TV Reception in Bedford County PA

[WillyV]

It's pretty mountainous in my area at the following report (http://www.tvfool.com/?option=com_wrapper&Itemid=29&q=id%3d46ae396dd786f9) and I need to know if thinking about pulling in any TV channels is worth consideration. I just don't want to throw money away on conventional cable or dish subscriberships. The only other option would be the "free satellite TV" option. Although it's inexpensive compared to entities like the "Dish Network", it might be more than what I'm looking for. I'd appreciate any comments on this matter.

[WillyV]

I'm new to the "Free To Air TV concept." Can anyone out there tell me if this report (http://www.tvfool.com/?option=com_wrapper&Itemid=29&q=id%3d46ae396dd786f9. ) is worth pursuing. My perception is that my location would be on the outermost edge of reception. Since I've never worked with antennas, I'm clueless.

Or, should I try the "Free Satellite TV" approach? I'm really seeking a simplistic approach to receive some basic local channels such as ABC, CBS, NBC or hopefully FOX. I'd really appreciate any comments. Thank you.

[pawoodbutcher]

The first thing the more wise than I will say is that your report is "resolved to street level", meaning it may not be accurate.

Go to the "Online TV Maps" section of the menu on the home page; or link..
http://www.tvfool.com/?option=com_wrapper&Itemid=90

Leave "Address" dot selected.
Enter only your zip code and hit "map this".
Drag the red arrow drop thingy to wherever you live.

Map has all standard Google maps stuff. Zoom in, Zoom out, change to Satellite view, etc.

Give that route a try and see if anything gets better.

[teleview]

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The provided tvool report is the default 10 feet antenna height.

To see if reception signal strengths improve at higher antenna heights please make 3 Tvfool reports at , 25 , 40 , 60 , feet antenna heights.

Please use the Exact address to make the reports.

Do not delete the first Tvfool report that is the default 10 feet above ground antenna height.

If your Exact address does not work to make the Tvfool report then go to the Tvfool home page and click on >>Start MAPS<< , move the pointer to your Exact location , enter the antenna height and click on the , Make Radar Map , button .

[ADTech]

Stick with something from space or via broadband, should you be fortunate enough to have that. No real chance for anything terrestrial.

Teleview usually has info on the FTA sat stuff, he should be around before too long with some details.

[teleview]

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Please make and post the Tvfool reports.

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As to the FTA= Free To Air Satellite Tv , here is a place to start.

www.ftalist.com

www.manhattan-digital.net

[WillyV]

My sincere thanks to these replies! First, I'll try to enter more specific data to see if that might improve my ability to pull in some local channels dispite my mountainous locality. At this point, I wouldn't mind spending 2 - 3 hundred bucks to get some local broadcast stations like WJAC (Johnstown PA).

On the other hand, if free satellite TV wouldn't be too much more expensive, I could see myself going in that direction since it would ensure reception.

Are the start up cost for a basic set up comparable for both free to air and free satellite approaches? $200 to ?

While on that track, when free satellite stations "come and go," does that mean that a new receiver is needed to pick up the station? If so, that could be a drag. Or, is it sort of like short wave listening in that you just need to know its location and then tune to the new frequency?

I've also noticed that free satellite listings include ABC, CBS, NBC and FOX broadcasts. Could you explain what sort of programing this includes? Is it news only? Just sort of curious. Finally, generally speaking, is one satellite receiver sufficient?

I really appreciate all this feedback.

[teleview]

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I do not give up and say broadcast Tv can not be received without having the facts , the Tvfool reports.

The Broadcast Tvfool reports please .

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The following information is FTA satellite reception information.

Networks and other Tv and Radio providers use FTA as , A Way , to deliver Programing for several reasons , one reason is it can be less money then using the , scrambled service providers.

FTA satellite service is not scrambled , but does require a receiver that receives FTA.

Another reason is FTA service providers can transmit , on short notice.

Another reason is the Networks and other programs Tv and Radio programs want you to receive the Programing for Free.

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-->No<-- FTA is not like short wave radio or long wave radio with the signal being strong and then fading out and then back strong again.

The Programing provider / Network can use the FTA service and then stop using the service. That is why the services can come and go.

PBS uses the FTA service All the time.

And some other Programing Tv shows and Networks and audio only (radio) , use FTA all the time.

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Countries around the world use FTA because it cost less then singing up with scrambled service providers.

It is a mixed bag of reasons for using FTA.

Receiving FTA satelite services can be likened to an adventure , you go in/on with a open mind and search for Programing to receive.

A service like FTA LIST helps you find Programing to receive.

FTA satelite Tv is not a way to receive all pay cable Tv and pay satellite services for free all the time.

FTA is --> FTA , what is - is , and , what is not - is not.

As to the Network feeds such as , NBC , CBS , and etc. .

Mostly the feeds are of short duration containing the core part of the Programing , with out the commercials.

FTA satellite Tv and Radio is not a service that most people think of as Tv or Radio , FTA is a type and kind of service that requires a greater degree of flexible thinking.

You are not spoon fed mind numbing Programing with FTA , to receive FTA and the Programing , one must actually think.

[WillyV]

By the way, 39.786683,-78.594695 is my new more detailed position (with a 20' antenna height), I hope. I sort of doubt that it will change my ability to receive "free thru the air local programing etc. Just mentioning for what its worth.

Getting back to the "free satellite" approach on the other hand, if satellite channels "come and go", does that mean that satellite receivers will need to be changed frequently? Or, will using the station guide suffice?

Do new folks initiall start out with one sat receiver? Is that logical?

[WillyV]

The last detailed position was an error. The new position is 39.770811,-78.604946. My apology for this oversite.

[WillyV]

Man, I apologize for the confusion but I believe the link below is what I needed to submitt. http://www.tvfool.com/?option=com_wrapper&Itemid=29&q=id%3d46aeb277234e97. This is my newest position / report update with a 25 foot antenna. I still kind of doubt it will change the overall situation with regards to my ability to pull in some local tv channels but would appreciate your take. Thanks again for your patience.

[WillyV]

My apologies again.... Please disregard the previous signal analysis. This should be the final correct analysis. http://www.tvfool.com/?option=com_wrapper&Itemid=29&q=id%3d46ae1e80f1646d

[GroundUrMast]

You need a sat receiver for each TV. The receiver does not need to be replaced as programing changes occur.

With an outdoor antenna, mounted clear of obstructions, there is a chance at seeing one or two UHF signals. The Antennas Direct DB8e + PA-18 would be my tools of choice. YMMV.

[WillyV]

Grounurmast,

So would UHF be "public television" stations? Thanks very much for your comments.

[teleview]

One of Tvfool reports is at 10 feet antenna height and the other is at 25 feet antenna height , if the reports are made with the Correct address / location , the signal strengths improve at the 25 foot antenna height.

Please make and post Tvfool reports using the correct address / location , at 40 and 60 feet antenna heights.

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The FTA transmissions and reception , does not change , as those using the service come and go and then possibly return at a later date.

The technology improves and changes as time goes by so there is change in that respect , however a new receiver Is Not required as the Programing providers come and go etc. .

There is No catch , There is No trick , to FTA.

The transmission and reception of FTA is made up of basic standards.

With FTA , it helps if one is a flexible thinker.

There are variations added to the basic standards of FTA.

Might help to think of the situation this way , before stereo records , were mono single audio channel records , a mono audio record player will play a stereo record , however not in stereo , and the other way around.

[GroundUrMast]

Grounurmast,

So would UHF be "public television" stations? Thanks very much for your comments.

UHF simply means Ultra High Frequency. In the case of television broadcasting, real channels 14 through 51. Since the switch from analog to digital television, most stations broadcast their signal on a UHF channel. So, UHF is not synonymous with PBS or any single network.

In your case the best prospect for any OTA reception is real CH-26, a UHF channel assigned to WHAG, an NBC affiliate.

[WillyV]

Whew, this is getting complecated no doubt due to my clutzyness. To summarize as of my 11:58 analysis posting, it sounds like a 25' antenna "might" recive 2 UHF tv channels. I don't think I'll submit a request for a 40' or higher antenna since realisticly, I wouldn't do it anyway.

On the free satellite tv track, I just don't know. It sounds a bit complecated not to mention expensive. I did find www.mindworkshop.com/fta.html to be very "in-depth" in covering all the in / outs.

I just might try the tv antennas you mentioned and let it go at that. I realize I might not be getting much but the initial equipment costs seem pretty low. I'll mull it over a bit. I really appreciate the feedback from everyone on this forum. It's fantastic!

[teleview]

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Thank you WillyV.

I was not aware of the , minds, website , and very good over view of the FTA satellite information.

FTA satellite , on the KU band , uses a small dish that is a little bigger then pay satelite providers use.

The FTA satellite dishes have a minimum size and larger sizes then the minimum the minimum size of the dish.

The FTA satelites do not have a standard power output like pay satellite providers have.

The satellites and satellite transponders , some transmissions weaker signal strength , some are stronger signal strength.

It is best to install a , small dish , that is larger then the minimum size.

Most of the new receiver come already loaded with aiming and channels information in the receiver ready for reception.

And most of the new FTA satellite receiver have ' blind scan'
that searches for satellites and satellite channels.

[WillyV]

Teleview, http://www.pappadish.com/free-to-air.html is another link with a good explanation of "free to air" satellite tv and required equipment. It mentioned eliptical shaped dishes. What's your take on them?

Moving ahead, whether I choose the free to air "local" antenna or "satellite" approach, I'd prefer not to mount anything on my roof since it requires "roof time" and holes which can cause potential roof leaks etc. Yeah, I know I'm paranoid and may even eat these words but it is what it is....

Instead, I would affix an antenna support pole to the side of my house that would run vertically from a point slightly above where the concrete foundataion meets the bottom most point of my exterior / log wall. The pole / post would terminate at a point that would be 3 - 4' above my roof peake.

One concern with this configurataion however would be the existance of a stainless steel chimney within 4 - 6feet of the antenna. Right now, I'm thinking that the antenna would actually be 1 - 2' higher than the chimney but this is speculation. Would that compromise the antennas functionality?

Alternative antenna / post placement would be at the other end of the house which would require a long run of cable to the TV etc.

Or, placing the antenna and post off of the house in the yard which actually might be the best approach. If I use this method, I assume the antenna wire running from the post to the house should be burried underground in PVC pipe, right?

Finally, since the house is new and grounded thru the bottom of the foundation, can you advise what additional steps I should take regarding the grounding of an antenna or dish? Well, I know this is a lot but I do appreciate all comments. Thanks again.

[teleview]

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The long pole up the side of the house and extendeds above the peak of the roof is Ok.

As to the chimney , it's Ok if the chimney is not in the path of reception so the chimney does not reduce or block reception.

I sure would like to have a look at those 40 and 60 foot broadcast Tv antenna heights above ground , even if you will not be installing the broadcast Tv antenna that high.

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As to the Eliptical satellite dish , it is used to receive more then one satellite with one reflector dish.

There will be more then one circular shaped receiving antenna out in front of the dish or a Eliptical shaped antenna out in front of the dish that is devided into sections that does the same as separate antennas out in front of the dish.

[WillyV]

Here ya go teleview,

40' analysis: http://www.tvfool.com/?option=com_wrapper&Itemid=29&q=id%3d46aeea5b335794

60' analysis: http://www.tvfool.com/?option=com_wrapper&Itemid=29&q=id%3d46aec60655c358

25' analysis: http://www.tvfool.com/?option=com_wrapper&Itemid=29&q=id%3d46ae01201c6987

Currious about the interpretation of the compass numbers (ie. 29, 26, 12, 7, 23)... Assume they're channels? If so, it looks like 29 (close to true north) and 44 (south east) might be the only channels that might be doable. Am I interpreting that correctly?

By the way, I went to the transmitter profile for WJAC (29) but didn't understand how to read it. There appeared to be peakes but do I read left to right? Anyway, hope all this is helpful and that I'm doing this properly. Thanks.

[GroundUrMast]

...placing the antenna and post off of the house in the yard which actually might be the best approach. If I use this method, I assume the antenna wire running from the post to the house should be burried underground in PVC pipe, right?

Finally, since the house is new and grounded thru the bottom of the foundation, can you advise what additional steps I should take regarding the grounding of an antenna or dish? ... Conduit may seem like extra work when there are direct bury grades of coax available, but conduit gives you the ability to service an installation in the future. (Oh how I wish there was conduit for the low voltage lines between my house and shop.)

Grounding the antenna system is the same whether your electrical service is grounded to a pipe, driven rod(s) or UFER (concrete-encased electrode). Run a #10 AWG copper wire from the mast to the electrical service ground (you can connect to the wire between the electrical service panel and the ground rod (or it's equivalent). A separate connection 10' or less in length should be run from a grounding block to the electrical service ground. In most cases this is not a large expense (in money or effort). http://forum.tvfool.com/showthread.php?t=901

[teleview]

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No advantage of signal strength by going higher then 25 feet antenna height above ground.

To reach out for reception of

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/WHAG-TV.
REAL Digital UHF channel 26.1 , (virt) virtual number (25.1) , NBC .

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/WWPB.
REAL Digital UHF channel 44.1-2-3 , (virt) virtual number (31.1-2-3 , PBS channels.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/WWPX.
REAL Digital VHF channel 12.1-2-3 , (virt) virtual number (x) ION Television channels.

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Above the peak of the roof in such a manner that the roof and chimney and building are not , obstructing , impeding , blocking , reception in the directions of , east south east , south south west.

Install a Winegard HD7698P antenna aimed at about 124 degree magnetic compass direction , a in between aim direction for reception of those 3 Tv stations to the , east , south east.

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The HD7698P antenna is designed to receive , VHF high band channels 7 thru 13 and UHF channels 14 thru 51.

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Here is how to aim antennas , http://www.kyes.com/antenna/pointing/pointing.html.

Use a Real and Actual magnetic compass to aim antenna.

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The signal strengths are Very Weak , so install a , Ultra Low Noise antenna system amplifier.

Install a , http://www.kitztech.com ,
Model KT-200-COAX TV Antenna Booster Remote Power -Coax Fed.

The remote power amplifier provides flexibility of use , to install the amplifier unit inside or outside.

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Recommend the setup Test reception be only 1 Tv connected. No splitters.

If all goes well , can add a 2nd or 3rd Tv with a

Holland Electronics , HFS-2D , 2 way splitter , or , Holland Electronics , HFS-3D , 3 way splitter.

Buy the HFS splitters at , http://www.solidsignal.com

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Here are some places to buy antennas and etc. .

http://www.solidsignal.com

http://www.amazon.com

http://www.winegarddirect.com

www.kitztech.com


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W23DR-D Real UHF channel 23 , and , W07DN-D Real VHF channel 7 .

Are both West Virgina PBS. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/WNPB-TV

As a Test of reception can aim the HD7698P antenna at those 2 Tv stations and scan for channels for the one that is received the best.

[teleview]

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Installing pipe/mast from the ground up , close to the side of the house and fasten the pipe/mast at the eave at the peak of the roof and the pipe/mast extends above the roof is Ok.

[teleview]

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As to the pappadish web site the over 4000 channels and other inflamatory statements

This not the Truth.

I recommend stay away from these type and kind of people.

[WillyV]

My sincere thanks to everyone who took the time to respond. Since the signal analyses seemed so weak for my location, I've decided to go with a basic free to air satellite system. Since I've got very good views of the southern sky, I think reliance on satellites would be an easier "road to hoe." Granted, I won't be able to watch "Monday Night Football" and other stuff but at least I know I'll be able to get a lot more variety and the set up will be easier than trying to rig antennas etc. My sincere thanks again. This is a great forum.