***Alert*** New database has serious issue ***

[ADTech]

A new database with the timestamp of 201710251434 was installed overnight(?) Unfortunately, it has major issues that render it problematic, at best.

Specific issues noted so far (I've only checked a few cities so far) appear to be those stations with new construction permits (CP) for their post-repack reassignments. Those either are completely missing from reports or they are listed under their post re-pack channel assignment, some of with are still as far out as almost 2 1/2 years.

That means that almost a thousand full power and Class A stations in the country might have incorrect (premature) or missing data in the reports generated from this new database.

Hopefully, the proprietor will be able to address this.

[JoeAZ]

Really appreciate the "heads up" on this....
It will confuse a whole lot of people.... if left
as is.

[ADTech]

Update:

I'm not sure how pervasive the issue might be. The first two cities I checked (Richmond, VA and St Louis) had the serious errors noted so I posted the notice. I've stepped through the top ten major markets just now and looked briefly at them.


Based on a quick check, here's what I've observed:



So far, Boston is the only top 10 market that I didn't quickly spot an error on.



NYC, LA, Philly, Chicago, Dallas, Houston, San Francisco, Atlanta, Washington DC all have errors with at least one re-packed station that is missing.

[Jake V]

Confirmed.

Just to test I looked at my brother's plot in Scranton / Wilkes-Barre, PA. The primary ABC & NBC stations are there, but everything else is gone (Fox, CBS, PBS, etc.). Plus all the repeaters are gone, too.

My own market (Washington, DC / Baltimore) is also missing stations (CBS, NBC, etc.).

[rabbit73]

Will TVFool Survive Repack?
By rabbit73

TVFool has helped us a lot;
It showed us what we should have got.
The repack plan has caused it pain;
Will TVFool go down the drain?

[jrgagne99]

I've only been frequenting TVFool for a year or so, but it does seem that traffic has been especially light the last month or two...

[tvlurker]

In Vermont / Upstate new York area, both WWNY and WCAX appear with their post-re-pack channels, whether one clicks on current or pending.

[rabbit73]

The FCC map site compared with TVFool:

http://forum.tvfool.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=2935&d=1509402536

http://forum.tvfool.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=2936&d=1509402570

The FCC list shows 7 strong channels, but the TVFool list only shows one: WIS.

[JoeAZ]

And....... the stations call letters don't match up as well,
except for WIS TV.

[ADTech]

I've only been frequenting TVFool for a year or so, but it does seem that traffic has been especially light the last month or two...
It's not just this forum, most of them appear to have quieted down. Even the call/email volume here into our help center has lightened up a bit over the last few weeks. It's a seasonal thing more than anything else, I've observed it numerous times.

Will TVFool Survive Repack?
Will TVFool Survive Repack?
By rabbit73

TVFool has helped us a lot;
It showed us what we should have got.
The repack plan has caused it pain;
Will TVFool go down the drain? Funny, but I don't think that the repack, although its data changes are underlying this huge SNAFU, are the root cause of the issue. It seems more like it is a matter of either a lack of time, focus, or interest on the part of the site's owner/operator to actively maintain both the site's data and the forum. For example, I've reported errors in the database going way back and none of them were ever corrected. It's almost like the whole thing has been mostly on auto-pilot for a long time with no one checking to see if the course was still true.

... or maybe it's just me... ;) :shrug:

[rabbit73]

It seems more like it is a matter of either a lack of time, focus, or interest on the part of the site's owner/operator to actively maintain both the site's data and the forum......It's almost like the whole thing has been mostly on auto-pilot for a long time.....Yes, I agree.

Does Andy Lee know about this?

Does he care?

Is he alive?

[ADTech]

I was indeed referring to Andy...

I have no idea as to the rest of the questions.

[OTAFAN]

Remember when the website was loading V-E-R-Y S-L-O-W-L-Y not too long ago??? That issue took awhile to resolve, if I remember correctly.

I imagine this issue probably will take longer. I hope whoever is in charge, Andy is his name you say, will be actively working to bring it up to date.

TV Fool is too important for many of us out here in OTA Land to see it go down hill! Please correct this issue ASAP, Andy!! :eek:

Thanks very much!!!

[Jake V]

Has anyone contacted Andy Lee to inform him of the issue with the database?

I run several websites but don't actively provide content for them. There have been times when there were technical problems that I could not fix until someone told me about them.

[JoeAZ]

The "repack" is already turning into a bit of a mess. Here in Northern
Arizona, we depend mostly on translators for television. As I understood
it, translators weren't suppose to be affected until 2019 at the earliest.
We already have 8 translators moving by a December 1st deadline,
with more to come early in 2018. It's no wonder why there are so many
issues on this forum and elsewhere.....

[ADTech]

Has anyone contacted Andy Lee to inform him of the issue with the database?He has not acknowledged any of the messages that have been sent.

Translators (and LPTV stations) do not have (never did) any protection from getting bumped off their operating channels by a new licensee of spectrum. T-Mo is already rolling out 600 MHz service in areas where they purchased spectrum in those blocks which means the current users of that spectrum (non-full power, non Class A), have been given their eviction notices. Article from this summer: http://www.tvnewscheck.com/article/104935/repack-phase-zero-you-could-be-in-trouble

[rickbb]

The repack is doing crazy things here in central NC.

For awhile I had about 9 virtual channel 22's, only 4 had actual content. Then a few weeks ago they went to the normal 4 and now I have about 10 virtual channel 20's, and only 3 of those show any content.

Weird when doing a channel surf. Channels suddenly show up with no content, then disappear a few weeks later.

[ADTech]

The repack is doing crazy things here in central NC.

For awhile I had about 9 virtual channel 22's, only 4 had actual content. Then a few weeks ago they went to the normal 4 and now I have about 10 virtual channel 20's, and only 3 of those show any content.

Weird when doing a channel surf. Channels suddenly show up with no content, then disappear a few weeks later.
That is unlikely to have anything to do with the repack since the repack hasn't started yet except for a few sign-offs, it's probably something else.

You'd have to explicitly identify the stations by call letters, virtual, and real channel numbers in order to dig into it.

[ADTech]

I noticed that the database date code is now 201711011344.

I don't know what the changes were, but I haven't come across any observed changes from my original report two weeks ago. The originally reported issue still remains making the tool only semi-usable.

[rabbit73]

The database with that date code is still defective.

http://www.tvfool.com/?option=com_wrapper&Itemid=29&q=id%3d60ed583289b52c

https://i.imgur.com/JCHgeDE.jpg

and the more accurate, as far as listed channels goes, RabbitEars looks like this:

https://i.imgur.com/1dHusur.jpg

and the FCC DTV Reception Maps for comparison:

https://i.imgur.com/dMf57Go.jpg

TVFool uses true and magnetic north, RabbitEars uses true north; and FCC DTV uses magnetic (compass) north for azimuth. Although the FCC channel list gives the direction based on magnetic (compass) north, the map they show is based on true north.

https://i.imgur.com/OWrCGIF.jpg

[rickbb]

That is unlikely to have anything to do with the repack since the repack hasn't started yet except for a few sign-offs, it's probably something else.

You'd have to explicitly identify the stations by call letters, virtual, and real channel numbers in order to dig into it.

The repack was the only thing I could blame. The no content channels don't show any call letters on my TV or signals. Maybe it's the TV, hmmm just in time for the holiday sales.

[ADTech]

Any idea what "real" channel it was? Could just be how the tuner happens to handle a weak or noisy signal. I've had scans on some of my sets come up populating both real and the virtual channels with one or both of the entries corrupted.

[JoeAZ]

Another member, Stan, went through the previous databases
and found that the January 2017 database was the most
accurate and complete for most areas. That won't help for
areas already beginning the repack but it is better than current
offerings.

[shovel99]

I posted several channels missing recently from their being reported properly, apparently, when I started the cord cutting research January of 2017. WPXA channel 31 in our market, ION the most important.
Good luck to the site owner, it has been very valuable to me and apparently us. What exactly is the "repack" you are talking about?
Thanks,
Paul

[OTAFAN]

What exactly is the "repack" you are talking about?

T Mobile was the highest bidder and took the lions share of spectrum or frequencies above UHF real channel 35, paying billions to the FCC for control of new cell phone business over the next several years, as I understand it.

So, instead of the current ceiling of channel 52, the new OTA TV ceiling will be channel 35, I think. OTA viewing will be limited to frequencies covering low VHF-high VHF and UHF up to channel 35, again as I understand it.

Cell phone business is MR. B-I-G.....

[eggman531916]

Thank you ADTech for posting this. My market is the Johnstown-Altoona market in PA and I was wondering why WTAJ and WATM were gone from the listing. I was going to post something about it when I ran across this thread, which answered my questions perfectly. I really hope this gets resolved as TV Fool is my go-to site for the reception question that people always ask me (aka: What all can I get with an antenna.) The FCC site is no where near as accurate.

[shovel99]

....so unemployed twenty somethings can watch TV on their Iphones in their parents basement. Great job Gubment.

Thanks OTAFAN and ADTech for keeping us abreast.

This is happening when large LARGE numbers are cutting cable and rushing to free OTA TV. The big Monopoly Cell companies are also the big Monopoly Cable TV providers. Can anyone smell a rat here? They are losing huge numbers of cable TV subscribers ... .and they pay a few Billion to eliminate free TV to stop the exodus? Just carnally disgusting that our supposed "regulators" let them get away with such monopolistic practices. I have read where regulators in "socialist europe" are doing a better job of protecting the people in a natural monopoly such as these services and force the providers to make their service available to remarketers at cost. That drives the pricing so that the average "triple play" bundle costs $30 per month in a number of Euro countries... not the $120+ it is here. The State of GA PSC does something similar with natural gas and it works really well.
Shovel99

[OTAFAN]

For my meager posts, you're welcome shovel99. But I have to give credit to rabbitt73, because he was first to mention the subject in a previous thread of mine, or perhaps it was actually his thread--can't remember at the moment.

So then I tore into the web regarding the subject and read as much as I could find. It gets rather complicated with various points of view and a lot of BUT.....BUT.....BUT.....but in the final analysis, I think you're right about who really loses out in the end--us OTA fans and many who are strained to pay the cable and satellite fees required to watch the numerous channels today.

So, now it appears we are going to have to go Back To The Future (to quote popular film culture), by getting our large antennas back up on our roofs. Several networks here in the greater LA/OC SoCal Counties are slated to broadcast on low VHF because that's about the only place where there is some availability. One shopping network is already on real channel 5, and Retro TV is going to real channel 4 from its current UHF real channel 42. And there probably will be more to come.

BUT.....maybe Adtech will realize his people at Antennas Direct could make some money by coming up with a smaller size antenna capable of receiving low VHF-high VHF-UHF topping off at real channel 35???

Just saying.....

[Sev]

Perhaps somebody should reload the old Database

This is my original chart from over a year ago.

http://i162.photobucket.com/albums/t278/Sevelli/Radar-All_zpsutby1dco.png (http://s162.photobucket.com/user/Sevelli/media/Radar-All_zpsutby1dco.png.html)

This is one from last night.
http://i162.photobucket.com/albums/t278/Sevelli/Antennas/TVFool%201-11-2018_zpshnfg4zap.png (http://s162.photobucket.com/user/Sevelli/media/Antennas/TVFool%201-11-2018_zpshnfg4zap.png.html)

Good thing I saved it.

[ADTech]

Perhaps somebody should reload the old Database There is only one "somebody" who can do that (the site owner) and he's been unresponsive so far.

[Sev]

There is only one "somebody" who can do that (the site owner) and he's been unresponsive so far.

Well that is quite unfortunate.

Hopefully the problem with the site is not due to the owner having any health problems or other challenges in his life.

[rabbit73]

NEW DATABASE NOW BEING USED FOR REPORTS

TVFool is now using a new database, datecode 201801291705.

It's giving me much more accurate report.

[ADTech]

This is great news! Spread the word!

[Sev]

Just checked mine.
Looks like it is correct again.
I will compare it to my original.

[Sev]

Still a couple of differences. But much better.

[jrgagne99]

I think mine is unchanged. It still shows a post-repack channel allocation for at least one station, and pre-repack allocation for others... NM values are consistent with mid-2017 database queries.