Want to Improve My Reception

[freetvplease]

My TVFool report: http://www.tvfool.com/?option=com_wrapper&Itemid=29&q=id%3d5b94d9e32b7627

My current setup is a HBU44 antenna with a HDP269 preamp that is 25ft from the ground. I've tested all my connections and they are solid. I have one computer connected about 35 foot from the preamp near the antenna. A tv about 50 ft. and the last tv about 60ft. I want to add atleast 1 more tv but it will be about 80ft away. One thing I plan on doing is putting the power injector in the attic and trying to use a splitter in position that will mostly make the final runs to the tvs and computer equal in length.

One thing I'm going to do once I figure out a better antenna/preamp combo is to raise the new setup to 30ft overall in height. My house is situated in an area that is hilly and lots of tree/foliage. I'm not having any big problems except for the occasional plane (especially those single prop buggers) interfering/interrupting my signal.

Having said all this, what would be the recommendation for Antenna and Preamp. Thanks so much,

John

[teleview]

+=>
----
A good plan , put the power supply/power injector in the attic , connected before the splitter in the attic.

[freetvplease]

Thanks Tele, maybe I'm not asking the question properly. Can you recommend a better antenna than the hbu44? The darn trees around here are degrading my signals, not enough to make watching tv a pain but I know I can get more solid signals.

[dmfdmf]

Thanks Tele, maybe I'm not asking the question properly. Can you recommend a better antenna than the hbu44? The darn trees around here are degrading my signals, not enough to make watching tv a pain but I know I can get more solid signals.

That antenna should work at your location so raising it or moving left/right might help but before you do all that work try this. First, all your stations are 2Edge (refracted) signals so you might try tilting up the antenna vertically (up toward the sky) 5-10 degrees. Sometimes you can get a few more dB for refracted signals this way but you'll need to experiment.

Second, I have a similar antenna (an ANT751, so not as large as yours) and I had to add a 24" twin-lead extension to my balun because the wind kept whipping it around and breaking the connection. I was surprised to discover that the extension allowed the wire to drop away from the antenna at 90deg and moved the balun to the J-pole and thus increased my signals about ~10%on UHF or VHF-Hi bands.

Here is my post on the balun story: http://forum.tvfool.com/showpost.php?p=42501&postcount=48

[GroundUrMast]

The HBU-55 would offer a slight improvement in performance over the HBU-44.

The Winegard HD7698P is another option, similar to the HBU-55

A premium option would be the combination of an Antennas Direct DB8E + Antennacraft Y10713 + an RCA TVPRAMP1R.

The 'deluxe premium' option would also include a tower that clears the nearby trees. (Which would likely make the HBU-44 perform like a rock star.)

[teleview]

+=>
----
You can try other antennas such as the , HBU55 or HD7698P.

Do not expect to see a lot of improvement.

-----------

The DB8e would likely provide a improvement of the UHF 14 thru 51 channels.

The Y10-7-13 would likely provide a small improvement of the VHF channels 7 thru 13.

A , RCA TVPRAMP1R preamp , or , Antenna Craft 10G221 preamp.

Can be used to connect and amplify the antennas.

The FM radio interference trap of the preamplifier will be in the , in/on position.

---

However the heavens will not open up and the alpha/omega will not descend on to your reception location , with the above actions alone.

------------------------

The Number 1 action to take is if the HBU44 antenna or any other antenna or antennas can be moved to a location , be it higher antenna height or a different location or a combination of both , so as to avoid the obstructions of the trees and other obstructions to the East.

----------

Here are Antenna Towers that , Light Weight , Aluminum , Lay Over , Towers.

Do antenna installation and adjustments , Standing on the Ground.

The idea is to install a tower that is taller then the trees and other obstructions.

http://www.palcoelectronics.com/pe300.aspx.

----------

Here is a 10 foot roof top tripod antenna mount.

http://www.ronard.com/Tripods%200703/4712.html.

Use the , ronard(4712-50-10)

[dmfdmf]

I forgot to add... rezero your tuner if you haven't done it in a while.

Unplug the antenna from the back of the TV and cap the input with a 75 ohm F-type terminator cap. Scan for channels, it should find zero channels. Plug the antenna back in and rescan. These steps should be repeated for each TV.

[freetvplease]

DMF you taught me a couple things with your reply, thank you. Ground, thank you for the combo suggestions. I have taken notice of those DB8e's and have been very interested in trying one.

Now I have a plan and as I implement each step I'll report back the results and probably more questions. Thank you all,

John

[freetvplease]

So here is my plan of attack to begin with.

1. Reposition the power injector in the attic and split the lines to each tv to be more equal. BTW can someone suggest a good splitter? I think the one I'm using is cheap.

2. Raise my current antenna higher and try the balun mod suggested by dmf. Next question, since the antenna will be 20ft above the roof edge will I need to add another guy wire assembly half way between the roof edge and the one near the top?

3. If those two don't gain me what I'm looking for then I'll try the angle idea dmf suggested before purchasing combo setup Ground suggested.

Along the way I'll be zeroing the scans and rescanning.

Anyway this is my plan atm. Thank you all,
John

[teleview]

+=>
----
You can try other antennas such as the , HBU55 or HD7698P.

Do not expect to see a lot of improvement.

-----------

The DB8e would likely provide a improvement of the UHF 14 thru 51 channels.

The Y10-7-13 would likely provide a small improvement of the VHF channels 7 thru 13.

A , RCA TVPRAMP1R preamp , or , Antenna Craft 10G221 preamp.

Can be used to connect and amplify the antennas.

The FM radio interference trap of the preamplifier will be in the , in/on position.

---

However the heavens will not open up and the alpha/omega will not descend on to your reception location , with the above actions alone.

------------------------

The Number 1 action to take is if the HBU44 antenna or any other antenna or antennas can be moved to a location , be it higher antenna height or a different location or a combination of both , so as to avoid the obstructions of the trees and other obstructions to the East.

----------

Here are Antenna Towers that , Light Weight , Aluminum , Lay Over , Towers.

Do antenna installation and adjustments , Standing on the Ground.

The idea is to install a tower that is taller then the trees and other obstructions.

http://www.palcoelectronics.com/pe300.aspx.

----------

Here is a 10 foot roof top tripod antenna mount.

http://www.ronard.com/Tripods%200703/4712.html.

Use the , ronard(4712-50-10)

--------

Home Depot has 10 foot 6 inch lengths , 1 and 3/8 inch's diameter , TOP RAIL , chain link fence , PIPE , that makes good antenna mast pipe , the price is low at about 10 dollars.

[GroundUrMast]

BTW can someone suggest a good splitter? I think the one I'm using is cheap.
The Ideal brand is stocked at Home Depot and Lowes I've had good success using the units with 1GHz of bandwidth.

http://www.idealindustries.com/products/datacomm/splitters/5mhz_1ghz_splitters.jsp

[freetvplease]

Hello Tele, I was in Home Depot and actually saw those poles. Also thanks for the other info you've provided.

Ground, I also saw that splitter but was confused by the one 4db and two 8db outputs. Why is it configured that way?

John

[GroundUrMast]

If you are referring to the 3-way splitter (#85-133), it is equivalent to two 2-way splitters connected so that one output of the first splitter feeds the input of the second. As a result, the one free port of the first splitter will be 4 dB down in level and the two output ports of the second will be down another 4 dB for a total loss of 8 dB.

As I recall, the 3-way splitter offed by Antennas Direct is a balance design and has equal loss on all three output ports.

I some applications, the low loss on one port may be a slight advantage when feeding a longer run of coax... Though in most cases, it's not going to make any noticeable difference.

[freetvplease]

Hey Ground, I actually understood your explanation and after pondering my setup atm, the Ideal threeway splitter is probably the correct choice using the 4db connection to go to the HTPC which has a dual tv tuner and a single tv tuner requiring another two way split. Then running the other two tv's. Thanks,

John

[freetvplease]

Hey Ground, did you take any pics of the balun mod?

[GroundUrMast]

I'm not sure what you mean... The Ideal model 85-133 is a factory assembled and sealed unit. No mod involved.

I suppose you could use two 2-way splitters, but I wouldn't consider that a mod. I would also discourage that option, due to cost and the added chance for trouble in a connector.

[freetvplease]

I'm sorry ground I meant dmfdmf and post #4.

[dmfdmf]

I'm sorry ground I meant dmfdmf and post #4.

Here is the best I could do, no assembly pics but here is my beautiful ANT751 against the majestic sky collecting HD TV radio waves;
http://imgur.com/nzLCRxi

I used Radio Shack twinlead about 24" and just soldered spade connectors on the end where it attaches to the antenna and soldered it to the balun on the other end. You can see the balun just peaking out from behind the J-pole. I also shrink wrapped every thing to make it secure and CAT5 hurricane rated as it gets really windy on my roof.

From what I understand from reading various websites is that the wire dropping directly way from the boom is the best configuration to maximize reception. It definitely made a difference on my TV even though I did it because of the wind. Good luck, I hope that helps and please report back your results.

[freetvplease]

Thanks dmf. That confirmed what you described and what my mental picture of it was. I like to tweek and experiment.

[freetvplease]

Today I pulled down my main antenna setup. Bought 4 10' top rail chain link fence posts and when I went to put the Guy Wire Ring on the new pole, the ring would not fit. The diameter of the new pole is too large. Does anyone make a Guy Wire setup that will fit these poles?

[teleview]

+=>

Will the Guy Wire Ring fit over the swedged end of the pole??

[freetvplease]

Tele, yes but that will leave about 21' from the eve bracket to the guy wire ring. I found a 40' telescopic pole today locally for $114 that I'm really considering buying. It has the guy rings already built in.

[freetvplease]

I purchased the 40' telescopic pole (at the insistence of my wife) but no one in my neck of the woods has a wall/eve mount that would fit the 2" part of the pole. I purchased one online from Home Depot because their price + free shipping was the least expensive, so now we have to wait. Aaarrrrrgggg!!!

[freetvplease]

I'm curious, I really do want to put a DB8e with a Y10-7-13 on this pole in the future. Reason is I have a smaller version of this (DB4e + Y5-7-13) that picks up everything better than the HBU44 at the previous height of 25ft. So I was wondering if instead of purchasing a Y10, could I use the HBU as my VHF antenna and just add the DB8e using a UVSJ or should I just gang them using a combiner?

[ADTech]

could I use the HBU as my VHF antenna and just add the DB8e using a UVSJ

Yes, you can do that.

[prion]

If you don't have a powered way to rotate your antenna, in my case I had a surprisingly narrow "window" to get all the channels available in my area. I called my wife on the phone, went up on the roof and very slowly started to
rotate the antenna until I could get all the available channels in my area.
It was just a very small turn between getting everything I could, and dropping
2 channels. Just turn quite slowly. I would not have imagined that such a small
change could make that much an effect. I get everything in my area rock solid
now for 2 years, except recently I lost one channel, spent hours trying to get it back, only to find it was on their end shheeesh.

[prion]

I have an HD Stacker antenna that a place called Denny's TV makes. I think the website owner designed it. I got it a couple years ago, so I'd have to look up the details, but it allowed me to get every channel that AntennaWeb said I should get in my area. I tried a couple others and could never get everything
without moving the antenna this "stacker" although sort of difficult to hit "that spot" pointing it did get me all channels AntennaWeb said I should get.

[freetvplease]

Thanks ADT, I wasn't sure but in my mind, why replace the HBU44 when I could re-purpose it and I'm sure it would do the same thing as the Y10-7-13.

Prion, while I do appreciate your input, pointing the antenna is not a problem for me. The HBU simply doesn't have enough gain even with the preamp I have to be able to split the signal anymore. I've proven to myself that if the DB4e with the Y5-7-13 could pick up all the stations with better overall signal even though it is no higher than the HBU and a tree is in the path across the street, then obviously the DB8e/Y10 combo would have even better gain, thus more ability to split. Even at a total of 35-36' with the new pole all my stations are still going to be 2-edge pathways so the bigger and slightly higher setup should help to overcome all that. I think the DB?e's being oriented vertically gives more surface area to catch signals than does the horizontal orientation of the HBU.

While the HBU has done a decent job, I know for a fact the changes I'm making will improve upon it.

[prion]

freetvplease,
This whole OTA thing had so many illogical things for me to do that finally got all the channels I was supposed to get. I actually lowered my antenna about 10ft. to get everything. I know it makes no common sense but when I first put it up I purchased
a 17ft mast that was 10ft. plus another 7-8 you could telescope out. At full length I would miss two channels no matter where I pointed. I lowered to 10 ft. and got everything.
Don't be hesitant to just methodically start trying things even if the aren't logical. It worked for me.

[freetvplease]

Prion, on top of the extra gain I'm seeking I'm actually having fun learning and trying new things. I have 5 Desktop PC's, 2 Laptop's and a Tablet (used to have 2) and 6 TV's and I'm constantly tinkering with them. I'm always fixing and improving my house and vehicles plus boat and travel trailer. You should see all the tools I have man, It's an obsession. Anyway, I understand the illogical things working even though you sit there and go "how in the ?ell".

[prion]

Yeah sounds like we do many of the same things. I restore cars and before I retired I was a sysadmin for a big group of doctors. 200 computers a couple off site offices in
a nearby town, 10 servers, Citrix etc. I got in the habit of always trying stuff no matter how illogical if I hit a wall on a problem. Didn't always help, but enough times to solve the problem or create another bunch of options. I have a home network that streams TV, a WMC box, wireless TV feeds to 4 laptops. I'm always fooling around with something now that I don't work. I'm glad I dumped cable. I get all the TV I need now OTA, YouTube, or PB ( neighborhood kids taught me that one,heh )

[freetvplease]

ADTech, will this item be restocked or is it discontinued? http://www.antennasdirect.com/store/antenna_combiner.html

[ADTech]

Thanks for your interest.

The EU385CF-1S should be back in stock around Mother's Day, give or take a week.

[freetvplease]

ADT, thanks

[freetvplease]

I'm confused with this hbu44. Half the elements aren't connected to the balun. This is a large antenna why would half the elements not be connected to the balun?

[ADTech]

Those are directors or reflectors. They are not supposed to be mechanically attached to the phasing lines (or the balun), only driven elements get that connection.

Your observation is typical. To understand it would require a substantial amount of advanced mathematics and antenna theory.

[freetvplease]

I'm still waiting on my db8e and the wall mount to show up.

[teleview]

+=>

Directors and Reflectors.

The functions are to concentrate more signal on to the elements that are connected to the matching transformer (balun).

The elements are electromagneticly coupled.

[freetvplease]

Update: So after having received the DB8e, the Y10-7-13, the RCA TVPRAMP1R and the wall mount, I installed everything and was surprised at the outcome. I lost several stations and the ones I had were not doing very well even though the antenna setup was done properly. Being exhausted I left everything alone for a couple weeks till I could diagnose the problem.

Then yesterday I lowered the antenna and hooked up the down lead straight to the DB using a test tv at the base of the pole and was pleasantly surprised at the reception it had. Then I took the lead and attached it to the Y10 and again was pleased with the signals it was receiving. Then as I had surmised the culprit was the RCA Amp. I took it off and put my old HDP269 on and HOLY SIGNAL BATMAN! Needless to say I am extremely happy now. All my tv's have more than ample signal to enjoy trouble free reception.

Now instead of putting the Y10 on top I elected to put the DB on top and the Y10 below it. The DB's top is about 38' and the Y10 is about 31'. The one sin I probably made was I didn't have another UVSJ so I used a combiner to join the UHF and VHF antennas before running them into the preamp. So far I can't see any reason to pull it down and fix that.

I just wanted to thank everyone who made the suggestions and helped me out.

John