Need new antenna?...and other problems

[seashipsink]

Here is my report http://www.tvfool.com/?option=com_wrapper&Itemid=29&q=id%3d27ee092f192463

I have been using this antenna JENSEN TV-631 (http://www.amazon.com/JENSEN-TV-631-Amplified-Tv-Antenna/dp/B0006GWCFY) to receive OTA signals and I get the following channels:

KREMDT - 2.1 - CBS
KXLYDT - 4.1 - ABC (somewhat weak signal, all 4s)
KXLYDT2 - 4.2
KXMNLD3 - 4.3 (mirror of 4.1)
KHQDT - 6.1 - NBC
KHQDT2 - 6.2
KHQDT3 - 6.3
KSPSDT - 7.1 - PBS
KSPSDT2 - 7.2
KSPSDT3 - 7.3
KSKNDT - 22.1 - CW (somewhat weak signal)
KAYUDT - 28.1 - FOX
KAYUDT2 - 28.2

I have a Visio LCD and a Hauppauge HVR-2250 as my two main TV tuners.
When I scan channels with the Visio and the HVR-2250 there are quite a few more channels listed in the guide but I only receive the above channels with any signal at all. Also, when I scan with the Visio all of the 4s have 2 copies of each listed in the guide but there is only a signal on 1 of each (the signal is reliable and rarely cuts out). The HVR-2250 on has only one copy of each but I barely get a signal and have to wiggle the antenna around to be able to (barely) watch the channel (it still cuts out often). Why might that be?

The local PBS station has recently switched over to a better signal and according to the website the channel has changed to 8.1. However when I scan with either tuner it still lists it as 7.1. And ever since the change my HVR-2250 has been unable to receive the channel at all. It used to be one of the best signals I received. Any other standalone TVs receive the signal fine (albeit on 7.1 instead of 8.1).

Any recommendations on these problems or on an antenna that may solve some of these would be much appreciated.

[mtownsend]

when I scan with the Visio all of the 4s have 2 copies of each listed in the guide but there is only a signal on 1 of each (the signal is reliable and rarely cuts out). The HVR-2250 on has only one copy of each but I barely get a signal and have to wiggle the antenna around to be able to (barely) watch the channel (it still cuts out often). Why might that be?

Hello and welcome!

There are actually two transmitters in your area (KXLY ch 13 and KXMN ch 9) that both map themselves to virtual channel 4. It sounds like your TV and your tuner card are handling this virtual channel collision in different ways. The TV is showing duplicate sub-channels (one set coming from real channel 13, and the other set coming from real channel 9). The tuner card is only showing one set, probably only from one of the real channels.

It looks like both of these transmitters are carrying identical content on their sub-channels (both transmitters are owned by Spokane Television, Inc.), so you don't need to receive both of them. It also looks like one of the signals is easier to receive than the other, so hopefully there's a way to manually delete RF channels from your TV and tuner card channel list so that the "bad" channel is no longer included in your lineup.



The local PBS station has recently switched over to a better signal and according to the website the channel has changed to 8.1. However when I scan with either tuner it still lists it as 7.1.

Yes, the original digital signal for KSPS was on real channel 8 with 21.6 kW of power. In mid 2009, they were granted a construction permit for a transmitter on channel 7 with 45.1 kW of power. As of today, I think they are completely transitioned to the new transmitter and have turned off the channel 8 transmitter for good.

The 8.x or 7.x virtual channel mapping is a simple software setting that they can change at any time. Apparently, they have forgotten or don't want to have their channel 7 broadcast remapped to virtual channel 8.x. Whether the channel show up as 7.x or 8.x is purely a cosmetic thing. The transmitter is definitely on real channel 7 either way.



And ever since the change my HVR-2250 has been unable to receive the channel at all.

I'm not sure how your HVR-2250 software works. Does it need to have a channel database (or access an online channel listing) to figure out which channels to tune to?

I know there have been issues with things like Windows Media Center Edition where the software references a channel database that might be out of date. People discovered the hard way that the software would not allow them to access some new transmitters until the master database was updated with the changes (which might take days, weeks, or months).

Does the HVR-2250 have a "memory" of channels that were successfully scanned in the past (kind of like the way TVs memorize channels from an auto-scan)?

Some converter boxes had a problem where they would not clear-out their channel memory on each auto-scan, and this created a problem around June 12, 2009 when lots of transmitters jumped around to new channel assignments. The only way to fix this on some of the boxes was to do a "double-rescan", which meant 1) disconnecting the antenna, 2) do a full auto-scan that should end up with zero results, 3) power cycle the device, 4) reconnect the antenna, and 5) do another full auto-scan to detect the new channels. On some boxes, the extra first scan was the only way to make the device forget about previously mapped virtual channels.



Any recommendations on these problems or on an antenna that may solve some of these would be much appreciated.

You seem to be getting all the channels that you would expect from an indoor antenna (channels listed in the "green" zone on your tvfool list). There are some duplicate channel conflicts that are adding a bit of confusion to the mix, but overall, I think your antenna is performing at about the right level.

[seashipsink]

Thank you for such a comprehensive and helpful reply! I've got some things sorted but I still haven't figured out the PBS problem...




It looks like both of these transmitters are carrying identical content on their sub-channels (both transmitters are owned by Spokane Television, Inc.), so you don't need to receive both of them. It also looks like one of the signals is easier to receive than the other, so hopefully there's a way to manually delete RF channels from your TV and tuner card channel list so that the "bad" channel is no longer included in your lineup.


I went in to the edit sources setting in Windows Media Center and both signals were listed and apparently being merged to give the one listing I saw. Turning off the weak signal fixed the issues I was having and now ABC is coming in clear and reliable.

However, channel 22.1 (CW) hasn't been giving a good signal lately. Looking at the TVFool report it seems I should be able to get that channel as well as all the others. Any suggestions?


I know there have been issues with things like Windows Media Center Edition where the software references a channel database that might be out of date. People discovered the hard way that the software would not allow them to access some new transmitters until the master database was updated with the changes (which might take days, weeks, or months).

That is what I had feared...do you know of anywhere I can find further information on this or if there is somewhere I can report these changes to get the software updated?


Does the HVR-2250 have a "memory" of channels that were successfully scanned in the past (kind of like the way TVs memorize channels from an auto-scan)?

Some converter boxes had a problem where they would not clear-out their channel memory on each auto-scan, and this created a problem around June 12, 2009 when lots of transmitters jumped around to new channel assignments. The only way to fix this on some of the boxes was to do a "double-rescan", which meant 1) disconnecting the antenna, 2) do a full auto-scan that should end up with zero results, 3) power cycle the device, 4) reconnect the antenna, and 5) do another full auto-scan to detect the new channels. On some boxes, the extra first scan was the only way to make the device forget about previously mapped virtual channels.


I don't think the card has memory like that but I have removed the card and reformatted and reinstalled everything since the problem started and that didn't help at all.

I have been trying to get a hold of Hauppauge tech support to ask about that but they are always busy and I've seen quite a few negative reports on their customer service around the net so I have a feeling I'm on my own as far as hardware is concerned.

Thanks again. I've learned a lot about OTA TV in the last few weeks thanks in large part to the great community here. Keep it up!

[mtownsend]

channel 22.1 (CW) hasn't been giving a good signal lately. Looking at the TVFool report it seems I should be able to get that channel as well as all the others. Any suggestions?

Have you tried adjusting the dial on the base of your antenna? These dials on rabbit-ear + loop antennas are usually there to manually "tune" the loop portion of the antenna (the part that deals with UHF channels). According to the product description for your antenna, this 6-position switch should allow you to adjust the antenna slightly.

If you look at the example gain chart for a loop antenna below, each position of the dial on your antenna should cause the peak of the curve to move to a different channel. If you can find a position that optimizes the gain on channel 36, you might be able to stabilize KSKN (just try all 6 positions until you find the one or two positions that work best).

Typical gain for a generic loop antenna
http://forum.tvfool.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=2&d=1260554610



That is what I had feared...do you know of anywhere I can find further information on this or if there is somewhere I can report these changes to get the software updated?

From what I've read, some of the database files can be edited by hand, but I've never tried this myself, so I can't offer very much guidance in the matter. I found this article on Microsoft's web site that might be of use (it's an older article, circa 2004): http://www.microsoft.com/windowsxp/using/mce/expert/elsbree_dec2004.mspx

If you're using a newer version of MCE (like Windows 7 era), then things seem to have changed a bit.