNA100 goes directly into a connector on the amp housing.
http://www.winegard.com/help/images/8/8a/2452286.pdf

Some UVSJs pass power on the UHF side and some pass power on the VHF side. The Radio Shack and Antennas Direct UVSJs pass power on the UHF side. My guess is that the ASKA only passes power on the VHF side.

The location of the power inserter for the PA18 is critical. It might be necessary to use the ASKA UVSJ after the power inserter for the PA18.

https://www.antennasdirect.com/cmss_files/attachmentlibrary/pdf/PA18_QS_FINAL_20130301.pdf

I don't know what power inserters are.

If it helps, the one on the DB 8E is an Antennas Direct Pa 18 preamp and the CM is a Winegard LNA 100A power inserter is a device that allows you to put the preamp close to the antenna and the power supply inside out of the weather. The coax that carries the signal down from the preamp also carries the DC power up to the preamp.

https://forum.tvfool.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=3378&d=1555291096

http://i.imgur.com/uVHwqcw.jpg

[blackstone]

Thanks for that, Rabbit73.

I believe Tim's diagram shows the UVSJ after the power inserters for both leads.

[Tim]

Thanks for all your patient help, Tim.

Although there are 4 TVs, only 2 regularly watch OTA.
My son watches the local news on a 3rd but that's all.

I have 5 UVSJs ordered so will need to wait until they get here.

Could I replace the 3414 with something like this; a 4 outlet non powered splitter so all TVs had antenna access?
https://smile.amazon.com/5-2300-Coaxial-Antenna-Splitter-Satellite/dp/B07FDQR7F4/ref=sr_1_4?keywords=coax+splitter+4+port&qid=1555286090&s=automotive&sr=1-4-catcorr

I really, really appreciate your help as well as everyone else.

Will check back after I get the UVSJ

I have revised the diagram to show the 4 port splitter.

[blackstone]

Thank you, Tim.

Looking forward to receiving the parts and testing this

[blackstone]

One last question, please?
(Until the next last question)

Rabbit73's post just made me wonder something.

I have an Antennas Direct Combiner. Also located my second PA 18 preamp.

Would the Antennas Direct combiner work and not need the UVSJ?
I would put the Pa 18 pre amp on my VHF and eliminate the Winegard.

[bobsgarage]

Thanks for all your patient help, Tim.

Although there are 4 TVs, only 2 regularly watch OTA.
My son watches the local news on a 3rd but that's all.

I have 5 UVSJs ordered so will need to wait until they get here.

Could I replace the 3414 with something like this; a 4 outlet non powered splitter so all TVs had antenna access?
https://smile.amazon.com/5-2300-Coaxial-Antenna-Splitter-Satellite/dp/B07FDQR7F4/ref=sr_1_4?keywords=coax+splitter+4+port&qid=1555286090&s=automotive&sr=1-4-catcorr

I really, really appreciate your help as well as everyone else.

Will check back after I get the UVSJ

Yes, please get back to us after you've done that work. for me I'm interested to see how pre-amping the signals before combining them works. If it doesn't work try combining with the UVSJ and then pre-amping them after.

If the name of the Antennas Direct component is a combiner it is probably not a UVSJ so do not use it unless it says it to UVSJ

[blackstone]

Thanks for the fast reply, Bob.

Here's what it says on the site.

It says diplexer on the picture
This all-weather antenna combiner merges the signals from a UHF antenna with a VHF antenna on the same cable. Coaxial cable sold separately.
•DC Power Pass on UHF Port
•Insertion loss: VHF-IN/OUT 54-88 NHz 0.5dB; 174-216 Mhz 0.5dB; UHF-IN/OUT 470-698 0.8dB
•Return loss: IN/OUT 54-88 Mhz 18db; 174-216 18dB; 470-698 MHz 12dB
•Return loss: VHF 54-88 18dB; 174-216 18dB
•Return loss: UHF 470-698 12dB
•Isolation: VHF-UHF 54-88 30dB; 174-216dB, 470-698 30dB

Helpful Tips:

The DC power pass on the UHF port allows for UHF-only amplification in special circumstances. For example, when UHF signals require amplification, but the VHF signals may not. Or your household has an existing amplified antenna, but also needs to add a separate VHF antenna that doesn't need amplification.

[rabbit73]

Thanks for that, Rabbit73.

I believe Tim's diagram shows the UVSJ after the power inserters for both leads.Tim's revised diagram shows the UVSJ after the preamps, but it does not show the power inserter for the PA18 or how the LNA100 gets power.

[blackstone]

I see that, now.

I wouldn't have thought of it but would have put the UVSJ on the TV side of the inserters since that is where they combine

[Nascarken]

A UVSJ physically looks live a splitter but works very differently. It has an input marked UHF, another input marked VHF and a Line output. I would not count on it being a UVSJ unless it is specifically marked as such.

The UVSJ has a very specific function and is used when you want to combine UHF signals from one antenna with VHF signals from another antenna.

A UHF antenna will receive some VHF signal. The UVSJ filters out the VHF component from the UHF antenna.

A VHF antenna will receive some UHF signal. The UVSJ filters out the UHF component from the VHF antenna.

Since you have signals being received on two antennas, the signals may arrive at each antenna at a slightly different time. When combined together they may offset each other and lessen the total amount of signal making it weaker. Using the UVSJ, when it combines the signals from the two antennas, there are no competing signals that will mix with each other and cause signal degradation.

Yes that's true if u use an amp like a channel master 7778or the 7777 amp
The feed line frum the ANTENNA to the amp if 52 inches long will increase the vh F RECIVE. ??

[Tim]

Tim's revised diagram shows the UVSJ after the preamps, but it does not show the power inserter for the PA18 or how the LNA100 gets power.
I am not clear as to how Blackstone is powering his preamps. If he can explain that to us, I will add it to the diagram.

[blackstone]

Referring to your original drawing, Tim.
The UHF antenna has the Antennas Direct PA 18 preamp on the mast.
The power inserter is before the splitter/combiner inside.

The VHF antenna is using the Winegard preamp.
Using Rabbit73's explanation above for the LNA 100, it is also on the antenna side of the splitter/combiner.

Hope this is the info you were looking for.

Thanks.

PS: First opportunity, I will replace the Winegard with my second PA 18 preamp

[Tim]

One last question, please?
(Until the next last question)

Rabbit73's post just made me wonder something.

I have an Antennas Direct Combiner. Also located my second PA 18 preamp.

Would the Antennas Direct combiner work and not need the UVSJ?
I would put the Pa 18 pre amp on my VHF and eliminate the Winegard.

In an earlier post you stated,

"With only the channel master, I get no UHF stations.

9 9 WTOV
13 13 WQED
19 11 WPCW"

Looks like you were picking up your high VHF stations with no problem using the LNA100 amp. If it's working don't change it.

Don't confuse UVSJ and combiner. They perform completely different functions. The UVSJ will hopefully isolate your two antennas from each other and eliminate the signal degradation you are experiencing. Using a combiner to combine two antennas usually does not work well.

[Tim]

Blackstone, in an earlier post you said you had the PA18 mounted on the mast of the DB8E and then 3 ft of cable connecting the preamp to the splitter/combiner. You also said the splitter/combiner was in your basement. Can you confirm that the 3 ft of cable is correct? That just doesn't seem right to me.

[blackstone]

Sorry for any confusion.
The PA 18 is connected to the DB 8E with a 3' cable.
Then 50' cable is connected to the PA 18 to the power inserter with 3' cable to the combiner

Thanks for clarifying the UVSJ.

As you can tell, I understand as much about electronics as I do rocket surgery

[Tim]

Sorry for any confusion.
The PA 18 is connected to the DB 8E with a 3' cable.
Then 50' cable is connected to the PA 18 to the power inserter with 3' cable to the combiner

Thanks for clarifying the UVSJ.

As you can tell, I understand as much about electronics as I do rocket surgery

No worries. Just trying to get a full picture of what you have since I can't lay eyes on it.

Another question...are both of your antennas mounted on the same mast? Or are they located some distance apart?

[blackstone]

Yes.
Sort of.
The UHF is mounted on a piece of conduit attached to and old wooden pole that, previously, had a dusk to dawn light.
The center of the antenna is approx. 12-13' above ground.

The VHF is on a separate mast attached to the same wooden pole and Approx. 18' above ground

[blackstone]

Would a picture help?

[bobsgarage]

Yes.
Sort of.
The UHF is mounted on a piece of conduit attached to and old wooden pole that, previously, had a dusk to dawn light.
The center of the antenna is approx. 12-13' above ground.

The VHF is on a separate mast attached to the same wooden pole and Approx. 18' above ground

Just for your information, the UHF should always be above the VHF. I could go into it but it has to do with signals and signal strength and how the signal comes in etc... But as a general rule put the UHF above the VHF.

Unless for some reason there is a tree branch right in front of the upper part of the antenna as UHF as more sensitive to trees and leaves Etc....

[blackstone]

Thanks for that info, Bob.
Antenna Direct mentioned that a while back, too.

I'd hate to change them around because I have the DB 8E zoned in and not sure how long it would take to get it back.

Since it seems that I'm getting good signal now, is it important?
Would that have anything to do with my current situation?

[ADTech]

the UHF should always be above the VHF.I wouldn't say that... but i would say this instead...But as a general rule put the UHF above the VHF.
Normal convention is for the UHF to be above the VHF, but it's not a rule carved in stone as there are always exceptions. I tell folks to do whichever works best. Once that is found, leave it alone. ;)

[blackstone]

Thanks, ADTech.

As I said above, it seems the signal is good but getting mixed up.

Hopefully, the UVSJ will sort those things out.

[Tim]

Would a picture help?

I think we are good now. I will modify the diagram of your system tomorrow when I get a chance.

[blackstone]

Appreciate all the effort

[Nascarken]

Yes that's true that is why you should stack 91xg side by side.

[blackstone]

Thanks, nascarken.

Is "91xg" an antenna?

[bobsgarage]

Thanks for that info, Bob.
Antenna Direct mentioned that a while back, too.

I'd hate to change them around because I have the DB 8E zoned in and not sure how long it would take to get it back.

Since it seems that I'm getting good signal now, is it important?
Would that have anything to do with my current situation?

AD Tech is correct, it's not a steadfast rule, merely a strong suggestion to put the UHF antenna above the VHF antenna. So, for now, you can just try the antenna position the way it is and if you like what you have, keep it that way.

I do have a suggestion on keeping the same aim on your DB8e. You can take a 3 or 4 or better yet a 5-foot foot level and scribe a line with a Sharpie on your mast. Make a corresponding alignment mark on your clamp.

Loosen the clamps, slide the antenna down and line up your marks again. That should keep the aim exactly as how you had it. As you've already figured out you will have to remove the other antenna to do this.

Just an idea.

[bobsgarage]

Thanks, nascarken.

Is "91xg" an antenna?

91 XG is an excellent highly directional antenna made by Antennas Direct. One of the highest gain UHF only antennas in the industry.

If you ever decide to order one, call Antennas Direct, and have them match the Amazon price including the shipping. They will do it, and you will get to spend some quality time with some excellent customer service people and see how it's really done!

It will take longer to get it from them because they will ship it the cheapest way possible. If you're in a hurry then Amazon is the best way, you can get it in one day or even the same day if you're close to a shipping center.

I ordered mine and waited. Yes, it took a little longer but I was happy that Antenna Direct got the full profit on the reduced-price. I call it loyalty.

It's a good company.!

[Nascarken]

AD Tech is correct, it's not a steadfast rule, merely a strong suggestion to put the UHF antenna above the VHF antenna. So, for now, you can just try the antenna position the way it is and if you like what you have, keep it that way.

I do have a suggestion on keeping the same aim on your DB8e. You can take a 3 or 4 or better yet a 5-foot foot level and scribe a line with a Sharpie on your mast. Make a corresponding alignment mark on your clamp.

Loosen the clamps, slide the antenna down and line up your marks again. That should keep the aim exactly as how you had it. As you've already figured out you will have to remove the other antenna to do this.

Just an idea.

I suggest you try too put the db8 on a 35degree agl it will in prove your receive the same way you put a satilight dish on an agl

[Nascarken]

91 XG is an excellent highly directional antenna made by Antennas Direct. One of the highest gain UHF only antennas in the industry.

If you ever decide to order one call Antennas Direct, and have them match the Amazon price including the shipping. They will do it, and you will get to spend some time with some excellent customer service people and see how it's really done!

It will take longer to get it from them because they will ship it the cheapest way possible. If you're in a hurry then Amazon this the best way, you can get it in one day or even thesame day if you're close to a shipping center.

I ordered mine and waited.yes it took a little longer I was happy that Antenna Direct got the full profit on the reduced-price. I call it loyalty.

is one of the best ANTENNA for uhf RECEIVE range that I
Got out of it was 90miles away higt h of the antenna was 100ft hi with a channel master 7777AMP and look around for the best price.
And know I use an 8200u for its hi&low band vh F and at the beginning of the 8200u are 91x g

[blackstone]

I really appreciate that everyone is sticking with me on this.

Is there somewhere I can make a donation to offset the expenses of running the site or something?

I see that aligning my DB 8E again wouldn't be too hard but I would have to revamp my set up.
It may come down to that but I'll avoid it until all other options are tried.

As I mentioned above, each antenna is on a separate mast attached to a wooden pole.
The DB is on the south side of that pole and the CM is on the north side.
If I ever need to adjust the DB, I just need to loosen the clamps and it will pivot around an axis; the utility pole.
Because of the design of the CM, it needs to be higher than the pole the mast is attached to.

I'm getting a lot of stations right now with the separate antennas in the present configuration.
If the UVSJ does the job, I think I'm set.
Hopefully.

Regarding the 91XG, I hope I don't need to buy any more antennas.
I would gladly buy anything I could from Antennas Direct.

If they had a VHF antenna that worked for me, I would have gotten it from them.
The Clear Stream 5 didn't work for me.

I trust them.
They earned it the very first time I contacted them and they didn't try to sell me an antenna.

With all the internet charlatans out there, it was nice to find someone who was trustworthy.

Nascarken, I may try that down the road a little

[ADTech]

I suggest you try too put the db8 on a 35degree agl it will in prove your receive the same way you put a satilight dish on an agl No. Do NOT do this, it is very unlikely to help and would more likely cause a reduction of reception due to the signal now coming in below the vertical reception pattern.

The antenna should not be aimed at the sky. If there's any tilting to be done on a panel antenna, it would have to be done by adjusting the angle of the mast itself.

As a general starting point, unless you are staring point blank into a cliff or bluff, just put it on a vertical mast so it's aimed in a plane parallel to the earth. There may be times when an upward tilt might be useful, but they are best dealt with on an individual basis after actual consideration of the pros and cons.

[blackstone]

ADTech, I'm a believer in not monkeying with something that seems to be working.

I'm getting pretty much everything that's available to me.
Right now, I disconnect one antenna or the other

[Tim]

91 XG is an excellent highly directional antenna made by Antennas Direct. One of the highest gain UHF only antennas in the industry.



The 91XG is an excellent antenna and is what I use. However, looking at the specs the DB8E actually has a little more gain and a narrower beamwidth. It should be doing just as good or a bit better job than the 91XG would do for him.

[Tim]

OK, I think we now have a good idea of just how your antenna system is laid out. Here is the latest iteration.

When you get your UVSJ you can install it in place of the combiner/splitter you have but just leave your distribution amp in place and see what the results are.

Then leave the UVSJ in place and replace the distribution amp with your 4 port splitter and see what the results are.

Be sure and check your results on all 4 TV sets because there is some variation of tuners built into the TVs.

We are all waiting to hear your results.

[blackstone]

We are all waiting to hear your results.

None as anxious as me.
LOL.

Thanks for your help

[blackstone]

I have the DB 8E at the recommendation of Antennas Direct, nascarken.
I suppose they looked at my location and what stations I wanted to get.

It receives a wide range.
I get signals from Pittsburgh and a Johnstown station, which is, I think, 50 degrees off from the Pittsburgh stations.

It seems the reception issue is solved, for now.
If the UVSJ solves the conflict between the signals.

I appreciate all your input throughout this thread.

If I ever wanted to get another antenna, I would look at the 91xg.
But, at 69, I hope what I have outlasts me.

[rabbit73]

One last question, please?
(Until the next last question)

Rabbit73's post just made me wonder something.

I have an Antennas Direct Combiner. Also located my second PA 18 preamp.

Would the Antennas Direct combiner work and not need the UVSJ?
I would put the Pa 18 pre amp on my VHF and eliminate the Winegard.

If the name of the Antennas Direct component is a combiner it is probably not a UVSJ so do not use it unless it says it to UVSJ
Thanks for the fast reply, Bob.

Here's what it says on the site:
This all-weather antenna combiner merges the signals from a UHF antenna with a VHF antenna on the same cable. Coaxial cable sold separately.
•DC Power Pass on UHF Port
•Insertion loss: VHF-IN/OUT 54-88 NHz 0.5dB; 174-216 Mhz 0.5dB; UHF-IN/OUT 470-698 0.8dB
•Return loss: IN/OUT 54-88 Mhz 18db; 174-216 18dB; 470-698 MHz 12dB
•Return loss: VHF 54-88 18dB; 174-216 18dB
•Return loss: UHF 470-698 12dB
•Isolation: VHF-UHF 54-88 30dB; 174-216dB, 470-698 30dB

Helpful Tips:

The DC power pass on the UHF port allows for UHF-only amplification in special circumstances. For example, when UHF signals require amplification, but the VHF signals may not. Or your household has an existing amplified antenna, but also needs to add a separate VHF antenna that doesn't need amplification.

It says diplexer on the picture
That is a UVSJ (UHF/VHF Separator-Joiner), which is also called a diplexer or UHF/VHF combiner. You can use it after the power inserter for the UHF PA18 or after the two power inserters for two PA18s.

https://i.imgur.com/9AIJgp3.jpg

https://i.imgur.com/6ArtK0x.jpg

[blackstone]

Thanks for that, Rabbit 73.
As soon as I get some help this evening to drop the mast to retrieve mine, I'll try it out.

Won't have to wait for my UVSJs to get here.

If anyone has a need for one, I have 5 UVSJs coming.

I'll give them away

[rabbit73]

Don't give them all away, keep a few as spares.

Good luck.

[blackstone]

At least one.

They had a $10 minimum order and they were only $2.49

[Tim]

That is a UVSJ (UHF/VHF Separator-Joiner), which is also called a diplexer or UHF/VHF combiner. You can use it after the power inserter for the UHF PA18 or after the two power inserters for two PA18s.

https://i.imgur.com/9AIJgp3.jpg

https://i.imgur.com/6ArtK0x.jpg

So is the the inserter/combiner that Blackstone indicates he had in his antenna system???
-----
Edit: Never mind, I reread a few times and I understand now. He had the Antennas Direct version of a UVSJ on hand all along, just not installed in his system. Great! Hopefully he can install that and get things working properly.

[blackstone]

When I installed the CM, originally I planned to combine it with the DB but my cables were too short so it's just hanging on the mast.

Unless there is a good reason not to do it, I'm thinking of putting the second PA 18 preamp up to replace the Winegard while I have it on the ground.

[Tim]

When I installed the CM, originally I planned to combine it with the DB but my cables were too short so it's just hanging on the mast.

Unless there is a good reason not to do it, I'm thinking of putting the second PA 18 preamp up to replace the Winegard while I have it on the ground.

No reason not to do so. Just double check after you install the PA18 and make sure you are still getting all your VHF stations. If so, then install your Antennas Direct UVSJ combiner.

[blackstone]

Sounds good.
Thanks

[blackstone]

Preliminary results.

It appears we have success.

I am cautiously optimistic, anyhow.

Dropped my mast so I could retrieve my combiner, installed the other Pa 18 preamp on the VHF.
Put the combiner on the TV side of the power inserters.

Left the distribution amp connected.

Scanned 42 stations.
Several aren't watchable and shouldn't even show up due to distance and direction.
Have all my VHF and UHF stations that are available.

Once again, I really appreciate all the generous, patient help so many of you gave.
Thank you.

I'll follow up in a day or two to verify it stuck

[Tim]

Preliminary results.

It appears we have success.

I am cautiously optimistic, anyhow.

...

I'll follow up in a day or two to verify it stuck

Great! Once you get your 4 port splitter, you might want to try it in place of the distribution amp just to see what the results are and report back.

[blackstone]

I have it and will give it a try today.
I was so excited that everything worked that I stopped.

It may be my imagination, but several stations that came in when one or the other antennas was disconnected seem weak.
It shouldn't be related to installing the PA 18 preamp on the vhf because these are uhf stations.

It could be atmospheric, too

[Tim]

I have it and will give it a try today.

It may be my imagination, but several stations that came in when one or the other antennas was disconnected seem weak.


What do you mean by "seem weak"? Was the video pixelated? Or were you looking at some type of signal strength or signal quality test on a TV set?

[blackstone]

Couple stations took a while to load or show.
When I went to the channel menu those stations were "weak"

The signal strength is either "good", "normal" or "weak"

Right now, everything is watchable

[Tim]

Wow that's a lot of insert loss!!!

Insertion loss of 0.5 to 0.8 dB is negligible.

[bobsgarage]

Wow that's a lot of insert loss!!!
I would love to see ADTECK' b.nis card!!
Like antenna Direct marketing
said to ask for.

Nascarken, you need to stop trolling everybody's threads. You trolled my thread to the point that everybody complained and Admin had to eliminate your posts about not believing AD Tech is an employee of Antennas Direct. It's already been proven to you. I already told you I talked to Ben at Antennas Direct, and got a personal e-mail from AD Tech. (not "AD teck")

And, you called Rabbit a liar. You didn't believe the photo he posted from the newspaper article was actually AD Tech. It takes a lot to get under his skin and you did it! I never saw where you apologized to him.

I'm going to submit a complaint about your trolling. (Again)

Everybody's tired of hearing about your set up. Everybody has a different need for different antennas and preamps. Just because your's works great for your situation doesn't mean everybody needs a Johanssen amp and 2 "Winegrud" 8200U's 2 91XGs on a 150 foot Tower.

Get it? Not everybody needs your setup.!

Now, go away. Stop trolling.

[Tim]

BobsGarage,

If there are group members whose posts you don't want to see, you can click on their Username, click on User Lists, click on Add to Ignore List.

From then on you will see that they posted something, but you won't see what they posted. It cleans up the threads nicely.

[rabbit73]

Thank you, Bob, Tim, and jrgagne99.

[Tim]

Blackstone, now that you've had a few days to observe, how are things working out for you?

[blackstone]

Here's an update.

Installed the PA 18 preamp on the Channel Master. Already had one on the DB8E.
Used the combiner that I had on hand from Antennas Direct.
Connected to the CM distribution amp and got stations without the interference.
Tried without the distribution amp and lost many stations.
Re-connected the distribution amp.

I get every station available except WPGH 53.
Had a couple rainy days and that affected my reception.

Since I have now received my UVSJs, would there be any value in trying one of them in place of the Antenna Direct combiner?

I think I'm about as optimized as I can for my location unless there are other suggestions.

Thanks to everyone for all the generous, patient help.

TV Fool is a fantastic resource and this forum, with all the great people, is a true asset for techno-dunces like me.

If there is some way I can support this or contribute a little something to the ongoing upkeep, please let me know.

I still have some spare UVSJs if anyone needs some

[Tim]

Since I have now received my UVSJs, would there be any value in trying one of them in place of the Antenna Direct combiner?



It is so easy to change out that you could certainly try it. Most likely it will make no difference, but if it were me (being the curious type) I would certainly give it a try just to see what happens.

[rabbit73]

Here's an update.

Installed the PA 18 preamp on the Channel Master. Already had one on the DB8E.
Used the combiner that I had on hand from Antennas Direct.
Connected to the CM distribution amp and got stations without the interference.
Tried without the distribution amp and lost many stations.
Re-connected the distribution amp.

I get every station available except WPGH 53.Thank you for the update with your report of improved reception.

Your current TVFool report doesn't list WPGH because of database errors used to generate the report.

https://forum.tvfool.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=3388&d=1556203782

However, a report from rabbitears.info does list WPGH, and its list of channels should be more accurate. WPGH is listed as much weaker than your other channels.

https://forum.tvfool.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=3389&d=1556203813

Since I have now received my UVSJs, would there be any value in trying one of them in place of the Antenna Direct combiner?It should work about the same as the Antennas Direct UVSJ. If you are curious, maybe you should make a temporary test.

I think I'm about as optimized as I can for my location unless there are other suggestions.Yes, I agree.

WPGH is moving to channel 20 during Repack Phase 4, 6/22/2019 to 8/2/2019

https://www.rabbitears.info/market.php?request=station_search&callsign=WPGH

https://www.rabbitears.info/repackchannels.php?country=US&city=&state=&mktid=29&owner=&sort=&ph=&lss=&status=

https://www.fcc.gov/about-fcc/fcc-initiatives/incentive-auctions/transition-schedule

They might be running at reduced power because of antenna work.

Thanks to everyone for all the generous, patient help.

TV Fool is a fantastic resource and this forum, with all the great people, is a true asset for techno-dunces like me.

If there is some way I can support this or contribute a little something to the ongoing upkeep, please let me know.The fact that you thanked us and gave a report of improved reception by following our advice is sufficient; it's what keeps us going.

Enjoy your new setup.

Best regards,
rabbit

[blackstone]

The fact that you thanked us and gave a report of improved reception by following our advice is sufficient; it's what keeps us going.



Or I could continue to ask dumb questions for others that are too embarrassed.

:o

There are times that WPGH comes in, usually poorly.

Will the repack improve or diminish my chances at receiving WPGH?

[rabbit73]

There are times that WPGH comes in, usually poorly.

Will the repack improve or diminish my chances at receiving WPGH?
If it is running at reduced power now to work on the new channel 20 antenna, you should see some improvement. If it is not running at reduced power now, your reception will be about the same.

The channel 20 transmitter will be running at a little less horizontal power because it is on a lower channel which requires less power for the same coverage area. Coverage area is important to the companies that are paying for the ads.

https://www.rabbitears.info/market.php?request=station_search&callsign=WPGH

click on Technical Data

channel 43
1000 kW ERP horizontal polarization
55.6 mile contour / 9726 sq. mi. area / Est. Pop. 2,976,383

channel 20
800 kW ERP horizontal polarization + 343.2 kW ERP vertical polarization
57.2 mile contour / 10284.5 sq. mi. area / Est. Pop. 3,128,179

[blackstone]

Thanks, rabbit 73.
I don't understand the numbers you posted other than KW.

Just have to wait and see

[rabbit73]

Thanks, rabbit 73.
I don't understand the numbers you posted other than KW.

Just have to wait and see
Effective radiated power (ERP), synonymous with equivalent radiated power, is an IEEE standardized definition of directional radio frequency (RF) power, such as that emitted by a radio transmitter.

WPGH has a transmitter with an output of 45.6 kW
It also has an antenna with a gain of 13.41 dB that makes the output of the transmitter stronger
45.6 kW + 13.41 dB gain = 1000 kW ERP

and this is the WPGH coverage map for 55.6 mile contour / 9726 sq. mi. area / Est. Pop. 2,976,383

https://forum.tvfool.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=3390&d=1556231964

[blackstone]

Thanks for the explanation.
What does vertical polarization do?

[rabbit73]

Thanks for the explanation.
What does vertical polarization do?

The horizontal polarization of the transmitting antenna matches the horizontal polarization of your receiving antenna for the most effective reception.

Some vertical polarization has been added to the horizontal polarization of the newer antennas with the hope that it will make the reception of the new ATSC 3.0 signals more effective for mobile devices.

[blackstone]

I had a choice of a new thread or resurrect this old one.
Hope this is ok.

Thanks, again, for your indulgence.

I'll start off by saying I'm aware of repack and don't think any of my issues are related to that.

I have lost stations recently, both UHF and VHF.
Actually, I can't get any VHF stations at all.

My UHF antenna is an Antennas Direct DB8E and my VHF is a Channel Master Deep Fringe Masterpiece 100-Mile Range Outdoor Antenna

I replaced the splitter/amplifier with a new Antennas Direct.
I have used both , that one and the CM 3020(?).

Here is my TVFool report.
http://www.tvfool.com/?option=com_wrapper&Itemid=29&q=id%3d9038bb9e5afa9f

Here are the stations I have lost.

Call Letters RF Virtual
WQED 4 4
WTAE 27 4
WPCW 30 19
*WTOV 9 9
*WWCP 8 8

The first two I have been able to receive recently
The next two have been a while and the last one would be nice.

I have not adjusted the UHF antenna since I got it optimized but do adjust the CM to see if I can get anything with it.

Any help or suggestions is greatly appreciated

[Tim]

I have lost stations recently, both UHF and VHF.
Actually, I can't get any VHF stations at all.



Blackstone,

The signal reports at TV Fool are very much out of date. It would be very helpful if you could post a link to your RabbitEars report. You can generate one at this link: https://www.rabbitears.info/searchmap.php

Tell us a bit more about your antenna system.
Are you combining the two antennas with a UVSJ combiner before the preamp?
Which Antennas Direct preamp? The Juice or the PA18?
Are you using a rotator?
If fixed, which way is each antenna pointing?
What stations are you receiving with good results?
How are your connections waterproofed at the antenna and preamp?

[blackstone]

Thanks, Tim.

Here's the link from Rabbit Ears.

https://www.rabbitears.info/searchmap.php?request=result&study_id=154450

I am using a USVJ between the preamps and the splitter/amp.
I am using the PA18 pre amps

I have no waterproofing other that how the equipment came

I do not have a rotor.
I haven't touched the UHF antenna since I had it optimized about a year and a half ago.

It's somewhere around 210


The CM is easy to rotate.
It had been sitting at approx.215 for some time.

Presently, it's about 160 trying to pick up WWCP 8 which has ABC to replace the lost WTAE.

Here are my good stations:

Call Letters RF Virtual
KDKA 25 2
WJAC 35 6
WPX! 23 11
ION 38 16
MYTV 42 22
WPCB 28 40
WPGH 43 53

I'm thinking I have some kind of problem with the Channel Master.

I cannot pick up any VHF stations.
Granted there aren't that many.

[Tim]

Blackstone,

The RabbitEars link you provided pulls up Topeka, KS which is the default location for the signal search map.

Be sure to enter your address in the search box at the bottom left of the map, then click the 'Search' button.
Then click on the 'Move Pushpin to Center of Map View' button. You can then drag the pushpin to your exact location if needed.
Enter your antenna height above ground in the appropriate box.
Press the 'Go' button and wait for the result list to populate.
Then copy the shareable link from the top of the Result List and share here.

[Tim]

I have no waterproofing other that how the equipment came



I would certainly start checking your connections. Water intrusion into connections and coaxial cable will wreak havoc over time causing oxidation and corrosion. RG6 coaxial connectors should be weatherproofed by filling with dielectric grease such as STUF or wrapped with silicone fusing tape (or both.)

Were you able to receive WTAE when they were on real channel 51? Were you ever able to receive WTAE after they transitioned to real channel 27?

[rabbit73]

Blackstone,

The RabbitEars link you provided pulls up Topeka, KS which is the default location for the signal search map.

Be sure to enter your address in the search box at the bottom left of the map, then click the 'Search' button.
Then click on the 'Move Pushpin to Center of Map View' button. You can then drag the pushpin to your exact location if needed.
Enter your antenna height above ground in the appropriate box.
Press the 'Go' button and wait for the result list to populate.
Then copy the shareable link from the top of the Result List and share here.
Here is a current report for blackstone, unless he has moved:
https://www.rabbitears.info/searchmap.php?request=result&study_id=154710

http://forum.tvfool.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=3889&d=1601075940

I prefer to use coordinates for a rabbitears.info report. I use Google to give me the coordinates, enter them in the box, and press Go. That way, I don't have to mess with the pushpin.

You can enter both coordinates in the left box separated by a comma, or enter the lat in the left box and the long in the right box.

[blackstone]

Thanks, Rabbit.

Rabbit Ears is tricky
I did enter my address and even saw all my stations.

Sorry about that.


Were you able to receive WTAE when they were on real channel 51? Were you ever able to receive WTAE after they transitioned to real channel 27?

I was able to receive WTAE until a couple weeks ago.
It was never one of my better stations
Now it's very pixelated and is watchable very infrequently.

I'm an old fart so I need my son to climb for me.
He's off weekends but, unfortunately, I'm on 48 hour work/on call this and next weekend.

Like to get WTAE because that's where the best college football games are
:)

WTAE was problematic awhile ago when I started this original thread but pretty reliable until recently

[Tim]

Well, after seeing that RabbitEars report, I will just have to comment that I think it is remarkable that you are receiving the stations you are getting now. If any of your coax connections are a problem, hopefully replacing them will eliminate enough loss so you get your ABC affiliate again. Let us know what you find when you're able to get someone up to the antenna.

[blackstone]

My elevation is pretty high which may help.

A real good scan will give me 40 stations on the count.

That includes all the sub stations like 2.1, 2.2 &2.3 for example
Mostly it's the mid to upper 30s

Regarding my VHF, is there a possibility of a bad balun?
I don't know what they do

Also, since the Channel Master is both VHF and UHF, could it pick up some UHF stations?

[blackstone]

Here's what Antenna Direct has for my location:
They're a little more optimistic

Available Channels Call Sign Affiliate Virtual Channel DTV Channel Real Channel Band True Heading Distance
MyTV22-
MyN
22.1 43 UHF 216.33° 36.4 mi
WPGH
fox
FOX
53.1 43 UHF 216.33° 36.4 mi
Antenna
antenna tv
Antenna TV
53.2 43 UHF 216.33° 36.4 mi
Charge!
Charge!
53.3 43 UHF 216.33° 36.4 mi
MyTV
MyN
22.1 42 UHF 216.33° 36.4 mi
Stadium
Stadium
22.2 42 UHF 216.33° 36.4 mi
Comet
comet tv
Comet TV
22.3 42 UHF 216.33° 36.4 mi
TBD
TBD
22.4 42 UHF 216.33° 36.4 mi
WPCW-DT
cw
CW
19.1 30 UHF 217.19° 36.92 mi
H&I
Heroes & Icons
19.2 30 UHF 217.19° 36.92 mi
GRIT
grit
Grit
19.3 30 UHF 217.19° 36.92 mi
Light
Light TV
19.4 30 UHF 217.19° 36.92 mi
Circle
Circle
19.5 30 UHF 217.19° 36.92 mi
KDKA-HD
cbs
CBS
02.1 25 UHF 217.20° 36.93 mi
StartTV
Start TV
02.2 25 UHF 217.20° 36.93 mi
DABL
Dabl
02.3 25 UHF 217.20° 36.93 mi
WPCB
Cornerstone
40.1 28 UHF 195.14° 37.75 mi
CourtTV
Court TV
40.2 28 UHF 195.14° 37.75 mi
Bounce
bounce tv
Bounce TV
40.3 28 UHF 195.14° 37.75 mi
Quest
Quest
40.4 28 UHF 195.14° 37.75 mi
40.5 28 UHF 195.14° 37.75 mi
PFFC
Religious
40.6 28 UHF 195.14° 37.75 mi
this tv
This TV
69.1 30 UHF 210.72° 38.07 mi
gettv
GetTV
69.2 30 UHF 210.72° 38.07 mi
retro tv
Retro TV
69.3 30 UHF 210.72° 38.07 mi
NewsNet
69.4 30 UHF 210.72° 38.07 mi
justice network
Justice Network
69.5 30 UHF 210.72° 38.07 mi
Heartland
69.6 30 UHF 210.72° 38.07 mi
ION
ion
ION
16.1 38 UHF 210.72° 38.07 mi
qubo
qubo
Qubo
16.2 38 UHF 210.72° 38.07 mi
IONPlus
ION Plus
16.3 38 UHF 210.72° 38.07 mi
Shop
infomercials
Infomercials
16.4 38 UHF 210.72° 38.07 mi
HSN
hsn
HSN
16.5 38 UHF 210.72° 38.07 mi
QVC
qvc
QVC
16.6 38 UHF 210.72° 38.07 mi
WQED-HD
pbs
PBS
13.1 4 VHF 210.73° 38.07 mi
CREATE
create
Create
13.2 4 VHF 210.73° 38.07 mi
WORLD
world channel
World Channel
13.3 4 VHF 210.73° 38.07 mi
SHOW
PBS Fundraisers
13.4 4 VHF 210.73° 38.07 mi
KIDS
PBS Kids 24/7
13.5 4 VHF 210.73° 38.07 mi
HSN
hsn
HSN
61.1 26 UHF 210.72° 38.07 mi
MOVIES
Movies!
61.2 26 UHF 210.72° 38.07 mi
BUZZR
BUZZR
61.3 26 UHF 210.72° 38.07 mi
SBN
SonLife
61.4 26 UHF 210.72° 38.07 mi
CTM
Court TV Mystery
61.5 26 UHF 210.72° 38.07 mi
Decades
61.6 26 UHF 210.72° 38.07 mi
JTV
Jewelry TV
39.1 19 UHF 210.72° 38.07 mi
CRTV
infomercials
Infomercials
39.2 19 UHF 210.72° 38.07 mi
SHOP LC
Shop LC
39.3 19 UHF 210.72° 38.07 mi
QVC2
QVC2
39.4 19 UHF 210.72° 38.07 mi
WPXI-HD
nbc
NBC
11.1 23 UHF 214.37° 38.2 mi
Me-TV
me-tv
Me-TV
11.2 23 UHF 214.37° 38.2 mi
LAFF TV
Laff
11.3 23 UHF 214.37° 38.2 mi
WTAE
abc
ABC
04.1 27 UHF 193.97° 45.56 mi
Cozi TV
COZI TV
04.2 27 UHF 193.97° 45.56 mi
Stadium
Stadium
22.2 27 UHF 193.97° 45.56 mi
Comet
comet tv
Comet TV
22.3 27 UHF 193.97° 45.56 mi
TBD
TBD
22.4 27 UHF 193.97° 45.56 mi
NBC
nbc
NBC
06.1 35 UHF 139.57° 49.69 mi
METV
me-tv
Me-TV
06.2 35 UHF 139.57° 49.69 mi
Comet
comet tv
Comet TV
06.3 35 UHF 139.57° 49.69 mi
CW+
cw+
CW+
06.4 35 UHF 139.57° 49.69 mi
WKBN-HD
cbs
CBS
27.1 31 UHF 280.56° 55.17 mi
WYFX-HD
fox
FOX
27.2 31 UHF 280.56° 55.17 mi
WYTV-HD
abc
ABC
33.1 31 UHF 280.56° 55.17 mi
My YTV
MyN
33.2 31 UHF 280.56° 55.17 mi
WFMJ-HD
nbc
NBC
21.1 20 UHF 281.79° 55.65 mi
WBCB-HD
cw
CW
21.2 20 UHF 281.79° 55.65 mi
DABL
Dabl
21.3 20 UHF 281.79° 55.65 mi
FOX
fox
FOX
08.1 8 VHF 155.38° 56.12 mi
ABC
abc
ABC
08.2 8 VHF 155.38° 56.12 mi
WWLM-CD
this tv
This TV
20.1 36 UHF 213.78° 60.57 mi
MOVIES!
gettv
GetTV
20.2 36 UHF 213.78° 60.57 mi
RETRO
retro tv
Retro TV
20.3 36 UHF 213.78° 60.57 mi
LWN
20.4 36 UHF 213.78° 60.57 mi
WPSUHD
pbs
PBS
03.1 15 UHF 76.55° 61.69 mi
WPSU Cr
create
Create
03.2 15 UHF 76.55° 61.69 mi
WPSU WL
world channel
World Channel
03.3 15 UHF 76.55° 61.69 mi
PSUKIDS
PBS Kids 24/7
03.4 15 UHF 76.55° 61.69 mi
ABC
abc
ABC
23.1 24 UHF 111.62° 64.95 mi
FOX
fox
FOX
23.2 24 UHF 111.62° 64.95 mi
This
this tv
This TV
23.3 24 UHF 111.62° 64.95 mi
Antenna
antenna tv
Antenna TV
23.4 24 UHF 111.62° 64.95 mi

[rabbit73]

Rabbit Ears is trickyYes, it is; you have to do it just right.
I was able to receive WTAE until a couple weeks ago.
It was never one of my better stations
Now it's very pixelated and is watchable very infrequently.
WTAE is listed as a Tropo channel. Atmospheric changes will affect the signal.

http://forum.tvfool.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=3892&d=1601083983

I'm an old fart so I need my son to climb for me.
I know what that feels like; I'm 87.

Like to get WTAE because that's where the best college football games are:)
WTAE will always be difficult for you because there is a hill in the signal path. You would need an expensive tower to get your antenna high enough.

http://forum.tvfool.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=3891&d=1601082899

Your location is in a dead zone (no color).

http://forum.tvfool.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=3890&d=1601082845

[Tim]

Regarding my VHF, is there a possibility of a bad balun?
I don't know what they do

Also, since the Channel Master is both VHF and UHF, could it pick up some UHF stations?

You most certainly could have a bad balun. A balun matches the impedence of the antenna to the impedence of the coaxial cable. You could also have a bad connection at the balun. Or at the coaxial connectors. Or the coaxial cable itself if it got water inside. Maybe even loose connections on some of the antenna hardware such as the phasing rods. Maybe someone who has this antenna could comment further.

Your CM antenna should pick up both VHF and UHF stations.

[blackstone]

Last night was nice and crisp.
Clear skies.
But, the last week to 10 days have been like this all the time

I wouldn't care too much about WTAE if I could start getting WWCP again

[blackstone]

Tim, thank you for your patience

Are all baluns created equal?
could have one for when we work on the antennas, just in case.

Every thing I know about anything I learned on YouTube.

Tyler the Antenna Man said that an LTE filter may help and , also, a digital converter box.

Any thoughts on this?
I'm going to work on your suggestions first

[rabbit73]

Also, since the Channel Master is both VHF and UHF, could it pick up some UHF stations?
The CM 5020 antenna will pick up UHF channels, but if you are combining your CM antenna with your UHF antenna using a UVSJ, the UVSJ will block any UHF channels coming from the CM antenna.

[rabbit73]

Tyler the Antenna Man said that an LTE filter may help and , also, a digital converter box.

You would only need an LTE filter if you had strong local cellular signals that are causing interference.

I have cellular/LTE signals where TV channels 39 and 40 used to be, but they are not strong enough to cause interference.

http://forum.tvfool.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=3898&d=1601164744

Video to show cellular activity at right end of scan:

downloads and then will play
https://www.dropbox.com/s/i1nt5l3wqse7cbg/Spectrum%20Spy%202020-09-26%2020-34-50.mp4?dl=0

downloads but you have to open
I use VLC player
https://www.dropbox.com/s/i1nt5l3wqse7cbg/Spectrum%20Spy%202020-09-26%2020-34-50.mp4?dl=1

Tyler has a lot of good ideas. One of the converter boxes that he uses is the Mediasonic HW-150PVR. It has a signal quality indicator that is very useful.

Signal dropout is at about 39 to 40%:

http://forum.tvfool.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=3877&d=1600712295

It also is able to add a channel after scan so that you don't have to rescan if you change antennas or antenna direction. A lot of TVs can't do that.

http://forum.tvfool.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=3899&d=1601168533

[blackstone]

Thanks, Rabbit 73 for your info.

[Tim]

Tim, thank you for your patience

Are all baluns created equal?
could have one for when we work on the antennas, just in case.



Couldn't say for sure since I've never seen that antenna up close, but looking at the YouTube video for assembly of your antenna, it looks like the balun assembly is an integral part of the antenna.

[rabbit73]

it looks like the balun assembly is an integral part of the antenna.Yes, it is.

http://forum.tvfool.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=3901&d=1601248023


Are all baluns created equal?
could have one for when we work on the antennas, just in case.

Did you see this thread by BigHenry? He has a CM5020 and had balun problems.
https://forum.tvfool.com/showthread.php?t=16704

https://forum.tvfool.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=3601&d=1577038712

https://forum.tvfool.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=3602&d=1577038735

https://forum.tvfool.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=3603&d=1577038755

He replaced the PCB balun with a CM94444 balun. It didn't work too well until he shortened the leads to 2-1/2" as I had suggested in my balun tests.

http://forum.tvfool.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=3902&d=1601253188

New Channel Master Balun
https://forum.tvfool.com/showthread.php?t=16297

[blackstone]

Thanks for that info

I just remembered I had a coax tester

Wonder if that will tell me anything useful?

[Tim]

Thanks for that info

I just remembered I had a coax tester

Wonder if that will tell me anything useful?

Depends on what particular coax tester you have. Some test just for continuity and others measure the dB loss of the cable.

[blackstone]

I think mine just tests for continuity

[blackstone]

Finally got a chance to get back to this
I only messed with the DB8E, so far.

Did a continuity test on all the cables and all read "Open"
Broke all outside connections and applied dielectric grease.
Found one connection was a little loose.
Checked all connections for tightness.

Had a Mediasonic tuner to see if that might help.
Didn't, so I removed it and am sending back.

Was able to get WTAE RF 27 Virtual 4 badly pixelated.

I haven't had any luck getting WWCP 8 even though I moved the CM for that.
Both my preamps are in the basement.
Could they be bad?

The splitter amplifier is brand new

Any suggestions are appreciated

Thanks for your patience

[blackstone]

Finally got a chance to get back to this
I only messed with the DB8E, so far.

Did a continuity test on all the cables and all read "Open"
Broke all outside connections and applied dielectric grease.
Found one connection was a little loose.
Checked all connections for tightness.

Had a Mediasonic tuner to see if that might help.
Didn't, so I removed it and am sending back.

Was able to get WTAE RF 27 Virtual 4 badly pixelated.

I haven't had any luck getting WWCP 8 even though I moved the CM for that.
Both my preamps are in the basement.
Could they be bad?

The splitter amplifier is brand new

Any suggestions are appreciated

Thanks for your patience

[blackstone]

Correction to the above.
The pre amps are outside on the antennas.
Must be the power for them in the basement

They are antennas direct Pa 18 pre amps