OTA quit working

[bwag32]

tvfool link :http://www.tvfool.com/?option=com_wrapper&Itemid=29&q=id%3de1c6937b486886

Had all my channels last night. Woke this morning and have 0 channels. I have tried all new cables and a new pre amp. What are the chances that this is a bad antenna that is only 45 days old?

[GroundUrMast]

Original Thread: http://forum.tvfool.com/showthread.php?t=14336

Antennas don't fail 'hard' very often... If so, you would likely see an obvious physical defect that would account for the signal loss.

Reception trouble shooting is best started at the antenna... This test, http://forum.tvfool.com/showthread.php?t=13646 is a great place to start, even if you aren't concerned about the question of needing a preamp, the test answers the question of whether the antenna is producing a usable signal.

Two ideas to consider...

Weather may be impacting reception temporarily. Your somewhat weak signal conditions would be more prone to atmospheric conditions impacting them.

The TV tuner may have had it's setup/configuration corrupted... A double rescan may correct that. http://www.soundandvision.com/content/dtv-weak-try-double-rescan

[bwag32]

unhooked the amp and ran a brand new cable from the antenna to the tv. cable was about 25 feet max. the only channel that would come in was abc. any thoughts knowing that? ill try the rescan. its just looking like I am suppose to always pay for tv i guess

[tomfoolery]

What antenna is it? Does it have an external balun? Exposed crossover wires that a bird could have sat on and shorted, or maybe too close to start with and temp changes shorted them?

Do a double rescan yet?

I'm not an antenna expert, but that kind of failure sounds suspicious.

[bwag32]

i have a winegard HD7698P Platinum HD Series Antenna. It doesn't have anything exposed. and it has a little jumper board that connects the uhf/vhf signals in to the balun. it is model CB8269. did the scan and nothing. what is even more weird to me, is without the preamp abc showed up and when I put the preamp on it lost the station

[ADTech]

Sounds like the amplifier died.

[bwag32]

ad you would think that . I took both pre amps to a budies house and hooked them both up to test. He ended up buying one off me because they both added 7 more channels to his line up

[GroundUrMast]

Will you buddy let you test your TV on his antenna?

Are leafs filling out on the trees around you?

[bwag32]

they are a little but nothing that would cause it over night to stop. plus when I moved it to the other side of the house where there are no trees same result. I am going to try his antenna out but not today its getting ready to storm. I don't need to be a lighting rod lol

[bwag32]

also on a side note before someone says it may be the tuner in the tv. I took my 26 inch tv outside and ran a cable direct from the antenna and same result. took same 26 inch tv to buddies and got all the channels. So its nice to know that the most expensive piece as of right now isn't the problem

[GroundUrMast]

On the Winegard HD769X antenna, it's possible for the phasing lines to be installed incorrectly. Also, it's possible for the phasing lines to come in contact with the boom and effectively short out.

http://www.winegard.com/kbase/kb_tip_results.php?tip_num=495

http://www.winegard.com/kbase/upload/proper_phasing.pdf

[teleview]

+=>

Before doing any testing of the antenna.

Run a NEW Continues Length Of Coax from the antenna location direct to 1 Tv.

Do Not connect any amplifiers or splitters.

Here is a Winegard test the antenna video.

www.winegard.com/kbase/show_vid.php?vid_num=1

[bwag32]

They are installed correctly and nothing is touching the boom

[GroundUrMast]

+=>

Before doing any testing of the antenna.

Run a NEW Continues Length Of Coax from the antenna location direct to 1 Tv.

Do Not connect any amplifiers or splitters.

Here is a Winegard test the antenna video.

www.winegard.com/kbase/show_vid.php?vid_num=1

See post # 3 of this thread...

[bwag32]

Already have done this 3 times

[GroundUrMast]

It's starting to sound like you need to contact Winegard for assistance with a warranty exchange.

[Stereocraig]

Use a DMM, or VOM to measure from the flat phasing lines, to the boom.
This should measure infinite.
If not, check the rivet at the rear that goes through the boom and holds the two phasing lines together.

I have had that short out, because the hole was not deburred.

[bwag32]

brand new antenna and the same issue. any clues?

[GroundUrMast]

Let's try to determine if some devise in the house is generating RF interference.

Try turning the power off to everything in the house, except for the TV. Then run the Antenna > short new cable > TV test again.

[bwag32]

ok killed everything at the circuit breaker . ran a brand new 25ft cable to the tv and scanned only got 3 channels. here is a few pictures of what I am dealing with. Keep in mind that on these trees there is the same amount of leaves as when it was working .just tell me I am screwed if that is the case lol

[Stereocraig]

ok killed everything at the circuit breaker . ran a brand new 25ft cable to the tv and scanned only got 3 channels. here is a few pictures of what I am dealing with. Keep in mind that on these trees there is the same amount of leaves as when it was working .just tell me I am screwed if that is the case lol

So, I'm assuming you measured the resistance from the phasing lines to ground as I recommended?

[bwag32]

Have no clue on how or what I need in order to do it

[Stereocraig]

Have no clue on how or what I need in order to do it


You will need some type of ohm, or continuity meter.
Try it w/ and w/o the balun box in place.

[timgr]

A multimeter is a handy thing to have.

http://www.harborfreight.com/7-function-multimeter-98025.html

The meter will measure AC and DC voltage, current, and resistance.

Set it to the highest resistance scale (Ohms, the Omega symbol) and touch the probe ends together. It will read near zero, demonstrating continuity.

Touch the probe ends to the phasing line and ground, and the reading should be near infinite. If the reading goes to zero or a low value you have a short.

There are lots of tutorials on YouTube about how to use a multimeter. It's a very handy thing to have in your tool kit.

[bwag32]

Thank you. I'll look at home depot or Lowe's do I cab do that this weekend

[teleview]

+=>

So what are the 3 channels that are received??

Use the Tv station Call Sign and Real Channel Number and Network to identify.

An example is , WXYZ-TV , Real channel 22 , NBC.

-------------

If the antenna is 100% working.

The coax that is New and goes from the antenna through a open door direct to 1 Tv.

The Tv Tuner is Ok and the ATSC-Digital Broadcast Tv Stations/Channels are scanned for.

Not Cable channels.

Not Analog Broadcast Tv channels.

And the loss of channels happened over night.

And now receiving 3 Tv channels , please identify so the reception situation be better evaluated.


---------------

The first picture shows a tree on the side of the Tv antenna.

The second picture shows some trees that are some distance away.

And both pictures show the antenna is not that high above the ground.

No I Do Not think you are sc*****.

My evaluation is , something is not working correctly.

And will also help to have the antenna higher.

But before installing the antenna higher.

I suspect something is wrong with the Tv.

Test reception with a different Tv.

Be sure and channel scan to the ATSC-Digital Broadcast Tv Channels.

Do the Double Rescan as recommend elsewhere in this thread.

Not Cable Tv channels.

Not Analog Broadcast Tv channels.

Then Reconnect All parts of the preamplifier and scan for channels again.

[bwag32]

As far as testing phaseline to the grounds can I do it to the ground that is ran to the mast


Tele I will try scanning just digital channels

[GroundUrMast]

With the down-lead disconnected, one lead of the ohm meter goes to the antenna boom. the other lead goes to a phase line, then the other. There should be infinite resistance indicated in each case.

This test can be at the time of assembly, before the mast is mounted or grounded, or with the antenna attached to a grounded mast.

[bwag32]

ok so tested and its infinite on all phases. I get the following:

WKRN-abc- real channel27
WSMV-NBC-real channel10

and that is it. when I hooked up either one of my preamp's i get 0 channels so I guess both of those are bad. Antenna is as high as I can get it which is about 40 ft. is there a signal meter that I can hook up to the antenna when im aiming to see the strength? Any other advice would be greatly appreciated.

[bwag32]

will this work to test the signal
http://www.radioshack.com/product/index.jsp?productId=3264941#tabsetBasic

[ADTech]

will this work to test the signal
http://www.radioshack.com/product/index.jsp?productId=3264941#tabsetBasic

No, that's for satellite signals.

[teleview]

+=>

1.
Reception stopped.

2.
The reception path is the same , same amount of leaves and etc. .

3.
The antenna is good.

4.
The coax is a New Continues Length of coax from the antenna to the Tv through a open door or window , direct to 1 Tv.

No splitters , No couplers , No etc.

The Tv is good.

5.
2 bad preamps.

6.
????

[bwag32]

yes that about somes it up. Took the tv to a friends house this morning. No preamp installed and I got 22 channels. brought same tv home and only got the ones I already listed. also bought a new atsc tuner hooked it up and got the same channels. im at a complete loss.

[tomfoolery]

From where I sit, and I'm not an RF expert, it appears that the only thing you haven't replaced is the preamp. With 2-edge signals at your location, it's entirely possible that a working amplifier with a low noise margin may have been just enough to make reception on many channels reliable. An amp isn't a substitute for antenna gain, but I've seen plenty of folks post here that adding an amp added channels, suggesting they were just weak enough at the end of the cable to be unreliable unless a little boost was added.

Since antennas don't normally fail 'hard', to paraphrase GUM, but amplifiers DO, and it's the only thing you haven't tried, that's what I'd try next, if it were me.

Also, your friend may have a different antenna, and definitely is in a different location, so the tests at his house only proves that your TV's are working and correctly set (OTA vs cable, for instance).

You might want to post a Fool report for HIS location, at the elevation above ground of HIS antenna, using the map function to precisely place it, for comparison sake.

But at the end of the day, the amp is the only thing you haven't replaced (unless I missed it in there somewhere), and it's the most likely thing to fail 'hard', and your signals are marginal to start with, so I'd consider that as your next move. And if you do that, get a recommendation here for an amp, as I have learned that a poor amp can do as much damage to the signal by adding noise as it does good by boosting strength. If your going to spend money, spend it well.

[bwag32]

Before all this happened I was able to get 17 channels with out preamp

[bwag32]

Would it be worth getting a signal meter

[ADTech]

Take a photo of what the antenna is looking at and post that. It might offer insight.

A capable signal meter/analyzer will set you back several hundred, at least, if you can find one for sale, then you'd still need to learn to use it.

[bwag32]

Will do as soon as I get home

[teleview]

+=>

7.
In the past.

Was getting 17 channels with no preamp.

8.
Took the Tv to a friends house and got 22 channels.

9.
Most Digital Tv's have a Signal Strength Meter and some Digital Tv's also have a Signal Quality Meter.

10.
Home Depot has 10 foot 6 inch lengths of 1 and 3/8 inch diameter , TOP RAIL , chain link fence , PIPE , that makes good antenna mast , the price is low at about 10 dollars.

11.

For reception to fail 'Hard' , some thing went defective.

The way my thinking works is ,

Has to be some thing that has been replace and the replacement is also defective.

Some thing that has not been replaced yet.

Some thing is still connected that is reducing/stoping the signal.

[bwag32]

here is a picture. this is the same area it has been aiming for the past month or so. Everything was fine until I moved it to try and get fox coming in better.antenna is 40ft up. I have no way to get it any higher

[teleview]

+=>

You say.

"this is the same ---->area<----it has been aiming for the past month or so"

"Everything thing was fine until I moved it to try and get Fox to come in better."

--------------------

I say.

Those trees do not look friendly to reception.

Is a different reception location available that has a more friendly reception path??

And also I am still thinking about defective component or components and devices some where in the system.

And devices and components that need to be removed from the system or do not belong in the system.

[bwag32]

the only thing hooked up right now is a brand new 20ft cable from the antenna directly to the tv. There isn't anywhere else to really put it. I am going to go get a couple of the fence post that you recommended. if I do 3 of those that will get it above the tree line. I just don't know how im going to secure it.

[GroundUrMast]

I have had F connectors loose their ability to make a solid contact to the coax center conductor. The results can vary from intermittent problems to complete failure to connect. A visual inspection of the TV tuner input connector (with a magnifying glass) would be in order.

[bwag32]

What would I be looking for ground?

[bwag32]

ok getting ready to try the pole's frmo home depot. I am using a tripod mount . at what hieght above the roof do I need to use guy wires
?

[GroundUrMast]

I would be looking at the center hole in the connector, where the center conductor of the coax inserts. Are the contacts spread apart to the point were they can not put pressure on the coax center conductor? If not, a slight bend in the coax center conductor may help restore reliable contact when the coax is attached to the F connector.


Generally, when stacking multiple mast sections, use guy wire for each section.

If you are using a single mast section, but it is attached only at the base, you'll need guy wires between the mid point and upper 2/3rds point.

If I have only one 10' mast section with no joints, you don't need guy wire when using wall brackets, chimney mount or tripod (presuming there are about 2' or more between the bottom clamp and upper clamp that grip the mast).

[bwag32]

ok so with the new 10ft 6 inch pole i got more channels. still not all I use to get. I tried doing 2 of the poles and its way to bendy I dont feel safe doing 2 of them. I will just have to settle for what I got. thank you all for you help

[teleview]

+=>

At a time when the wind is not blowing , can Test Reception with more poles.

www.3starinc.com has selection of push up poles and guy wires.