Advice in Eastern NC

[Geezer64]

My Report: http://www.tvfool.com/?option=com_wrapper&Itemid=29&q=id%3de1c65ae3497f1a

While researching different antennas for my set up and location, i was advised by an online retailer that i needed the following antenna & Preamp for my location: Antennacraft HBU33 & RCA TVPRAMP1R Preamplifier. Being that i am handicapped and cannot get to the roof, I purchased these and had a friend install on the roof about 30ft with total cable run to my TiVo at about 40ft.

I am running this antenna into a TiVo Roamio with signal strengths from 58-62 on ABC, and 68-72 on CBS, NBC, and the remaining channels on the chart which are in either the green or yellow category. 13-1, is sporadic at times and I can't seem to hit the sweet spot between 13-1 (ABC, at 351 degrees) and the other channels located at 348 degrees. These are the only channels that i am interested in.

I guess what i would like to know, is this antenna & preamp acceptable for this location. There is a row of Pines about 300-400ft. to the north of my house that stretch from North to about Northwest, and Pines behind the house. Signal strengths look fair being split between four tuners on the Roamio but can I do better?

Thanks guys!

[elmo]

I'd believe that the antenna is easily capable of tuning those channels for you. Given the length and the 4 tuner split, the preamp should be pretty good for the job. Myself, I'd like to check signals with and without and see how it differs. I would expect higher signal strength given your setup. The distance to the pines wouldn't make me think they'd be a major factor. Do you know the exact aim of the antenna? I'm assuming you had the tuner rescan completely once connected too. How about taking the Tivo out of the test and connect direct to the TV and rescan there. Check the signal strengths and see what you get. If you are currently checking signal strength w/in Tivo, you can't exactly compare the two.

My Report: http://www.tvfool.com/?option=com_wrapper&Itemid=29&q=id%3de1c65ae3497f1a

While researching different antennas for my set up and location, i was advised by an online retailer that i needed the following antenna & Preamp for my location: Antennacraft HBU33 & RCA TVPRAMP1R Preamplifier. Being that i am handicapped and cannot get to the roof, I purchased these and had a friend install on the roof about 30ft with total cable run to my TiVo at about 40ft.

I am running this antenna into a TiVo Roamio with signal strengths from 58-62 on ABC, and 68-72 on CBS, NBC, and the remaining channels on the chart which are in either the green or yellow category. 13-1, is sporadic at times and I can't seem to hit the sweet spot between 13-1 (ABC, at 351 degrees) and the other channels located at 348 degrees. These are the only channels that i am interested in.

I guess what i would like to know, is this antenna & preamp acceptable for this location. There is a row of Pines about 300-400ft. to the north of my house that stretch from North to about Northwest, and Pines behind the house. Signal strengths look fair being split between four tuners on the Roamio but can I do better?

Thanks guys!

[Geezer64]

I'd believe that the antenna is easily capable of tuning those channels for you. Given the length and the 4 tuner split, the preamp should be pretty good for the job. Myself, I'd like to check signals with and without and see how it differs. I would expect higher signal strength given your setup. The distance to the pines wouldn't make me think they'd be a major factor. Do you know the exact aim of the antenna? I'm assuming you had the tuner rescan completely once connected too. How about taking the Tivo out of the test and connect direct to the TV and rescan there. Check the signal strengths and see what you get. If you are currently checking signal strength w/in Tivo, you can't exactly compare the two.

Thanks Elmo. Looks like the antenna is pointing about 350 degrees but this is looking at it from ground level since I cannot get on the roof. I have scanned the channels into my TV, which is a Samsung PN60E but it does not indicate signal strengths.

[ADTech]

which is a Samsung PN60E but it does not indicate signal strengths.

Look in the SUPPORT Menu, then Self Diagnosis.

[Geezer64]

Look in the SUPPORT Menu, then Self Diagnosis.

Thank you Sir!! :) Did not know that. I will check when I get home from work this evening and report the difference in signal strengths between the TiVo & TV.

[Geezer64]

Checked all channels with the tv and all except 13.1 & 43.1 maxed out on signal strength. 13.1 was at about 60% and 43.1 about 65-70. Looks like 13.1 is the one that's going to cause the most trouble. It does break up quite often.

[Geezer64]

One thing I do need to clarify though.................

All aiming should be done using Magnetic North and not True North?

[stvcmty]

Checked all channels with the tv and all except 13.1 & 43.1 maxed out on signal strength. 13.1 was at about 60% and 43.1 about 65-70. Looks like 13.1 is the one that's going to cause the most trouble. It does break up quite often.

TV fool’s reception charts are only estimates from a model. Sometimes the real world is different from the model. Other models are available.

If you use rabbit ears, the signal prediction can be a bit different. If you look at http://www.rabbitears.info/contour.php?appid=1294254&map=Y and find your house, it may be in a spot that for whatever reason WVEC is predicted to have less coverage than 2 houses on either side. (looking at 36.31,-76.25 on the rabbit ears Longley-Rice map, the reception of RF13 is quite variable along west main street extension/windlow st. In some houses it should be possible to get WVEC with an indoor antenna, in some yards it is probably hard to get with an outdoor antenna.)

I can think of two options to fix your reception problem of WVEC. The first would be have the antenna you have moved. It may just need more height, it may need to be moved along your roof or moved onto a mast in your yard to find a spot with good reception of WVEC. The second would be to have a channel 13 jointenna and an Y10-7-13 (and possibly a preamp dedicated to the Y10-7-13) added to your current system with the Y10-7-13 mounted in the best possible spot for WVEC.

From the hot/cold spots on the rabbit ears Longley-Rice map, my gut feeling is moving the antenna up above whatever may be shadowing the WVEC signal is all you need. (I know the TV fool says the path is LOS, but the reception described by the OP does not sound LOS.)

[Geezer64]

TV fool’s reception charts are only estimates from a model. Sometimes the real world is different from the model. Other models are available.

If you use rabbit ears, the signal prediction can be a bit different. If you look at http://www.rabbitears.info/contour.php?appid=1294254&map=Y and find your house, it may be in a spot that for whatever reason WVEC is predicted to have less coverage than 2 houses on either side. (looking at 36.31,-76.25 on the rabbit ears Longley-Rice map, the reception of RF13 is quite variable along west main street extension/windlow st. In some houses it should be possible to get WVEC with an indoor antenna, in some yards it is probably hard to get with an outdoor antenna.)

I can think of two options to fix your reception problem of WVEC. The first would be have the antenna you have moved. It may just need more height, it may need to be moved along your roof or moved onto a mast in your yard to find a spot with good reception of WVEC. The second would be to have a channel 13 jointenna and an Y10-7-13 (and possibly a preamp dedicated to the Y10-7-13) added to your current system with the Y10-7-13 mounted in the best possible spot for WVEC.

From the hot/cold spots on the rabbit ears Longley-Rice map, my gut feeling is moving the antenna up above whatever may be shadowing the WVEC signal is all you need. (I know the TV fool says the path is LOS, but the reception described by the OP does not sound LOS.)

Excellent info, Thank you Sir :)

[Geezer64]

My next question would be...........if down the road I split the coax to 2 additional TiVo's using my current configuration, how much signal loss can I expect. One run should be about 20ft. and the other about 50ft.

[GroundUrMast]

Plan on 4 dB loss for a two-way split and 1db for every 17' of RG-6.

In other words, at the the end of the 50' run you would expect the signl to be about 7 dB lower than it was at the input of the splitter.

[Geezer64]

Thanks GroundUrMast :)

With that in mind, what do I need to regain the loss?

[ADTech]

Thanks GroundUrMast :)

With that in mind, what do I need to regain the loss?


If you have sufficient signal available, it's not necessary to "regain" it. However, if necessary insertion loss will cause you to go over budget, then use an appropriate amplifier.

[GroundUrMast]

Agreeing with ADTech...

Consider the fact that virtually all TV tuners include an amplifier that is able to adjust to dynamic signal conditions. They typically have a range that covers many times more loss than we are discussing here. Your TV tuner may have little trouble accommodating the lower signal level.

If you do have problems after inserting the added loss of the splitter and additional coax, the Channel Master CM-3410 distribution amplifier would be my suggestion. Otherwise, I would not be troubled about the relatively small amount of added loss.

:)

[Geezer64]

The signal currently feeds into a 4-Tuner TiVo and not directly to a TV. I know that the TiVo's tuners react differently to signal levels than the TV does. If the loss is noticeable, and I insert the Distribution Amp into the mix, do I remove the RCA TVPRAMP1R Preamplifier currently on the system?

[GroundUrMast]

If you are already running a TVPRAMP1R, I doubt you will need any more amplification. Still, if you add a splitter to your system and then find you truly have low signal levels that cause visible reception problems, I'd try adding the CM-3410 just upstream of the splitter... Leaving the TVPRAMP1R in place.

There are a few cases that call for more than one amplifier in the system. But these situations are not common. Here's a very unusual case... http://forum.tvfool.com/showthread.php?t=13659

[Geezer64]

Thank you :)

[Geezer64]

Just had the HBU33 relocated on the roof and onto a tripod. Went up 10ft more with the mast. Some channels improved but 13.1 did not.

Anyhoo......the person who installed it for me forgot to ground the antenna mast. I am assuming a grounding clamp at the mast with copper grounding wire leading to the service ground entrance would be correct?

He also informed me that the input & output connectors on the RCA Preamp that the coax connects to, both spin in their socket. I suspect the person who did the first installation, over tightened the coax fittings. Can the preamp be taken apart to hopefully correct this or is another preamp a must.

[GroundUrMast]

If you're equipped to do such a repair, you've got nothing to loose but a bit of time and perhaps a few pennies worth of solder. If you have to pay someone to repair the amp, I think it makes better sense to simply replace it.

[Geezer64]

Anyhoo......the person who installed it for me forgot to ground the antenna mast. I am assuming a grounding clamp at the mast with copper grounding wire leading to the service ground entrance would be correct?

GroundUrMast, in regards to grounding from my quote.........

[GroundUrMast]

You're on the right track. A corrosion resistant grounding clamp sized to match your mast, some #10 AWG copper and an appropriate clamp to make the connection at the electrical service takes care of the mast ground. But you will also want to be sure to ground the coax shield... See http://forum.tvfool.com/showthread.php?t=901, post #20

[Geezer64]

Thanks again GroundUrMast. :)

[Geezer64]

Back to my grounding questions..................

On the side of the house closest to the antenna, there is an old ground rod that's been there for years. On the other side of the house closest to where the RG6 goes through the wall, that is where the Service Entrance is.

Can the antenna be grounded to the rod and the grounding block for the coax to the service entrance? That would be two grounding locations quite a distance apart. What's the problem by doing this if any?

[GroundUrMast]

If the ground rod near the antenna is not bonded to the rest of the electrical service grounding system via #6 AWG copper (or heavier), I would not trust it to provided a reliable low resistance connection to the grounding system in your house. A reliable low resistance connection is vital if you want to avoid undesirable or even dangerous voltage differences between items that connect to the grounding system.

If the rod is bonded correctly, it can serve as the mast ground.

The ideal situation is to connect at a common point. This reduces resistance between different sub systems to nearly zero. I think the term grounding tends to make people think that a connection to earth is some sort of 'be all and end all'. The most important thing you are trying to achieve is not a connection to earth, but rather, a low resistance between each 'grounded' object. A connection to earth is an important, but secondary goal.

[Geezer64]

Thank you GroundUrMast, your replies have been most helpful. :)

So, i guess i should run two seperate ground wires to the service entrance. One for the mast and one for the coax.

[GroundUrMast]

That's the ideal method. First, for the superior ability to avoid unintended voltage differences and secondly, both runs can be done using #10 AWG copper, which is much less expensive than #6 AWG. (Ideally, the #10 link from the coax ground block to the electrical service ground would be no more than ten feet long.)