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MichiganMatt
31-Dec-2014, 5:39 PM
Hi Everyone,

Like so many others, below the line fees on my cable bill put me over the top and I have decided to pull the plug on Cable TV. I don’t watch any sports, and WOW my Cable Provider added a $2/month Sports Fee to my bill that is below the line that hit my bill immediately in addition to a $12 bundle price increase and a $5.75 broadcast fee. The sports one really gets me because I don’t watch any sports and there is no way to get rid of the sports. I know the fees and price increases are not going away. I analyzed my family’s TV habits and 60% of what we watch is on broadcast. Most of what is remaining we can do without and I think we will try a Netflix plan.

I have spent quite a bit of time researching Antennas and how to ask for help. I think I have a good plan; I just want to run it past others to make sure it sounds good and I am not missing anything or making any mistakes in my planning.

TV Fool Report:
http://www.tvfool.com/?option=com_wrapper&Itemid=29&q=id%3dd243717c69c99f

Antenna / Wiring / Amp Plan:
Antennas Direct DB8e – To go in my attic, mostly for aesthetic reasons (wife) and I really don’t like being up high outside on a ladder
1 Bay will be pointed at 14 Degrees to get everything due North and include WADL at 34 Degrees
1 Bay will be pointed at 89 Degrees to get 2 Stations out of Canada, CBET and CICO
I have a big spool of RG6-Quad that I will use to run from attic to my basement, I estimate that it will be about 45’ of length from attic to basement. I will put Compression connectors on each end of the cable. I also already have the compression tool as well as the correct connectors. Once it gets to the basement, I will split it using a 4 port Drop Amp I already have, Electroline EDA-2400 that adds 7dB per line.
From the Drop Amp, it will go to 1 Plasma TV, 1 HD HomeRun on the network, 1 PCI-e WinTV-HVR-2250 and 1 Digital Converter Box.

Other Concerns / Thoughts:
WJBK (Fox) is on real channel 7 VHF and CBET (CBC) is on real channel 9 VHF, I know that DB8e is a UHV antenna but I am hoping since the signal is strong for both channels, I will be able to pull it in. I also thought about getting a VHF add on Antennas Direct VHF-1 VHF Retrofit Kit and add 1 to each Bay.
My neighbor’s house is directly beside me to the North with probably 18 feet between us. My house sits closer to the road than his so I am going to install in reasonably high spot in the attic, towards the road so I avoid going through his house as much as possible
I know the DB8e is probably overkill but I would rather spend more up front and have a very solid setup in the attic rather than saving some money and putting it outside. I’ve got $200 budgeted for this setup so that definitely covers me with some leftover
Anyone think I have a chance of getting CIII-DT channel 22 out of Canada? I think it would be cool to be the only person in my neighborhood watching the nightly news from Toronto :D

My wife is skeptical so I want to get it right from the beginning. Any additional thoughts or suggestions would be greatly appreciated.
timgr
31-Dec-2014, 5:48 PM
You should be aware: effectiveness of an attic installation is difficult to predict. There are too many unknowns, in the material of the roof and structure, trees and buildings and other obstructions on the other side of the roof, and conductive and/or noisy wires, pipes, chimneys, etc. that are part of the building. Antennas are designed to function in free air, and you can change their electrical characteristics by placing them in other environments. Some building materials are more transparent to signals than others. Stucco, for example, contains wire mesh typically and is basically opaque to TV signals.

That said, you have a lot of signal in the air, and the attic installation should be ok... as long as there are no obstructions etc. and your building materials are sufficiently radiotransparent.

IMO the DB8e is not overkill for an attic installation, if you have the room to install and aim it... especially since you are unwilling to experiment. Realize the panels area is ca 4' square.

The DB8e is not deaf to VHF, but its also not designed to be sensitive to those wavelengths. VHF wavelengths are longer than UHF, and the long yagi type antenna is the more practical design for them. You are also reducing overall sensitivity of the DB8e by splaying the panels and putting it under your roof. Why not add a dedicated VHF antenna for those channels? Try it, then add a Antennacraft Y5713 or Y10713 if needed.

You want to DX for CIII ... an attic install puts you at a significant handicap. Very unlikely with a single panel from the DB8e. Both panels aimed at 106 and on the roof, probably.
MichiganMatt
31-Dec-2014, 6:23 PM
Timgr, I should have added that the construction of my house is 2x4 with Vinyl on sides above the 1st story. The roof is builder standard asphalt shingles. There is no insulation on the roof / inside walls of attic. There is house wrap underneath the vinyl but it's just the Lowes plastic type.

As for the size, there is one section of the attic that is huge, I can stand up in it and there are no vertical supports in that section, it's almost like an extra room up there in that space. I figured the CIII was really a long shot, but just dreaming.

I have money in the budget for VHF antenna so I would probably get 2 Antennacraft Y5713 and put one on the top of each panel.

Take a look at the attached image I just made. Is that how I could connect them with a 2 way combiner? CHANNEL PLUS 2512 DC + IR Passing 2-Way Splitter/Combiner (Just found it on Amazon as a 'also bought with Antennacraft)
http://s15.postimg.org/l6h3zxqnv/Untitled.png
timgr
31-Dec-2014, 7:24 PM
Timgr, I should have added that the construction of my house is 2x4 with Vinyl on sides above the 1st story. The roof is builder standard asphalt shingles. There is no insulation on the roof / inside walls of attic. There is house wrap underneath the vinyl but it's just the Lowes plastic type.

As for the size, there is one section of the attic that is huge, I can stand up in it and there are no vertical supports in that section, it's almost like an extra room up there in that space. I figured the CIII was really a long shot, but just dreaming.

I have money in the budget for VHF antenna so I would probably get 2 Antennacraft Y5713 and put one on the top of each panel.

Doesn't work that way. The DB8e can splay the panels and pick up two directions at lower sensitivity but it's designed so that the signals from the two panels will combine without destructive interference. You can't do that with two yagis, or two dipoles like the add-on kit. You can stack yagis (google "stacked yagi antennas") but they must point in the same direction and the distance between them is more-or-less fixed. If you need more poop than the Y5713, get the Y10713 instead.


Take a look at the attached image I just made. Is that how I could connect them with a 2 way combiner? CHANNEL PLUS 2512 DC + IR Passing 2-Way Splitter/Combiner (Just found it on Amazon as a 'also bought with Antennacraft)
http://s15.postimg.org/l6h3zxqnv/Untitled.png

(pic won't embed)

http://s15.postimg.org/l6h3zxqnv/Untitled.png

Don't do that.

The DB8e has its own combiner. Use a single VHF high antenna and combine it with the DB8e signal after the two panels have been combined. Use a UVSJ or a preamp designed for combining VHF and UHF signals. These components contain filters on the respective inputs that eliminate the unwanted out-of-band signals. You can combine pure UHF and pure VHF into one stream and they will not interfere, but you cannot naively combine 2 UHF or 2 VHF streams.

UVSJ: http://www.solidsignal.com/pview.asp?p=uvsj
Preamp (example): http://www.amazon.com/RCA-TVPRAMP1R-Preamplifier-Performance-Enhancement/dp/B003P92D9Y

Here is my rooftop config with a DB8e and a Y10713. The Antennacraft 10G221 preamp on the mast combines the signal from both panels of the DB8e and the signal from the Y10713.

http://nmr.mgh.harvard.edu/~reese/antenna.jpg
timgr
31-Dec-2014, 9:13 PM
Found your amp. 3 dB noise figure.

If you need more signal amplitude, you could put the amplifier at the mast, before cable loss. Then use a passive splitter on the amplified signal to service multiple TVs. This would be particularly effective if you wanted to combine signal from a VHF and UHF antenna, since there are many such amps with VHF and UHF inputs.
timgr
1-Jan-2015, 1:32 PM
Another comment -

You _can_ have two VHF antennas and point them in different directions. Buy a second Homerun HD and connect the second antenna to it. Or use an A/B switch to go between the two antennas. The two antennas must be widely separated in space so they are not electrically coupled.
MichiganMatt
3-Jan-2015, 2:33 AM
I really like the HDHomeRun Idea on a second antenna. CBC was mostly for Kids TV Shows so those would be recoded on the PVR and we can watch it live through the PVR if we really want too without the difficulty of Yagi Stacking.

Thank you again for all of your suggestions.