WCBS Where did it go?

[togapete]

Up until 1 week ago I was getting wcbs in 3 locations since the country converted to digital tv signal transmission.

I am using a Winegard 8200u roof mounted (35ft off the ground) antenna with a 8700 preamp, all RU6 cable, all compression connections, 2 way splitter located in the attic about 20 feet from the antenna and antenna router. Set top digital converter boxes 2 different brands Zinwell on closest TV and Suncast on the farthest TV.

By using my antenna rotor, It was possible to pull it in Channel 2 from both New York city and Connecticut on my farthest TV (located about 70 feet away of RU6 cable from the antenna splitter.

For some unknown reason I was never able to get WCBS on my "closest TV to the antenna" (about 20 feet away from the splitter).

Although it was quite common to lose the signal or experience pixelation and occasional freeze up and very short periods of a blank screen.

I am unable to receive WCBS's signal from either location for the past seven days. All the other stations Lve been getting are just as strong as they ever were (as per the strength meter on the converter box) are being received as well as they always have been.

I live in Farmingville (11738-1139) WCBS is tramsmitted from the Empire State buiding in NYC.

I don't understand what happened.

http://www.tvfool.com/?option=com_wrapper&Itemid=29&q=id%3d8d17fcaf52fd39

Did they stop transmitting?

Any ideas/suggestions would certainly be appreciated.
Thanks

[John Candle]

As the other question askers do , Do This--> http://forum.tvfool.com/showthread.php?t=4 Post a tvfool radar report. Inter in the antenna height.

[Andy]

I don't think trees are leaving out that much yet so that far north. Trees in the vicinity may have finally grown enough to block signal.

Call the station and ask if the power of the transmission has been decreased or direction has changed. If it was already pixelated a small change by them would finish it off.

Or it could be a long term weather pattern in your area seeing as it's only been a week.

[togapete]

You are, correct trees are not open yet.
I tried to call but was not able to find a phone number that was of use.
Thanks for your response.

[GroundUrMast]

That you have had problems receiving WCBS historically is not surprising. With your antenna aimed west (275° compass) you are pointing at both the real channel 33 transmitter on the ESB and the channel 22 translator.

According to you TVF report, WFSB is delivering a conflicting signal just 3 dB lower in power to your location on the same real channel. (Strong co-channel interference)

WLIW on real channel 21 is transmitted from the ESB also. Their signal is arriving in your area 12 dB stronger than the signal from the channel 22 translator. (Significant to strong adjacent channel interference)

In both cases you have quite a challenge. I think reception of real channel 33 would be the project most likely to succeed. Success depends on the antenna system rejecting the signal from 25° compass - and - getting lucky by not having some of the WFSB signal bounce off something in front of your antenna and therefore manage to 'get in the front door'.

For all we know, a new building has just gone up a few miles away and is acting as a reflector... just speculation.

Are you willing to consider building a stacked antenna array dedicated to CH-33, with the goal of achieving a precise null in the direction of WFSB? If you're not sure, take a look at this information (http://forum.tvfool.com/showthread.php?t=1024). (Yes, you could spend money time and effort, and not be sure of success.)

[John Candle]

Read and understand this about , Real Digital Tv Channels , Virtual Digital Tv Channels , Analog Tv Channels , http://forum.tvfool.com/showthread.php?t=695

[John Candle]

GUM is correct. And I say what a mess.

[ADTech]

Trees begin their seasonal disruption of signals in late winter, as soon as the sap starts rising back up through the trunk and into the limbs and twigs. Once the leaves come out, it only gets worse.

It's the water content held in the tree that has the adverse effects on the signals.

[No static at all]

I would first try raising/lowering the 8200 in 6 inch increments. If that doesn't bring in CBS, you may need to augment UHF with a stronger/more dierctional antenna like the 91-XG. Since you were getting CBS before, I think this is worth a try.

[togapete]

I would first try raising/lowering the 8200 in 6 inch increments. If that doesn't bring in CBS, you may need to augment UHF with a stronger/more dierctional antenna like the 91-XG. Since you were getting CBS before, I think this is worth a try.

Hey thanks for the suggestion. I originally considered the (91-XG) antenna as a possibility. I was wondering what others thought.

Does anyone else feel that has a high possibility of success?

The idea of antenna stacking would probably create too much of an eye-sore and the added weight would probably be too much for the rotor.

[togapete]

Thanks for the response. I have seen some new tall buildings go along the 495 expressway very recently.
With my luck this certainly could be but what I found crazy is that channel 3 from Connecticut failed to come in too.

[togapete]

Thanks for your lengthy and thorough reply. It makes a lot of sense but still leaves me confused as to why I lost the ability to pull in channel 3 from Connecticut too.

[togapete]

My antenna is as high as I can safely place it. Do you think that lowering it can help?
I always thought that the idea was to get as much height on an antenna as possible.

[GroundUrMast]

The idea of antenna stacking would probably create too much of an eye-sore and the added weight would probably be too much for the rotor. Only you are qualified to judge that. The dedicated stack would not mount on a rotator. It would need to have a fixed aim and would likely be optimized for receiving only one station.


I would first try raising/lowering the 8200 in 6 inch increments. If that doesn't bring in CBS, you may need to augment UHF with a stronger/more dierctional antenna like the 91-XG. Since you were getting CBS before, I think this is worth a try.

I agree, particularly now that the stacking solution is not on the table, or at least, is a last resort.

...confused as to why I lost the ability to pull in channel 3 from Connecticut too...WFSB will interfere with WCBS and vice versa. Co-channel interference when signal strength is so closely matched, would be expected to make reception of either signal difficult. That you have seen reception is actually a bit surprising, but speaks well of the 8200u's performance. (Both stations are transmitting on real channel 33. Be sure you are not confused by the virtual channel numbers.)

[Andy]

Wow, Farmingville is a nice place to live. I road the train to the very end of Long Island once, loved it.

How many years has this setup been up? You are between two salty bodies of water, double check connections, especially since you use a rotor. But for me I would do that second to last, along with lowering and/or realigning (you are using a rotor). The last thing I would do would be to swap out or add new antennas.

Also, even though you use a pre-amp go buy one of those $25 - $30 dollar 18 dB amps in the Walmart/Costco/KMart TV accessory department and amp before you split. That's what I had to do before I could get WKSO PBS (before I split the signal I didn't need an amp).

Remember, it's just a quick trip to the discounter and you can take it right back if it don't work, which it may not because your biggest problem may be (at least one of) your converter boxes. To check that borrow one of your friends newer 32" TVs, they are light to carry around, preferably a Sony or major brand. With the borrowed TV check signals both amplified and plain. Do you neighbors use antennas & get WCBS?

Also you said your Zinwell converter box never could pick up WCBS. That is very telling. The engineering the SW & HW guys put in to tuning and locking onto the strongest signal, even when there is noise, is very important.

I'm not telling you to go buy a new TV, but breaking your system into components and trouble-shooting the easiest to the most difficult.

See this explaination for the Sony brand of (TV) tuner:

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=1110510

So if you ever get a channel on the Suncast tuner but not the Zinwell tuner again try switching them out. It sounds like the Suncast is better engineered than the Zinwell. But try the cheap amplifier you can buy & return easily and borrowing a smaller newer HD-TV.

[Andy]

P.S. The Samsung we have seems to tune slightly better than the Sony. If it's your converter box tuner, well tuners and/or TVs aren't cheap but looking at the cost of some of these antennas and doing all you need to replace them, althougher cheaper, they ain't cheap either.

[GroundUrMast]

...double check connections...Always good advise.

...even though you use a pre-amp go buy one of those $25 - $30 dollar 18 dB amps in the Walmart/Costco/KMart TV accessory department and amp before you split...Bad advise more than 90% of the time. Rule of thumb: One amp can be too many, two amps are too many. The 19dB of gain (UHF) provided by the existing 8700 is more than needed. Adding a second amplifier will introduce more noise and the second amplifier will almost certainly be driven to overload by the high output of the existing amplifier. The predicted result, all signals will be degraded, likely to the point of being unwatchable.

Post 1514 (http://forum.tvfool.com/showthread.php?t=1514)

[Andy]

True but for $25 and an easy return at Walmart it worked for me.

I think the best thing for him to do would be to borrow a small high-end HD-TV and visit some of his neighbors with antennas.



P.S. I neglected to say when you hook up the amplifier, unplug the pre-amp. In affect, the cabling becomes part of the antenna although it wasn't designed to be and of course is mostly sheilded against it. But I know from my work in telecom, shielded cables are still influenced by inductance. Sorry.

[John Candle]

More bad advice from Andy. Andy is determined to undo every thing and all of the correct answers we provide here at tvfool.

[Andy]

No that is good advice.

Very quick to test and verify too.

[Dave Loudin]

Depends on what you mean by unplug. If you simply mean unplug the power cord, then that is extremely bad advice. In most, if not all cases, the un-powered preamp passes almost NO signal, so it is worse than having no preamp at all.

Please remember that you are in a signal-poor area, and what has worked for you is not generally applicable.

[No static at all]

My antenna is as high as I can safely place it. Do you think that lowering it can help?
I always thought that the idea was to get as much height on an antenna as possible.Generally spreaking higher is better, but finding the sweet spot for the desired station(s) often requires tweaking the final height a few inches up, & many times down 6 or so inches from my experiences. I've seen this happen even with strong UHF signals less than 10 miles away.

[GroundUrMast]

If you decide to invest in an XG91, I would not take the 8200u down right away. Instead, I would search for a mounting location with a good view of the ESB (WCBS) while shielded from WFSB (perhaps by the structure of your house).

If that proved unsuccessful, try for the opposite, look for WFSB while shielded from the ESB WCBS signal.

In either case, I would not put a preamp or distribution amplifier on the XG91 while it's dedicated to reception of one of the real channel 33 transmissions.

Your location requires some extraordinary effort to get reliable reception of a CBS affiliate. You may find it necessary to have one antenna dedicated to reception of just one or just a few stations, plus the general use antenna.

Of course you can try using the XG91 as a replacement for the 8200u... but the 8200u is up there working well on other channels at this point and the XG91 will not provide CH-2 to 13 coverage either.

[togapete]

I decided to replace my attic cable run RG-6 with RG-6 Quad that had factory
ends in the closest precut size to my need ( 25'). I am happy to report a major improvment in the quality of all the channels. Even channel 2 is a little better
but it still pixilates freezes and blanks out at random time.

I found that if I aim the antenna toward Connecticut, I am able to get a stable wcbs channel signal. This was not possible during the past 2 weeks.


My next move is to replace the antenna run RG-6 with RG-6 Quad from the preamp on the antenna to the amp /splitter area about 40' feet away.

I'll post my results.

In closing ...I'd like to thank everyone for their suggestions.