Will a tuner improve my reception? Help! My girlfriend is going to make us get cable!

[garek007]

Hello,

Here is my tvfool report
http://www.tvfool.com/?option=com_wrapper&Itemid=29&q=id%3d8e03ebdf3654ee

I live in a condo building facing inward to the courtyard. Surprisingly, I am able to pick up all the major networks. In order to do this though, I have to move the antenna for CBS and ABC. AND the cord is strewn across the room.

For me, it's a small price to pay to not have to pay the evil demon Time Warner. She is growing tired of the reception issues and the fact that the cord just hangs there.

I'm using a Winegard Flatwave Non Amplified antenna. I think the reason I have trouble with CBS and ABC is that the tower is on top of Mt Soledad and we are at the base of Mt Soledad.

So I need a little help. I've read about the Tablo which also has a DVR and can stream the signal to my Chromecast. This would mean I could put the antenna completely out of site and no cord will be shown.

So firstly, will a tuner improve my reception? Secondly, anyone have experience with the Tablo? Or can someone recommend a reasonable DVR+Tuner? Tivo seems expensive....

[rabbit73]

Welcome garek007:

The results with an indoor antenna are difficult to predict, because you have signal reflections bouncing around that can interfere with the direct signal. If you are willing to experiment to try to avoid the cable option, I suggest you try the Antennas Direct C2V antenna, which has a base for indoor use. It has a double loop for your UHF channels (real channels 14-51) and a dipole for VHF-High (7-13) that can be separately positioned for channels like CBS and ABC. No preamp should be needed or used.
https://www.antennasdirect.com/store/ClearStream-C2-VHF-Long-Range-Combo-Complete.html
http://www.bestbuy.com/site/antennas-direct-clearstream-2v-long-range-hdtv-antenna-black-silver/6847298.p?id=1218809260470
https://www.antennasdirect.com/cmss_files/attachmentlibrary/pdf/C2WbaseQuickStart_f.pdf

Aim the UHF loops SE and position the dipole broadside (perpendicular to) 2 degrees magnetic. Try different indoor locations and extend the coax with an F81 adapter if necessary.

Remember the words of Dr. Phil: "If momma ain't happy, ain't nobody happy."

Because of the nesting instinct for the survival of the human race, a woman considers all areas in a home or apartment "her areas," and subject to her approval, even a "man cave."

So firstly, will a tuner improve my reception?I don't know. What are you using to receive the signals now?

The Chromecast has been known to cause interference to VHF signals like your CBS and ABC. Keep your system simple, most women like that better.

[garek007]

Thanks I did try that antenna based on things I've read here. I wasn't able to pick up CBS or ABC. The only antenna that helped me do that was the winegard flatwave. So I think the antenna part is good, but is there any truth to a tuner improving reception? Or is that false?

[rabbit73]

is there any truth to a tuner improving reception? Or is that false?Some tuners are a little more sensitive and better able to deal with multipath reflections than others, but the differences are minor. You still haven't told us what you are using now with your Winegard antenna.

[garek007]

Sorry. Right now the antenna is just plugged directly into the coax input of my (fairly old) Samsung TV....

[rabbit73]

Thank you.

Does the Samsung have a signal strength indicator to help you position your antenna?
My girlfriend is going to make us get cable! Is she willing to pay for all or half of it?

You have some very strong FM transmitters only 2 miles away that might be causing interference to TV reception of CBS and ABC. See attachment.
http://www.mcmelectronics.com/product/DISTRIBUTED-BY-MCM-FM-88-/33-341

Instead of the FM filter, you can use a HLSJ as an FM filter, common and high ports, because it will attenuate everything below channel 7 including the FM band.
http://www.solidsignal.com/pview.asp?p=zhlsj
http://www.nsccom.com/hlsj.aspx

There is also the possibility of tuner overload from TV and FM signals. Try an attenuator in the coax line. A splitter can be used as an attenuator; 3.5 dB for a 2-way and 7 dB for a 4-way.
or
https://www.antennasdirect.com/store/Variable-Attenuator.html
http://www.3starinc.com/drop_in-line_attenuator.html
http://home-automation.smarthome.com/search?p=Q&asug=&w=attenuator
http://mjsales.net/collections/attenuators/products/fam-attenuator?variant=1083705673
•Attenuation values 1, 3, 6, 8, 10, 12, 16, 20dB (FAM)
click on 1 dB for other values; the up and down arrows are faint

[garek007]

Hmmm not sure where would I look for that? In the menu?

[rabbit73]

It might not have it, but my Samsung does. What model number is it?
In the menu?yes, sometimes under channel.

[garek007]

I will check when I get home thanks

[rabbit73]

Mine is here
Menu > Support > Self Diagnosis > Signal Strength
it has 10 bars

[Billiam]

I've recently done some head to head tests with my Samsung, Sony and Insignia TV's. I've found the Insignia has the best tuner for locking onto weak signals.

[garek007]

I've attached images. CBS wasn't coming in very well and had 2-3 bars. A good channel on my TV had 9 bars. There is a sweet spot in my home where I can get more bars on CBS, but I could not hit it this morning.

I contacted Tablo and they said their DVR would not improve reception. But if it has some kind of tuner, any kind of tuner, won't it help a little?

[Tim]

But if it has some kind of tuner, any kind of tuner, won't it help a little?

From reading this thread it seems that you think a "tuner" will somehow improve your reception. Are you thinking that the tuner built into your TV set is inferior to having a separate external tuner? It looks like you have a good signal on NBC on real channel 40 so I don't think you have a tuner problem.

[garek007]

Yes I thought I read somewhere that some TVs have inferior tuners and that if you purchased one, it would help with the signal. I already tried the antenna suggested above, but I had no luck. Perhaps I did something wrong? I did not realize it was designed to catch both UHF and VHF.

[Tim]

Yes I thought I read somewhere that some TVs have inferior tuners and that if you purchased one, it would help with the signal. I already tried the antenna suggested above, but I had no luck. Perhaps I did something wrong? I did not realize it was designed to catch both UHF and VHF.

Which antennas have you tried?

[rabbit73]

Thanks for the images for signal strength. Either the tuner in the Samsung is bad on VHF-High CBS and ABC channels or your antenna isn't good for those channels. You will need to do some experiments to find out.

Can you borrow a TV to see if there is a problem with your TV?

Can you insert an attenuator between the antenna and the TV to see if it is weak signal or overload?

The problem might be overload from very strong local FM signals that interfere with the reception of CBS and ABC. Are you willing to try a filter to help with that?

If it is a weak signal from your antenna because it isn't good enough for CBS and ABC are you willing to try another antenna for CBS and ABC with no guarantee that it will help?

[garek007]

mohu leaf metro and regular, and the Channel Master Rabbit point to earlier ClearStream™ 2V.

In fact, I just saw a bunch of links that I didn't see before. Sorry, I'm going to go back through and check those out now.

[garek007]

I would add that I've had the most luck getting CBS and ABC with my Winegard Flatwave FL5000

[garek007]

Hey guys, I don't know why I didn't notice rabbit73's links before. Maybe because I was on my phone. I'm going to try an attenuator and perhaps that C2V antenna one more time. First I'll try the attenuator, if that doesn't work, I'll try the C2V again. I'll keep you posted!

[rabbit73]

What tuner do you want to buy that you think will help?

Try FM filter first.

[rabbit73]

From reading this thread it seems that you think a "tuner" will somehow improve your reception. Are you thinking that the tuner built into your TV set is inferior to having a separate external tuner? It looks like you have a good signal on NBC on real channel 40 so I don't think you have a tuner problem.The file name for his good signal image is wrong. That isn't NBC, it's Fox KSWB.

http://www.rabbitears.info/market.php?request=station_search&callsign=KSWB

[garek007]

I just picked this up. I had already purchased it. It's also a DVR. http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00MXUDD0O/ref=as_li_tl?ie=UTF8&camp=211189&creative=373489&creativeASIN=B00MXUDD0O&link_code=as3&tag=cutcabtod-20&linkId=SLHWRCQZYCWL6FA7

But I am going to get the Attenuator also. Is that the same as the FM filter?

[rabbit73]

I just picked this up. I had already purchased it. It's also a DVR.Good. Please let us know on this same thread how your new Tablo DVR does with antenna signals.

I wonder if the Tablo has a signal strength indicator.

But I am going to get the Attenuator also. Is that the same as the FM filter?No. The attenuator is to see if all of your signals are too strong to the point that they might be overloading the tuner. The FM filter makes the FM signals that also come in on your antenna weaker because they might be causing interference to the TV signals.

I'm first suggesting inexpensive tests for you to do that might help.

[garek007]

Ok update time. Tablo = garbage. Expensive garbage. I'm taking it back. I could not get my network to detect it using an ethernet cable OR a wifi connection. In the documentation they talk about a router which I don't have, but I thought I should be able to connect it directly to my ATT gateway. My network did see it, but couldn't connect. Beyond that, apparently, it's very picky about which hard drives it will accept (you need an external hard drive to use it).

So that's out. The FM filter did not seem to have an affect, nor did the attenuator (I used a 2-way splitter, not sure if it was 3.5 dB or not, it didn't say).

I did put my indoor antenna on the patio and holy crap! CBS came in better than ever. So I think you are all right, it's a positioning, and/or antenna thing. The Winegard Flatwave really is a great antenna so I'm going to try to make this work with it. The thing I liked about the Tablo was in theory I could position all of that equipment anywhere, out of site, and stream it to my chromecast, BUT that's out since I can't even connect.

I'm going to either go with a Tivo, or the Channel Master

http://www.channelmaster.com/DVR_Plus_p/cm-7500gb16.htm

[rickbb]

My daughter has a Tablo, worked great for a couple of weeks. Now all they get is a weak or no signal to stream from the antenna message.

I ran the antenna directly into the TV beside the Tablo and got all 53 channels no problem, even the 80 mile away channels that people think we're not able to get.

Connected it back to the Tablo, nothing, zip.

It is a pain to get working on the internal network, you need to download an app. it must be on the inside, subnet as in the same WiFi network as all your devices. They control theirs with a iPhone app and stream the OTA signals to Roku boxes at the different TV's. (You have to add the Tablo app to the Roku box.)

Or at least they did, I will be trying to get theirs back running tonight.

[garek007]

my point exactly, it's just not worth it to me to spend that much time dealing with it. It's brand new. I'll just take it back and try something else.

[rabbit73]

I did put my indoor antenna on the patio and holy crap! CBS came in better than ever. So I think you are all right, it's a positioning, and/or antenna thing. The Winegard Flatwave really is a great antenna so I'm going to try to make this work with it.Thanks for the good news; you are on the right track.
The thing I liked about the Tablo was in theory I could position all of that equipment anywhere, out of site, and stream it to my chromecast, BUT that's out since I can't even connect.Yeah, best to keep the system simple for reliability, and to make it easy to use for you and anyone else in the household.

[garek007]

Thanks for all the help Rabbit. And to answer your question, if we go cable, yes my girlfriend will pay half ;)

[rabbit73]

You are welcome; glad I could help a little with your problem.

Good luck.

Best regards,
rabbit