NH Antenna Recommendations

[hsparks56]

Located in southwestern New Hampshire, need help choosing the best antenna(s) for my location really only interested in getting ABC, CBS, NBC channels. Plot is at 30ft. I have some trees and a small hill near my home. My northeast to southeast location is fairly free of trees. I should be able at this height to get over my small hill and trees in this location. My northwest location is good except for a couple trees which I should get over at this height. My southeast to southwest is not good trees and hill may get over some at this height. Any help would be appreciated. attach is my TVfool report.

[rabbit73]

Hi, hsparks56:

Thanks for the tvfool image, but we really need a link to your report so that we can click on a callsign to see what the terrain looks like between the transmitter and your location.

I don't have your exact address, so I did a report based on an estimate of your location:
http://www.tvfool.com/?option=com_wrapper&Itemid=29&q=id%3d8e03babdf52b0a

It doesn't look very good. You would need 3 antennas aimed in different directions, several combiners, and a preamp.

really only interested in getting ABC, CBS, NBC channels.

NBC WNNE real channel 25:
Antennas Direct DB4e or DB8e, aimed at 347 degrees magnetic, with CM 7777 or 7778 preamp

while you have the DB4E or DB8e up try this:
CBS WBZ real channel 30, aimed at 142 degrees magnetic

and try this:
ABC WCDC real channel 36, aimed at 278 degrees magnetic

If you can't get WCDC for ABC try this:

ABC WMUR real channel 9:
MCM VHF-High antenna, aimed at 62 degrees magnetic
http://www.mcmelectronics.com/product/30-2475?scode=GS401&utm_medium=cse&utm_source=google&utm_campaign=google&catargetid=530004080000291203&cadevice=c&gclid=CMbK3Yf-4sgCFUmUfgodVaQPPg

If you can't get CBS from WBZ the only other way would be with a very big antenna:

CBS WRGB real channel 6:
Solid Signal HD8200XL, aimed at 281 degrees magnetic
http://www.solidsignal.com/pview.asp?p=hd8200xl

Let us know the results, and we can talk about combining. The MCM VHF-High antenna and the Antennas Direct UHF antenna can be combined with a UVSJ.

No guarantee that this will work. Try each antenna alone to see if it will work before combining.

[hsparks56]

Thanks for the reply Rabbit73, I have attached my link to my report for you, you were very close! I have an old Channel Master antenna not sure what model it is, its about 6ft by 6ft UHF/VHF. Put it on the roof temporary to see what I got with no preamp just direct 25ft cable to my tv. got channels 11.1, 11.2, 11.3, 41.1, 41.2, 41.3, 62,1m 62.2, 62.3, 63.4, by turning antenna by hand didn't play with if that much but the channels came in crystal clear. I notice it pick up 5.1 and 5.2 ABC I think but TV was black.
This is about 10ft lower then I will put it. It will be 30ft from ground level when done.

I do have a CM-7777, I have a CM rotator too.

So you think I should go with Antennas Direct DB4e or DB8e?

Appreciate the help and would like to cut the cable!!!

Thanks
hsparks56

[hsparks56]

Sorry here is the TVFool Report.

http://www.tvfool.com/?option=com_wrapper&Itemid=29&q=id%3d8e03248a676f7d

[Tower Guy]

So you think I should go with Antennas Direct DB4e or DB8e?

Thanks
hsparks56

I'd opt for the DB-8e. You'll need the extra gain for CBS. WRGB (CBS) on channel 6 is not that feasible as TVFool does not add extra low band noise to the NM calculation.

The VHF antenna for WMUR is necessary as it adds the local news. If you have the new style Channel Master preamp you'll need a UVSJ to add the VHF and UHF antennas. WCDC (ABC) should work too, but it will mirror WMUR's network programming.

Should NBC from Boston or Mt. Ascutney not work; W38DL is also NBC from Albany, NY.

[ADTech]

TG:

What's an appropriate correction factor for low-V noise based in WRGB's reception area?

AD

[Tower Guy]

The FCC software would subtract 4 db from the NM. It's noisier than that in urban areas.

[hsparks56]

The VHF antenna for WMUR is necessary as it adds the local news. If you have the new style Channel Master preamp you'll need a UVSJ to add the VHF and UHF antennas.

Thanks Towerguy, the UVSJ would be connected to the 2 antennas before connecting to my CM7777 correct?

[Tower Guy]

Thanks Towerguy, the UVSJ would be connected to the 2 antennas before connecting to my CM7777 correct?

That's right.

[hsparks56]

If I install a separate VHF-Hi antenna about 20ft from the my other UHF antenna where my combiner is, would this be ok?

[Tower Guy]

If I install a separate VHF-Hi antenna about 20ft from the my other UHF antenna where my combiner is, would this be ok?

That configuration works fine.

[hsparks56]

If I were to mount the UHF and VHF Hi antenna's on the same mast how many feet should I separate them by and which would be best on top from the other?

[ADTech]

If I were to mount the UHF and VHF Hi antenna's on the same mast how many feet should I separate them by and which would be best on top from the other?

Several feet. 4-5 is most desirable. If they get too close, they start to degrade each others performance.

Whichever one works best. There are no exclusive rules. Find where they each work, then put them there.

[hsparks56]

My electrical service grounding location is on the other side of my house where my antenna/cable will be, can I put a 4ft or 8ft grounding rod in the ground near to my location and ground my cable and antenna from that? If so, does it matter if I use a 4ft or 8ft grounding rod and/or 3/8", 1/2" or 5/8" diameter rod? Appreciate your help.

[ADTech]

NEC requires a minimum 8' ground rod (Art 250?) that is bonded to the main home system with #6conductor. See Art 810 for specifics.

[hsparks56]

So I have my antenna(s) up my VHF hi is on top and my Antennas Direct DB8e is 5 ft below that. I Have no channels after a scan!!! The cable goes from the VHF Hi 6ft to my combiner VHF side and then my DB8e goes 6 ft to the UHF side of combiner then leaves 6ft to my CM 7777 preamplifier, from the preamp it goes 6ft to a grounding block then 25' to my preamp juntion and then short cable to my TV. Any ideas? Saw that all cable should be the same lengths to combiner? Need help had channels when separately hookup.

[ADTech]

1. What are you using as a combiner?
2. Do you have a single continuous length of coax between the amplifier and it's power inserter?
3. Do you have a multimeter?
4. Did you test anything individually before integrating all the components or did you do an "install and hope"? Did you build the system one step at a time and test at each step?

The cable length between each antenna in this configuration is irrelevant.

[Flint Ridge]

ADTech was a click faster and smarter.

[Jake V]

In addition to ADTech's recommendations I would also double check your connections to the Power Inserter (making sure the right coax goes to the right connection), and make sure it is plugged in.

[hsparks56]

1. What are you using as a combiner?
2. Do you have a single continuous length of coax between the amplifier and it's power inserter?
3. Do you have a multimeter?
4. Did you test anything individually before integrating all the components or did you do an "install and hope"? Did you build the system one step at a time and test at each step?

The cable length between each antenna in this configuration is irrelevant.

Thanks ADTech for the quick reply:

1. I use this combiner: http://www.mcmelectronics.com/product/33-2230?green=2AB6D0CB-BC87-5C26-A483-E87D21A22E41

2. No it has a coax ground block in between.

3. Yes

4. No, No

[hsparks56]

Here is a picture of my antenna(s) mounting, cable from preamplifier is temporary until I figure out the reception problem.

[ADTech]

Do a quick check to see if preamp power is getting to the amplifier module. Use your multimeter AT THE AMPLIFIER's signal out/power in connector to check for the +15 VDC from the indoor supply. Simply disconnect the coax lead from the amp and measure between the shield and the center conductor of the coax. Anything between 12 and 18 volts is expected.

If that passes, we've at least eliminated power to the preamp as a cause. You can then do the troubleshooting one of two ways: Either break it down to individual sub-components and verify each, then integrate one step at a time retesting at each or you remove or bypass a single component at a time and see when it starts to work.

[rabbit73]

Go back to testing each antenna alone, and insert the UHF/VHF combiner to check it for each band.

[hsparks56]

Do a quick check to see if preamp power is getting to the amplifier module. Use your multimeter AT THE AMPLIFIER's signal out/power in connector to check for the +15 VDC from the indoor supply. Simply disconnect the coax lead from the amp and measure between the shield and the center conductor of the coax. Anything between 12 and 18 volts is expected.

If that passes, we've at least eliminated power to the preamp as a cause. You can then do the troubleshooting one of two ways: Either break it down to individual sub-components and verify each, then integrate one step at a time retesting at each or you remove or bypass a single component at a time and see when it starts to work.

It appears my channel master 7777 quit working? If my cable wires cross from my preamp will this do?

[rabbit73]

Simply disconnect the coax lead from the amp and measure between the shield and the center conductor of the coax. Anything between 12 and 18 volts is expected.That is a little tricky to do with the end of the coax coming up from the power inserter that connects to the preamp. You have to connect one voltmeter probe to the coax shield and touch the other probe to the center conductor without shorting it to the shield. I sometimes insert the cable connector into an F81 adapter and insert a short length of 18 gauge bare copper wire into the other end of the F81. The 18 gauge wire is the same size as the center conductor of the RG6 coax. The attachments show me checking the voltage at the lower end of the coax when the preamp (old model 7777) is powered.

Do you have the new model 7777 with only one antenna input?

Troubleshooting the new 7777:
http://support.channelmaster.com/hc/en-us/articles/200380525-How-do-I-troubleshoot-my-CM7777-preamplifier-to-make-sure-it-is-working-correctly-

http://downloads.channelmaster.com/Sheets/7777_7778_UG.pdf

http://forum.tvfool.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=1327&d=1436753605

It appears my channel master 7777 quit working?What makes you think it is bad?
If my cable wires cross from my preamp will this do?Please explain what you mean by that.

Can you receive anything on either antenna without the 7777?

[hsparks56]

That is a little tricky to do with the end of the coax coming up from the power inserter that connects to the preamp. You have to connect one voltmeter probe to the coax shield and touch the other probe to the center conductor without shorting it to the shield. I sometimes insert the cable connector into an F81 adapter and insert a short length of 18 gauge bare copper wire into the other end of the F81. The 18 gauge wire is the same size as the center conductor of the RG6 coax. The attachments show me checking the voltage at the lower end of the coax when the preamp (old model 7777) is powered.

Do you have the new model 7777 with only one antenna input?

Troubleshooting the new 7777:
http://support.channelmaster.com/hc/en-us/articles/200380525-How-do-I-troubleshoot-my-CM7777-preamplifier-to-make-sure-it-is-working-correctly-

http://downloads.channelmaster.com/Sheets/7777_7778_UG.pdf

http://forum.tvfool.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=1327&d=1436753605

What makes you think it is bad?
Please explain what you mean by that.

Can you receive anything on either antenna without the 7777?

Should the switch for UHF be on or off on my combiner it says; Switchable DC passthrough is provided from output to UHF input, allowing a remotely powered signal amplifier to be used with the UHF antenna?

What I meant on the coaxial cables crossing over is going into the house the same cable crosses it self in places.

Going to take down antenna today and check connections and test.

[rabbit73]

I haven't used that combiner, but as near as I can tell the switch should be off if a preamp is used after the combiner. If you made a test with the switch on with no preamp but the power inserter on and powered, there is a chance that you have damaged the combiner or inserter or both.

What I meant on the coaxial cables crossing over is going into the house the same cable crosses it self in places.
I still don't understand; I would need to see a diagram of what is connected to what.

[hsparks56]

I haven't used that combiner, but as near as I can tell the switch should be off if a preamp is used after the combiner. If you made a test with the switch on with no preamp but the power inserter on and powered, there is a chance that you have damaged the combiner or inserter or both.


I still don't understand; I would need to see a diagram of what is connected to what.

Thanks rabbit73, I check out all connections, combiner, preamp, etc. everything was good, it turn out to be my new db8e antenna, I had some second thoughts when I received it with the box partly open and taped??? I put my old UHF antenna up in place of it and everything worked. I am returning it for a replacement. Thanks again. Will see what the new one does when it comes in.

[ADTech]

May I ask where you purchased a DB8e that was received in that condition?

[hsparks56]

May I ask where you purchased a DB8e that was received in that condition?

ADTech, It was from Amazon, I am returning it for another one, hopefully this one with be good. I read good reviews here and recommendation for the DB8e, will keep trying.

[rabbit73]

Sorry to hear you got a lemon, but glad that you found the problem.

Good detective work, hsparks56!

I have heard stories about returns being resold on Amazon. There is more than one listing for DB8e antennas on Amazon. Some say "Ships from and sold by Amazon.com." and others say "Ships from and sold by Techibble." or "Ships from and sold by UnbeatableSale, Inc." I would think the "Ships from and sold by Amazon.com." listing would be more reliable.

I also see they are selling the older DB8 (no e) for less than the DB8e, and some clones like the FOCUS-8HD-90D, Xtreme Signal HDB8X-NI 8-Bay, and Dual Quad Bay Outdoor by Stellar Labs,

Which listing did you use?

Antennas don't ship well; the cartons seem inadequate. About half the antennas I have ordered have arrived with some damage.

[ADTech]

I would think the "Ships from and sold by Amazon.com." listing would be more reliable.

Absolutely. We've had a number of Amazon Marketplace sellers offering "recycled" merchandise as new over the years....

[hsparks56]

Absolutely. We've had a number of Amazon Marketplace sellers offering "recycled" merchandise as new over the years....

Have my new DB8e up, tried it before I put it up got channels in my upstairs bedroom. Installed back on mast, no channels anywhere I point it. Hooked it up alone with amplifier still no channels??? What is going on this makes no sense. My old UHF antenna works in the same location on the mast, not impressed by this antenna at all!!

[ADTech]

For troubleshooting purposes, run a temporary dedicated coaxial cable directly from the antenna's combiner unit to the nearest TV set. There's something going on here in your installation that isn't immediately evident and it is going to be necessary to break down the system to its individual components in order to understand what is going on.

That means: No amplifier, no external combiner, both panels aligned in a single direction at a time. Test reception. If you have stations in another direction, re-aim the antenna and retest individually. We have to learn what is and is not working.

[hsparks56]

For troubleshooting purposes, run a temporary dedicated coaxial cable directly from the antenna's combiner unit to the nearest TV set. There's something going on here in your installation that isn't immediately evident and it is going to be necessary to break down the system to its individual components in order to understand what is going on.

That means: No amplifier, no external combiner, both panels aligned in a single direction at a time. Test reception. If you have stations in another direction, re-aim the antenna and retest individually. We have to learn what is and is not working.

I have already eliminated everything stated above, I am only hooked into the DB8e directly with no amplifier, external combiner, etc. The only thing I haven't done is aligned the two panels in a single direction, but this defeats my purpose of buying the antenna to use in two directions? Not trying to sound negative just discouraged.

Thanks ADTech

[rabbit73]

The only thing I haven't done is aligned the two panels in a single direction, but this defeats my purpose of buying the antenna to use in two directions?Understood, but that is an important part of the test. It eliminates that possibility.

Without aiming both panels in the same direction, you don't really know if that is the cause of the problem or it is something else.

At this point all you know is that one antenna works and the other doesn't, but you still don't know why.

[hsparks56]

Understood, but that is an important part of the test. It eliminates that possibility.

Without aiming both panels in the same direction, you don't really know if that is the cause of the problem or it is something else.

At this point all you know is that one antenna works and the other doesn't, but you still don't know why.

Found problem, it was a bad coaxial cable, seems like it worked when it wanted too. I did try aiming both panels in same direction works good and I think I'm going to keep them this way even though it works with them in different directions. The pictures are amazing!! What a difference from Cable. I am going with a rotor which ones would you recommend?

Thanks AD Tech, rabbit73!!!!

[ADTech]

Glad to hear you found the issue (and that it wasn't the antenna after all).

[Tim]

Found problem, it was a bad coaxial cable, seems like it worked when it wanted too. I did try aiming both panels in same direction works good and I think I'm going to keep them this way even though it works with them in different directions. The pictures are amazing!! What a difference from Cable. I am going with a rotor which ones would you recommend?

Thanks AD Tech, rabbit73!!!!

If it works good with the panels pointing in different directions, I don't understand why you would want to go to a rotor. For TV antennas, rotors are a pain the the a.., I mean rear...

[hsparks56]

If it works good with the panels pointing in different directions, I don't understand why you would want to go to a rotor. For TV antennas, rotors are a pain the the a.., I mean rear...

Tim, re-think the situation and read about the pros & cons of a rotor, I'm staying with just my 2 antennas.

[hsparks56]

Glad to hear you found the issue (and that it wasn't the antenna after all).

Thanks ADTech and Rabbit73 for all your help, I get about 16 channels now and all very clear, my wife can't believe how sharp the pictures are!

Again, thanks for putting up with me and for all your help, very much appreciated.

[hsparks56]

That is a little tricky to do with the end of the coax coming up from the power inserter that connects to the preamp. You have to connect one voltmeter probe to the coax shield and touch the other probe to the center conductor without shorting it to the shield. I sometimes insert the cable connector into an F81 adapter and insert a short length of 18 gauge bare copper wire into the other end of the F81. The 18 gauge wire is the same size as the center conductor of the RG6 coax. The attachments show me checking the voltage at the lower end of the coax when the preamp (old model 7777) is powered.

Do you have the new model 7777 with only one antenna input?

Troubleshooting the new 7777:
http://support.channelmaster.com/hc/en-us/articles/200380525-How-do-I-troubleshoot-my-CM7777-preamplifier-to-make-sure-it-is-working-correctly-

http://downloads.channelmaster.com/Sheets/7777_7778_UG.pdf

http://forum.tvfool.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=1327&d=1436753605

What makes you think it is bad?
Please explain what you mean by that.

Can you receive anything on either antenna without the 7777?


rabbit73, I decided to hook back up my VHF Hi antenna with my combiner, neither my VHF or my UHF antenna will work no channels at all, I tested it, and it seem to check out, any idea what is going on? When I had it hooked up before my UHF antenna problem it didn't work then either, I saw other combiners which were for VHF low etc. this one was suppose to go with my antenna as recommended by the MCM Electronics?