Help with a new setup

[TX1228]

So I've finally made the decision to cut the cord and would greatly appreciate any assistance as I go forward. The following information is requested in the sticky:

A link to a TV Fool report: http://www.tvfool.com/?option=com_wrapper&Itemid=29&q=id%3de6a4b7f1111abe

Existing equipment is a Dish satellite running about 40 ft from a shed to a 4 way splitter and then coax to individual rooms in the house.

I believe I can get everything I need from the channels from 165 to 170 degrees.

I would like to run from a single antennae to 4 or possibly 5 drops in the house. Also I would eventually like to use some sort of digital channel guide and DVR, preferably without a monthly subscription or one that would give me the most bang for the buck.

Thanks again in advance for any assistance.

[JoeAZ]

Is there some specific reason your dish is on a shed
40 feet from your home? What is your situation with
trees at 165 degrees??? Are the trees nearby??
No way to assess without more information.

[TX1228]

Well it's actually a pump house for my well and that's where the dish is mounted because I didn't want the installer 10 years ago to drill into my new house. I'm not opposed to installing the antennae on the house though as long as I could do it without any chance of causing a leak in the roof.

No issues with trees to the South from 090 to 270 within at least 300 yds.

[JoeAZ]

Thanks for the info. The ION station at only 8 miles is likely to
cause some challenges. It may overload your tuners, causing
the weaker stations to be unreceivable. The small, durable
yet capable Winegard 7694p costs just over $40.00 at Amazon
and HomeDepot.com To avoid any roof penetrations and leaks,
I'd use a "J" mount from MCM electronics but your old Dish
Mount would suffice quite well and save you money. Keep it
simple, especially at first. Purchase new RG6 cable, 50 feet
and run the cable from the antenna to one television through
a door or window. With one person holding the antenna and
the other watching the tv, either do a scan or check your signal
meter, if your set has one. You'll need to experiment and it
may take several hours to see where on your home you get the
best signal. You may just be better off with the Savannah
stations, even though that isn't your closest or home tv market.
Once you have your best signals and location, mount the
antenna. Don't forget to ground your system. It protects
against lightning and can enhance reception as well.
Do not use any kind of amplification, it will only cause problems.
Hope this gets you started.

[rabbit73]

I agree with Joe that the Winegard HD7694P is a good choice and that you can't use a preamp because it will be overloaded by WPXC.

http://forum.tvfool.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=2236&d=1471824123

Interpreting Noise Margin in the TV Fool Report
http://www.aa6g.org/DTV/Reception/tvfool_nm.html

Try it first with just one TV, then add a splitter for the other TVs.

If WPXC is so strong that it is harming the reception of your weaker channels, you can try inserting a Channel Plus NF-471 Notch Filter to make WPXC weaker without doing too much harm to your other channels.

NF-471: Notch Filter
Removes CATV channels 75-80 and UHF channels 24-29
Notch filter frequency 529.25 MHz to 559.25 MHz
24 530-536 MHz
25 536-542
26 542-548
27 548-554
28 554-560
29 560-566

Par Electronics might make a filter to attenuate channel 24:

http://www.parelectronics.com/single-channel-tv.php

Tin Lee Electronics in Canada could also make one for you, but it would be expensive.

[TX1228]

Thank you both for your time and recommendations. I also appreciate the advice for a mounting method. I'll start with this and see what happens.

If I do have to put in a filter to reduce the ION channel strength would that antenna still be sufficient to reach the other channels down that bearing that are approximately 50 miles out?

[rabbit73]

If the tvfool report is correct, it should be OK down to WJXX.

If the filter makes ION weaker, then you will be able to use a preamp.

Mileage figures don't mean much; they are just marketing tools. What good is a "50-mile" antenna if you have a hill five miles away that is in the signal path?

What counts is the strength of the signal at your antenna.

[TX1228]

Thanks Rabbit and Joe....one more question if y'all don't mind. How would this change if I were to go with an attic mount, or do you not recommend that at all?

[rabbit73]

The 7694 has just enough gain for outside. If you put it in the attic, the signals would be weaker, but the attic loss is difficult to predict.

To find out, it would be necessary to try it.

PBS and ABC are in the red in your report. The tvfool FAQ says:

Yellow
An attic-mounted antenna is probably needed to pick up channels at this level and above

Red
A roof-mounted antenna is probably needed to pick up channels at this level and above

http://www.tvfool.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=57

[TX1228]

Thank you....I'll stick with outside right now to keep things simple. Not sure I would watch PBS much, but I'd like to get all the major networks.

[rickbb]

Another thing to think though is using the existing cable from the dish install.

Cable and dish installers are notorious for being poorly trained, low pay and just get it over with attitudes. (They get a flat fee for everything they do, and it's not much to start with.)

None of that matters with cable or dish reception because the signals are very strong and flat. So bad connections, long runs, etc, won't noticeably degrade your reception. I've seen installs from cable guys with 4 separate splitters piggy backed on each other. Totally killed reception at the 3rd and 4th TV when using an antenna even when the first TV got everything the home owner wanted.

Over the air reception is very much affected by such things as bad connections, long cable runs, number and type of splitters, etc.

Start with just one TV and as short a new cable as you can to find and fine tune where you put the antenna. Work from there to determine if and which cable run you can use and which ones you may have to replace.

[JoeAZ]

An attic installation is always hit and miss as Rabbit stated.
A larger antenna, with more gain, probably wouldn't fit in
your attic. The recommended Winegard 7694P is really
sturdy and quite compact. It will handle Florida weather
and won't be an eyesore as well.

[TX1228]

Thanks for the advice Rick and Joe...after looking into it more I think I'll be mounting it on the house vice the pump house so I definitely won't be using the DISH installed hardware, but good looking out and I agree with your statement.

Anyone have any experiences with using DVR's on an OTA setup?

[JoeAZ]

While I personally don't have one, the Channel Master DVR+
seems to work well on installations I've completed. The tuners
are on par with most televisions. On the other hand, I've seen
and read about lots of issues with Tivo. The tuners have issues
with too weak or too strong signals. They seem to be unstable.

https://www.channelmaster.com/DVR_Plus_p/cm-7500gb16.htm

[ADTech]

FWIW, we get lots of customer calls from both CM and Tivo customers where the TV set easily picks up stations that the DVRs have problems with.

YMMV.

[JoeAZ]

FWIW, we get lots of customer calls from both CM and Tivo customers where the TV set easily picks up stations that the DVRs have problems with.

YMMV.

Which one(s) do you recommend???

[ADTech]

Which one(s) do you recommend???
I haven't found any of them that I'd swear by instead of swearing at.... but, I also haven't done much personal hands-on evaluations of them. I still have and occasionally use my Tivo Premiere from about 4-5 years ago and it does well, but it's installed a location that isn't complicated as far as reception is concerned.

[TX1228]

So if I understand correctly the tuners associated with the DVR's aren't as robust as the tuners built into the TV's??? I never really considered that there was a significant difference between tuners.

Also, I understand that the antenna itself needs to be grounded and have no issues with that, but is a lightning arrestor recommended inline on the coax cable as well? If so, are there any recommendations or is one pretty much like the rest?

[rabbit73]

If the antenna is outside, the coax shield should be grounded with a grounding block that is connected to the house electrical system ground with 10 gauge copper wire for electrical safety and to reject interference. For further compliance with the electrical code (NEC), the mast should also be grounded in a similar manner to drain any buildup of static charge which will tend to discourage a strike, but the system will not survive a direct strike.

http://forum.tvfool.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=1559&d=1441917363

It is possible to insert a coax surge protector, but a grounding block will satisfy the NEC requirement for an ADU (Antenna Discharge Unit).

http://forum.tvfool.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=2040&d=1466357601

Lightning strike density map:
http://forum.tvfool.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=2789&d=1499441983

[ADTech]

So if I understand correctly the tuners associated with the DVR's aren't as robust as the tuners built into the TV's???Not at all, most tuners on the market use the same LG chipset. My suspicion is that the observed differences have more to do with the multi-tuner implementations that are going to include a splitter circuit and, perhaps, a "zero-gain" amplifier/splitter arrangement.

[rickbb]

Anyone have any experiences with using DVR's on an OTA setup?


I made my own with a windows PC and a Hauppauge dual tuner card. Added a video card that had a HDMI video feed. Works great.

The software that came with the tuner card will even let you stream live or recorded shows over your local network or the internet so you could watch on a tablet, laptop, phone, etc. I've watched recorded local shows when traveling for work. Which is great if they send me overseas to a non-English speaking country.

PS. I just saw that Hauppauge just came out with a quad channel tuner card. I'm going to try one, they dual model I have has a great tuner in it.

[TX1228]

Well I've got things temporarily set up on a 4ft pole in the yard and have received all the way down through WJXX which is fine for me. Thinking of trying the attic tomorrow to see how the reception is. If that's sufficient I'll leave it there, if not I'll look at mounting outside.

Just wanted to thank everyone for their help. I'll still be looking at DVR options, and may look at the PC option mentioned by Rickbb.

This forum and the people who have helped are awesome, thanks again.

[TX1228]

So first of all, thanks everyone for the help already provided.

I've been running the Wineguard 7694 for almost a year and for the most part it's great. However, occasionally (especially mornings) I can't get several of the major channels that I normally can get. The antenna is mounted on a pole approximately 6 ft above my roofline or 30' or so in the air.

My question is what can I do to eliminate these deadtimes? I've considered the following options, but don't know which to start with or how to decide:
Increase height of mount
Install pre-amp
change antennae

Thanks in advance for any advice or suggestions.

[rabbit73]

Hello again, TX1228

Which channels are giving you a problem?

Are you splitting the signals for more than one TV? If you are, are those channels better on just one TV without the splitter?

Do you have a signal strength indicator on your TV to give you an idea of how weak a signal can be and still be received?

Is your coax grounded with a grounding block that is connected to the house electrical system ground?

Did you try the Channel Plus NF-471 Notch Filter with and without a preamp as suggested earlier?

[rabbit73]

Thank you both for your time and recommendations. I also appreciate the advice for a mounting method. I'll start with this and see what happens.

If I do have to put in a filter to reduce the ION channel strength would that antenna still be sufficient to reach the other channels down that bearing that are approximately 50 miles out?Reducing the strength of WPXC ION should make it possible to use a preamp to make it easier to receive your weaker signals, but I can't guarantee it; you must be willing to experiment.