Stealth antenna options

[William P]

I got rid of my cable provider and tried rabbit ears (Radio Shack VHF, UHF) and got almost nothing until I touched both ends of the antenna to a window frame. Now I get about a dozen stations.
During a recent home improvement it was found that my home has foil backed sheetrock. I've also always had lousy FM stereo reception in this house. Due to having a condo association to deal with my options seem to be an attic antenna, or an unobtrusive outside antenna. It seems the wiring and I assume grounding requirements of an attic setup would be simpler. Being near the east coast most stations are either north , or south of me. 12 feet would probably be my maximum height.

[William P]

It seems I've failed to provide a good attachment. My zip code is 33328. Flat terrain and no nearby buildings.

[William P]

2nd try with attachment.

[emartz91]

Aim at 155 degrees magnetic. Southeast.

A clearstream 2-V would work well or a db2 and vhf kit.

If inside the building, aim through a window toward towers.

No amplification reqired, many strong green signals. Only use it if you have many tv's

You will receive many channels!

Your TVFOOL plot looks similar to mine when it comes to signal strength.

[William P]

Thanks for the reply. The problem with aiming at the many southern stations is that many of them are in Spanish which I don't speak. I would like to get stations from the north also where English is the major language. I need to get above my foil lined sheet rock and I think I want an omni, or multi directional solution. No windows in my attic, and I have a hip roof so no gable ends to attach a pole to.

[William P]

Since my signals are coming from 2 almost opposite directions could I combine 2 directional antennas. I'm a total newbie so please be clear about what would be required to do this if it's possible.

[emartz91]

Larger antenna aimed at 10 degrees magnetic. One that is directional but still a wide beam width. You would pick up all stations in green and maybe some yellow ones. The back of antenna will provide sufficient gain for south group in green. The attic is an unpredictable reception environment. Good luck

[Tower Guy]

Also consider an HBU11

[William P]

I like the price on the HBU11. I could afford 2 of those! maybe with a reflector between the back of them? can 2 antennas be connected together?

[William P]

I've been researching 2 antennas and it looks like it would be beyond my abilities. Does one type of antenna pick up signals from behind better than another? I'm thinking about reflector vs. non reflector types.

[teleview]

+=>

Above the Peak of the Roof in such a manner that reception is not , obstructed , impeded , blocked , by the , attic , roof , building , in the directions of , South East , South , South West , North.

Install a , http://www.antennacraft.net.

HBU11K antenna.

Aimed at about 147 degree magnetic compass direction.

---------------------

Here is how to aim antennas.

http://www.kyes.com/antenna/pointing/pointing.html.

Use a Real and actual magnetic compass to aim antenna , do not trust a , cell phone , tablet and etc. compass.

Most Digital Tv's have a Signal Strength Meter and some Digital Tv'
s also have a Signal Quality Meter.

---------------------

--->A antenna system amplifier is Not required.<---

---------------------

If you own the outside wall.

If you own the roof.

( And if as an example of antennas on the outside of the building , if their are any of those small satellite dishes any where on the outside of the building.)

Here is the Federal Antenna Law that says Yes you can install the HBU11K Broadcast Tv antenna on the outside of the building and roof.

http://www.fcc.gov/mb/facts/otard.html.

----------------------

Do not use this antenna recommendation of the HBU11K antenna because it is a small size of antenna , that a small size antenna is the only size antenna that can be installed.

The Federal Antenna Law , Clearly States that a Broadcast Tv Antenna of Any Size can be installed outside so as to have Reliable Reception.

The reason the small HBU11K antenna is recommended for your reception situation is because the Tv Reception is Very Strong Signal Strength.

[Ben Myers]

You might try putting the rabbit ears up in the attic.

[William P]

I intend to crawl up there with a battery powered digital TV I have and see what happens. But no window frames up there. I found a Dual "EZ-HD"bi-directional antenna kit. It's kind of pricey, but still cheaper than never ending cable bills. My roof is wood and shingle so it might work OK.

[StephanieS]

I would think a single antenna option orientated to magnetic 11 degrees for West Palm Beach could work. Miami signals are so strong, a coat hanger could literally receive them. There should be plenty of signal off the rear quarter of a single antenna to get most of, if not all of Miami.

Being orientated to magnetic 11, mount antenna outdoors and with an obstructed view of the horizon if possible.

If I were attempting this, I'd install an Antennacraft HBU22.

How many TVs do you want to provide signal to?

Cheers.


Thanks for the reply. The problem with aiming at the many southern stations is that many of them are in Spanish which I don't speak. I would like to get stations from the north also where English is the major language. I need to get above my foil lined sheet rock and I think I want an omni, or multi directional solution. No windows in my attic, and I have a hip roof so no gable ends to attach a pole to.

[William P]

http://dennysantennaservice.com/image/41125402_scaled_320x208.jpg

[William P]

Reply to StephanieS. I'm looking at the EZ-HD for a small out door mounted antenna. Should pull Palm Beach in OK and it's not reflector type so the back should pick up the Miami stations. I'm researching this as I post here. So I'm kind of "thinking out loud as I go.

[William P]

2 maybe 3 TV's later.

[William P]

HBU-22 in the attic first, and then move it outdoors later if I need to looks like a good option. I don't think it should be necessary though. Thanks for the help.

[StephanieS]

William,

In that configuration, one ANT751 appears to being used for a single channel, while the other works the rest of the band.

You can combine antennas, but it gets tricky. Normally when you see two antennas there are few common scenarios:

1: One for VHF, the other for UHF, antennas combined with a combiner/preamp.
2: One for UHF/VHF band coverage except one single channel, the second antenna for a single channel. This is accomplished by a Channel Master Joinantenna, which is a bandpass filter. It allows all channels through except one - that one channel is what the other antenna is aimed to.
3: One for UHF/VHF coverage, the other for UHF/VHF coverage. Both antennas are separate and feed down to an A/B switch and you toggle between systems.
4: One antenna aimed at specific channel, second antenna is aimed to nullify interfering signal. This is a sophisticated method to combat co-channel interference when you desire a signal that has an interfering source. This isn't really applicable in your case.

There are some more high tech methods of combining, but these are several of the most common.

The point here is that you can't just combine VHF/UHF antennas with another VHF/UHF antenna with just a run of the mill 2 way splitter. You are combining two independent sets of signals which run the great risk of offsetting themselves and creating interference to one another. The result on your TV screen would be no reception or erratic reception.

Your TV with these clashing signals won't be able to lock. Think of it as being blinded by two bright lights and trying to see in front of you.

Seems to me the single antenna option would be the easiest.

Cheers.


http://dennysantennaservice.com/image/41125402_scaled_320x208.jpg

[William P]

In the attic each TV could have it's own antenna.

[StephanieS]

Attic installs are generally not viewed favorably for 1) you are forcing the signals to "punch" through your roof, thus weakening them considerably. 2) Punching through the roof often causes multipath and erratic signal behavior and 3) you antenna is closer to household interference.

All ability to predict reception in an attic goes out the window. You just have to put antenna in there and try. It may be satisfactory, it may not be.


In the attic each TV could have it's own antenna.

[William P]

Am I correct in assuming that an attic install won't require grounding?

[William P]

I'm sure a roof mount would be much better. But with a multitude of strong signals nearby, and my tinfoil sheetrock problem, an attic mount will probably be a good first step.
I have several major home improvement projects going on already just to stay in the good graces of the condo board. This would not be a good time to start a fight with them about an antenna even if I'm within my rights to have one.

[StephanieS]

This is where our members who dislike Homeowners Association Boards will share with you that your right to receive free TV supercedes any boards ability to restrict it.

In 3... 2... 1...

[GroundUrMast]

Am I correct in assuming that an attic install won't require grounding?
The National Electrical Code (Article 810) is usually the basis of local codes in most of the US.

810.15 Grounding. Masts and metal structures supporting
antennas shall be grounded in accordance with 810.21.

(note that no mention of indoor vs outdoor location is made)

810.20 Antenna Discharge Units — Receiving Stations.
(A) Where Required. Each conductor of a lead-in from an
outdoor antenna shall be provided with a listed antenna
discharge unit.
Exception: Where the lead-in conductors are enclosed in a
continuous metallic shield that either is grounded with a
conductor in accordance with 810.21 or is protected by an
antenna discharge unit.
(note that only outdoor antennas are covered by this particular requirement)

So my understanding is, grounding the antenna coax may not be required in the case of an attic mounted antenna, but the NEC appears to require that the metal parts of the antenna support be, regardless of where they are located.

You may also want to be aware of your insurance companies stance on the issue... I presume you want them on your side If you have concerns re. the condo association having a draconian mind-set or attitude.

It sounds like you are already aware of the FCC's OTARD rules, http://www.fcc.gov/guides/over-air-reception-devices-rule