Need help in MID TN [Archive]

bwag32

19-Mar-2014, 5:46 PM

here is my link :
http://www.tvfool.com/?option=com_wrapper&Itemid=29&q=id%3d5b94937b486886

I have the channel master CM-5016 and am only getting 2.1,4.1,5.1,8.1 and 30.1

I have my antenna pointed at around 17 NNE.

I will be hooking up a RCA TVPRAMP1R this afternoon. Any suggestions on what I can do to get more channels.

I also have a HDB8X at my disposal to use if anyone thinks that would be better than my CM-5016

Thank you for any help

teleview

19-Mar-2014, 7:27 PM

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The CM5016 antenna is designed for local strong signal strength reception.

Your reception location is Weak to Weaker signal strengths in the Yellow and Red reception zones.

Yes install the preamplifier , the preamp will be operated in the Combined antenna mode because only one antenna is connected.

The FM trap of the preamp will be in the , in/on position.

Aim the antenna at about 21 degree magnetic compass direction.

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Remove the CM5016 antenna.

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And Yes also test reception the HDB8X aimed at about 21 degree magnetic compass direction with the preamp connect to the HDB8X and the preamp.

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Here is how to aim antenna , http://www.kyes.com/antenna/pointing/pointing.html.

Use a Real and Actual magnetic compass to aim antenna , do not trust a cell phone compass.

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As always , trees and tree leaves , plants and plant leaves , have a Negative Effect on Broadcast Tv Reception and so do buildings and other obstructions including your own roof and building in the direction of reception , North East.

Some and not all Negative Effects are.

Absorbing and Blocking Reception.

Multi-Path Reflecting Tv Signals Bouncing All Around.

The Best Practice for Reliable Reception is to install the antenna at a location that has the least amount to no amount of obstructions of any type or kind in the direction of reception including your own roof and building in the direction of reception , North East.

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The Tvfool channel list under the word Real , shows the Real channels that are Transmitted and Received.

Under the (virt) is the virtual numbers , virtual numbers are not a real channel , even if the virtual number is the same as the real channel.

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Your reception location has receivable channels in all 3 Tv bands.

VHF low band channels 2 thru 6.

VHF high band channels 7 thru 13.

UHF band channels 14 thru 51.

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The CM5016 antenna is a All Tv band antenna but is to small for the weak channels reception situation.

The preamp will help and might make the Weak channels reliable.

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The HDB8X is a UHF channels design antenna.

WTVF , CBS , is transmitting on , VHF low band channel 5 , and is transmitting on UHF channel 25.

So the HDB8X antenna will receive WTVF Ok.

That leaves , WNPT-DT , VHF high band channel 8 , PBS.

The HDB8X might do Ok at receiving channel 8 , with the preramp installed.

The HDB8X antenna will do good at receiving those Weak signal strength UHF Tv Stations/Channels in the Red reception zone.

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If channel 8 is not received reliably with the HDB8X antenna.

Then install a , www.antennacraft.net , Y10-7-13 , VHF high band channels 7 thru 13 antenna.

The RCA preamp will be operated in the Separate antenna mode.

The HDB8X is connected to the UHF connection of the preamp.

The Y10-7-13 is connected to the VHF connection of the preamp.

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Digital Tuners can develop - Digital Glitches - that are not cleared out with simple channel scans.

To clear tuner do Double Rescan.

www.wchstv.com/DoubleReSacanAlert.pdf

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Here are some places to buy antennas and etc. .

www.amazon.com

www.antennacraft.net

bwag32

19-Mar-2014, 9:55 PM

ok so i tired both and the CM5016 gets 26 channels and the hdb8x only got 7 stations. The one station I really want is 15. it shares the same tower is 23. i get 23 but not 15. should i go to the cm5018 or do you think it would have the same results

teleview

19-Mar-2014, 10:45 PM

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WZTV-DT , Real UHF channel 15 FOX , should be received , no problem.

Did you do the Double Rescan??

Some times a antenna can be in a dead spot for reception of a Tv station channel and moving the antenna up or down can move the antenna out of a dead spot.

And their is the situation that , WZTV , might be off the air because of some type of trouble.

A call to the Tv stations Engineering department will find out if any problems.

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If I were to install a antenna at your location the antenna would be a , www.antennacraft.net , HD1200 All channel antenna.

The advantage of a All Channel Antenna is , if one of the WTVF transmitters , 5 or 25 , is down , then WTVF will still be received.

GroundUrMast

19-Mar-2014, 11:50 PM

Presuming a rescan fails to resolve the problem;

With WTVF operating on real CH-25 I don't see the point of an all channel antenna. I'd step up to a Winegard HD7698P which would pair up with the existing preamp. I'd avoid the all channel antenna, in part to minimize any FM radio reception (and it's resultant interference).

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/WTVF

bwag32

20-Mar-2014, 1:26 AM

GroundUrMast

20-Mar-2014, 2:14 AM

i will try to move the antenna down. its at the top of the mast so cant go up.

Groundurmast- might be a dumb question but the HD7698P looks to have the same specs as far as milage as the CM5016 and doing both uhf/vhf . am i missing something?

Not a dumb question at all.

If you look at the mileage estimate claimed by each manufacture, you would assume the two antennas are very similar. This illustrates why it's important to dig deeper, presuming the mileage claim comes from the advertising department and lacks any standard basis.

When you look at the gain figures from the engineering department, you see the stark difference. The HD7698P has about 8 dB more gain across the UHF band and about 6 dB more gain across the H-VHF (CH-7 - CH-13) band. The 7698 has no intentional L-VHF (CH-2 - CH-6) or FM capability. The HD7698P may be a little more than you need, but it's certainly not overkill. (Antennacraft's competing product is the HBU-55.)

http://support.channelmaster.com/hc/en-us/article_attachments/200088905/CM-5016_5018_5020_Data_Sheet.pdf
http://www.winegarddirect.com/viewitem.asp?p=HD7698P&d=Winegard-HD-7698P-Platinum-Series-High-Definition-VHFUHF-TV-Antenna-%28HD7698P%29&post=

Forget the mileage claims, use standards based gain figures.

bwag32

20-Mar-2014, 2:26 AM

of the hbu55 and the HD7698P is one a better antenna?

GroundUrMast

20-Mar-2014, 2:30 AM

The Winegard gets a slight nod for build quality and durability,,, The price on the Antennacraft product still makes it a good deal, even if it might not last quite as long. (Though as I just checked, I see the Winegard is now the better price.) They're both competing well against each other.

So, I'd go with the Winegard.

bwag32

20-Mar-2014, 2:42 AM

thank you sir just ordered it

bwag32

6-Apr-2014, 6:10 PM

I am using a winegard HD7698p and a rca TVPRAMP1R. I had picture and I added a splitter and now I dont. I have the antenna ran into the preamp from the preamp into the splitter and then splitter into the amp then to the tv. Any clue on why I wouldnt have signal now? I am using a splitter that operates from 5-mhz to 1000 mhz.

ADTech

6-Apr-2014, 6:54 PM

You installed a power-blocking splitter between the amplifier and it's power supply. This cut off operating power to the amplifier and turned it into a brick.

A common enough mistake.

If you must install the splitter somewhere in the cable run between the inserter and the amplifier, you must used a DC pass-thru splitter.

bwag32

6-Apr-2014, 7:01 PM

so what would I look for the splitter to say to make sure its not a power blocking. I cant move the power supply

GroundUrMast

6-Apr-2014, 7:22 PM

Here are power passing splitters that would be appropriate in your application.

http://www.antennasdirect.com/store/splitters.html

teleview

6-Apr-2014, 7:28 PM

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Install a splitter that says power passing , on/through , one output and the input.

or

Install All parts of the preamplifier Before the input of the splitter , The power supply/power injector , before the input of the splitter so the preamp unit can receive power.

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And here are splitters that pass power through the splitter and also prevent power from going back through the splitter out to the Tv locations.

Holland Electronics , HFS-2D , HFS-3D , HFS-4D , buy the HFS splitters at , http://www.hollandelectronics.com , or , http://www.amazon.com.

Stereocraig

6-Apr-2014, 8:05 PM

so what would I look for the splitter to say to make sure its not a power blocking. I cant move the power supply

You don't need to physically move the PSU.
You only need to make sure that there is nothing between the power inserter and the preamp.

Probably a wash between buying a power passing splitter and a different length of coax.

bwag32

6-Apr-2014, 8:25 PM

would this one work?

http://www.homedepot.com/p/Ideal-2-4-GHz-3-Way-Splitter-85-333/202276265

bwag32

6-Apr-2014, 10:19 PM

ok completely lost all signal. I have just the antenna and preamp hooked up. I ran a brand new cable as the other one was ran using connectors to join shorter cables. TV worked fine last night... any ideas?

GroundUrMast

7-Apr-2014, 3:40 AM

would this one work?

http://www.homedepot.com/p/Ideal-2-4-GHz-3-Way-Splitter-85-333/202276265

Maybe, but only if the other tuners present an open circuit at DC, not something I would count on. It's best to use a splitter that has power passing on only one port.

ADTech

7-Apr-2014, 10:23 AM

That particular Ideal splitter will work fine. There is an internal diode in each output leg of the splitter to prevent back-feeding unwanted circuits. This allows ANY of the splitter outputs to accept power and route it to the common port and on to the pre-amp.

any ideas?

My guess is that the particular splitter you used may have shorted out the power supply and it has now failed internally. However, since you also replaced the coaxial cable, it is suspect until proven otherwise. Therefore, remove the amplifier and the power inserter and test for any reception using only the cable and the antenna.

teleview

7-Apr-2014, 3:26 PM

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Test reception without the preamplifier.

Disconnect and remove All parts of the preamplifier.

Disconnect and remove the preamp unit.

Disconnect and remove the , power injector and power supply.

bwag32

12-Apr-2014, 10:49 PM

here is my tv fool
http://www.tvfool.com/?option=com_wrapper&Itemid=29&q=id%3d5b94937b486886

I have a winegard hd7698P with an RC preamp. fox 17 is the only channel that i am not getting. Its on the same tower as 58 and 30. Any ideas on what I can do ?

Lewis

12-Apr-2014, 11:06 PM

WZTV I had a glimpse of it again last night after the storms passed through but can't pull it in 24/7 here as is.

GroundUrMast

12-Apr-2014, 11:12 PM

I'd try alternate antenna mounting locations and elevations.

If that fails, I'd consider opting for an Antennas Direct DB8E + Antennacraft Y10713. The RCA TVPRAMP1R has separate inputs for the two antennas.

bwag32

13-Apr-2014, 12:06 AM

problem is it was working before I added a splitter. The splitter is after the preamp and power.. could that make that big a difference?

dmfdmf

13-Apr-2014, 2:11 AM

problem is it was working before I added a splitter. The splitter is after the preamp and power.. could that make that big a difference?

So you split the signal to a second TV or for input to a DVR or other media device and it knocked out a weak station?

Yes, splitters cut the signal at least 50%-60% and probably pushed the Fox signal below acceptable levels. Does the splitter you used list the loss per leg in dB? Typical values are -3.4dB, -3.7dB, -4.0dB, etc. which corresponds to 54.3%, 57.3% and 60.2% loss. If the splitter doesn't list the loss then you have to assume its not a very efficient splitter. I'd buy a splitter that explicitly states its loss as -3.4 dB per leg (that is the best I have seen).

That might be enough to get your signal back up but if it doesn't work you'll need to find and remove additional losses in your system such as using coax couplers to join cables (-0.5 dB loss) or replacing RG59 cable with RG6 cable, etc. You could also re-aim your antenna and you should definitely re-zero your TV tuner and rescan.

bwag32

13-Apr-2014, 2:48 AM

the splitter is -3.4db and I am already running rg6. Ive re-amied my antenna and rescanned the tv. any other suggestions other than unhooking the splitter

dmfdmf

13-Apr-2014, 5:11 AM

the splitter is -3.4db and I am already running rg6. Ive re-amied my antenna and rescanned the tv. any other suggestions other than unhooking the splitter

Why did you split the cable?

Re-Zero the tuner?

Does Fox come it at all or completely gone after the split?

Long shot, but try a different splitter in case the one you have is defective.

If there are no other losses in the system that you can easily remove then you'll need more amplification. What is the dB rating of your pre-Amp? How long are these cable runs?

dmfdmf

13-Apr-2014, 5:08 PM

dmfdmf , is asking questions that are in the original posts , this goes to the original posts.

It looks like the thread has been consolidated, thanks teleview.

bwag32, I think you need to slow down and do some troubleshooting per teleview's post #21. Your signal for Fox is weak but not that weak, so your antenna and amplifier system should be fine to drive two TVs. Do you get RCH23/CW or RCH36/ION? These stations are weaker than Fox according to your TV Fool report and if Fox is the only station knocked out by the splitter something weird is going on.

I would start over and rebuild the system one step at a time, retesting along the way to find the cause. If you get Fox at the antenna with no pre-amp and a direct line to one TV with 50ft or less of coax then that is step one to prove you have signal at the antenna to amplify. Everything follows from that.

bwag32

13-Apr-2014, 5:31 PM

It looks like the thread has been consolidated, thanks teleview.

bwag32, I think you need to slow down and do some troubleshooting per teleview's post #21. Your signal for Fox is weak but not that weak, so your antenna and amplifier system should be fine to drive two TVs. Do you get RCH23/CW or RCH36/ION? These stations are weaker than Fox according to your TV Fool report and if Fox is the only station knocked out by the splitter something weird is going on.

I would start over and rebuild the system one step at a time, retesting along the way to find the cause. If you get Fox at the antenna with no pre-amp and a direct line to one TV with 50ft or less of coax then that is step one to prove you have signal at the antenna to amplify. Everything follows from that.

Ive done that all and still no fox. I cant figure it out and I thank everyone for their help just guess I wont be watching fox .. as a side note I have both ion and cw crystal clear.

teleview

14-Apr-2014, 9:17 AM

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All coax is suspect of being defective.

All connectors on the ends of of coax are suspect of being not put on correctly.

All couplers are suspect of being defective.

All splitters are suspect of being defective.

All devices that are connected to the antenna system are suspect of being defective.

All etc. is suspect of being defective.

--------------------------------------------

Digital tuners can develop -Digital Glitches- that are not cleared out with simple channel scans.

To clear tuner do Double Rescan.

http://www.wchstv.com/DoubleReScanAlert.pdf

bwag32

14-Apr-2014, 9:45 PM