Which Pre-Amp to use?

[skatingrocker17]

I have the HD Stacker TV antenna currently mounted about 30 feet about the ground on my roof. I also have a rotor. Right now, I'm using the Winegard 8275 pre-amp connected to 1 TV and 2 FM radio Tuners. (have DirecTV so not super concerned about TV signals).

Some of the stations I like to listen to (Detroit 101.1 WRIF and Windsor 88.7 CIMX) are between 70-80 miles away. They almost always come in great in my car and 50% of the time come in good at my house.

I have a Sony F1HD FM radio tuner and always hows 3 bars of signal when using the pre-amp, even if it's fuzzy. Could the close FM stations be overloading the signals that are 70-80 miles away? I Winegard 8275 has 29dB of VHF gain which may be two much. Although, the signal is split 3 times and the run to the radio is the garage is about 100' of RG6.

I have no problem receiving my local Toledo TV stations. Should I move to a pre-amp with less gain such as the 8700?

Thanks

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Sounds like you are most interested in improving FM reception. Is that correct?


The performance of that Sony radio will simply blow away your car radio with the proper antenna. For the best FM performance, avoid any amplification (it is NOT necessary) & use a dedicated FM antenna. You will be amazed what that radio is capable of.

[skatingrocker17]

Sounds like you are most interested in improving FM reception. Is that correct?


The performance of that Sony radio will simply blow away your car radio with the proper antenna. For the best FM performance, avoid any amplification (it is NOT necessary) & use a dedicated FM antenna. You will be amazed what that radio is capable of.

So a low band VHF or "FM antenna" would be more suitable? I do like have TV too, as a back up to the DirecTV. I could always put up another antenna since a dedicated FM antenna would be much smaller than a larger VHF/UHF antenna.

[GroundUrMast]

Keeping TV and FM separate is preferred, particularly when one or more FM signals are strong and one or more TV signals are weak. You'll avoid a common source of interference if you keep the FM signals out of the TV system.

Also consider that RG-6 will have far less loss at VHF frequencies than at UHF. Per http://www.timesmicrowave.com/calculator/?productId=118&frequency=100&runLength=100&mode=calculate#form you can expect less than 3 dB of loss in 100' of RG-6 at 100 MHz. If you need to amplify weak TV signals, the chances of a strong FM signal causing trouble goes up.

I would opt for an antenna designed specifically for FM. http://www.antennacraft.net/Antennas/AntennasFM.html

[skatingrocker17]

I guess now I need to choose between the AntennaCraft 70 (FM6) or the Winegard HD-6000. Also, should I use some sort of amp? I plan on splitting the signal 2 or 3 times and one of the runs will be 100' from the splitter.

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I guess now I need to choose between the AntennaCraft 70 (FM6) or the Winegard HD-6000. Also, should I use some sort of amp? I plan on splitting the signal 2 or 3 times and one of the runs will be 100' from the splitter.Either antenna would be a good choice & will far exceed what you are getting now with the Stacker. The FM 6 is slightly better & can be easily modified (http://www.ham-radio.com/k6sti/fm6.htm)for even better performance. You should run a separate cable from the antenna to the FM tuner(s)

Are you connecting the antenna to 3 FM tuners?

[skatingrocker17]

Either antenna would be a good choice & will far exceed what you are getting now with the Stacker. The FM 6 is slightly better & can be easily modified (http://www.ham-radio.com/k6sti/fm6.htm)for even better performance. You should run a separate cable from the antenna to the FM tuner(s)

Are you connecting the antenna to 3 FM tuners?

Are you saying connect each tuner to the antenna and don't split the signal? For example for 3 tuners, get 3 300-75ohm and run each line to the tuner?

No pre-amp? Even for 100' run? I can get away with only 2 tuners.

[skatingrocker17]

Also, as for my TV situation with the stacker, should I get a less powerful pre-amp? For example if I wanted to see the Detroit stations.... would the strong Toledo signals overpower them since my pre-amp is so strong? Honestly, I don't have any issues getting any Toledo stations without a pre-amp, but I like to be able to get stations from other markets (Fort Wayne / Detroit) so I bought one.

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Are you saying connect each tuner to the antenna and don't split the signal? For example for 3 tuners, get 3 300-75ohm and run each line to the tuner?

No pre-amp? Even for 100' run? I can get away with only 2 tuners.No, one coax cable from the antenna to the splitter.

You may end up needing a low gain distribution amp, but I would try without amplification first.

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Also, as for my TV situation with the stacker, should I get a less powerful pre-amp? We need to see a TV Fool report to see how strong your closest stations are to really know the answer to that question.

[skatingrocker17]

We need to see a TV Fool report to see how strong your closest stations are to really know the answer to that question.

http://www.tvfool.com/?option=com_wrapper&Itemid=29&q=id%3d46ae66b877833e

Currently, pointed towards Toledo, I get 20 channels. Sometimes it can be up to 50-60 depending on the night.

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Unfortunately you are out of range for 24/7 reliable reception of the Detroit & Ft. Wayne TV stations, regardless of which pre-amp you use. The 8275 is OK to use for your TV reception if you do in fact need it to provide enough signal for multiple splits .

The good news is that you ARE within range of MANY FM stations within 100-125 miles with a dedicated directional FM only antenna. 2-3 splits may not require an amplifier, but you can use a Channel Master 3414 if you find too much loss.

With a good signal, the Sony radio can provide full stereo reception & little to no noise up to 100 miles with analog. The analog is so good, that is actually sounds better than most HD stations (only 60-70 mile range with HD)

The bad news is that Sony stopped making these amazing radios.:(

[skatingrocker17]

Unfortunately you are out of range for 24/7 reliable reception of the Detroit & Ft. Wayne TV stations, regardless of which pre-amp you use. The 8275 is OK to use for your TV reception if you do in fact need it to provide enough signal for multiple splits .

The good news is that you ARE within range of MANY FM stations within 100-125 miles with a dedicated directional FM only antenna. 2-3 splits may not require an amplifier, but you can use a Channel Master 3414 if you find too much loss.

With a good signal, the Sony radio can provide full stereo reception & little to no noise up to 100 miles with analog. The analog is so good, that is actually sounds better than most HD stations (only 60-70 mile range with HD)

The bad news is that Sony stopped making these amazing radios.:(

The only out-of-market TV stations I can receive during the day is Lima, Ohio. And I really don't care to see that.

So a distribution amp over a pre-amp. I can usually get many of the Detroit stations during the day. Sometimes they come in pretty good and sometimes they're a bit fuzzy. There are some trees but hopefully it won't be too much of an issue, especially if I can get the stations now. Could I mount them on the some pole? They would be 2-4 feet away from each other.

I can't believe Sony stopped making those, I know they sold for $99 when they were in production. I think I had to pay like $225 for mine on some forum. I also have the S3HD from Sony which seems to be the exact same tuner but with speakers. I have it hooked up to an external amp though. The sensitivity of my Onkyo RC-460 home theater receiver honestly seems to be just as good.

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So a distribution amp over a pre-amp. I can usually get many of the Detroit stations during the day. Sometimes they come in pretty good and sometimes they're a bit fuzzy. There are some trees but hopefully it won't be too much of an issue, especially if I can get the stations now. Could I mount them on the some pole? They would be 2-4 feet away from each other.You could try using the 8275 for the FM antenna & see if it improves or degrades reception since you already have it. No strong FM stations nearby according to FM Fool. Trees don't seem to have much affect on FM from my experience. 2-4 feet of separation should be fine, but go for the full 4 feet if possible.


I can't believe Sony stopped making those, I know they sold for $99 when they were in production. I think I had to pay like $225 for mine on some forum. I also have the S3HD from Sony which seems to be the exact same tuner but with speakers. I have it hooked up to an external amp though. The sensitivity of my Onkyo RC-460 home theater receiver honestly seems to be just as good.I bet the Onkyo can't match the long distance perfomance of either Sony. I get full stereo separation & zero noise on one station 93 miles away with just an attic antenna. (104.3) Any other non HD tuner I have tried won't get the station clearly due to splatter from a local station on 104.1. There is no audible adjacent channel splatter, even on the strongest stations.

Got lucky & found an S3HD on Ebay this morning for just $39.00. The S1HD models are VERY pricey, but no better than the S3HD when hooked up to an external amp. I prefer the tuner knob on the S3HD over the pushbuttons since the unit loses memeory when unplugged.

[skatingrocker17]

You could try using the 8275 for the FM antenna & see if it improves or degrades reception since you already have it. No strong FM stations nearby according to FM Fool. Trees don't seem to have much affect on FM from my experience. 2-4 feet of separation should be fine, but go for the full 4 feet if possible.

I bet the Onkyo can't match the long distance perfomance of either Sony. I get full stereo separation & zero noise on one station 93 miles away with just an attic antenna. (104.3) Any other non HD tuner I have tried won't get the station clearly due to splatter from a local station on 104.1. There is no audible adjacent channel splatter, even on the strongest stations.

Got lucky & found an S3HD on Ebay this morning for just $39.00. The S1HD models are VERY pricey, but no better than the S3HD when hooked up to an external amp. I prefer the tuner knob on the S3HD over the pushbuttons since the unit loses memeory when unplugged.

That's why I got the S3HD, because it's a good alternative and they can be found much cheaper. If anything, I've had better results with it.

As for a pre-amp vs. distribution amp, would either have an effect on reception? Like I said before, the only reason I consider one is because of the long run. But, the pre-amp would just be amplifying the signal closer to the antenna whereas the distribution amp would be amplifying it further down the line. I will see if the 8275 help at all, but it always makes the signal bars read incorrectly which is annoying. I will definitely need something I think since were talking AT LEAST 125 feet from the antenna to the garage which is where I do the majority of my listening.

Anyway, I'm going to put it up right now.

[skatingrocker17]

It definitely works great. Right now, I just have it hooked up to the S3HD with 50 feet of coax. I am able to pull in every Detroit/Toledo station perfectly. It's very directional, which is probably one of the reasons it works so well. Before, 107.5 WZRX (which I like) out of Lima always cut in and out with a Detroit rap station but now, it's just the Detroit rap station.

The reason why I wasn't sure whether to get a pre-amp or distribution amp is because I always feel like a pre-amp is going to help me get more channels / better signals. Which is probably not true.

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Good to hear!! What antenna are you using?

You have to try both with & w/o the preamp to really tell. From my experience, FM sounds best unamplified for the cleanest analog sound quality (less hiss)

[skatingrocker17]

Good to hear!! What antenna are you using?

You have to try both with & w/o the preamp to really tell. From my experience, FM sounds best unamplified for the cleanest analog sound quality (less hiss)

I got the FM6.

So if I just get a distribution amp, everything should just remain about the same as it would be if it just came straight from the antenna?

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Yes, the 3414 has less gain than the 8275 & will provide a robust signal for up to 4 splits. I've tried the 3414 with my set-up with no noticeable added noise to even the weakest signals.

Are you seeing any HD from Detroit?

[skatingrocker17]

I seem to have a pretty good lock on 104.3 WOMC HD in Detroit, during the day. That's all I've seen so far. I have been getting RDS from many of the stations too.

I ended up buying the Channel Master 3414, it will be connected after a 20-25' run of RG6 from the antenna.

[estefan2020]

you may be interested in a duplexer that divides the uhf and vhf ebay has a few $30-50 mainly for hams but can be used to direct uhf and vhf to separate cables.




I have the HD Stacker TV antenna currently mounted about 30 feet about the ground on my roof. I also have a rotor. Right now, I'm using the Winegard 8275 pre-amp connected to 1 TV and 2 FM radio Tuners. (have DirecTV so not super concerned about TV signals).

Some of the stations I like to listen to (Detroit 101.1 WRIF and Windsor 88.7 CIMX) are between 70-80 miles away. They almost always come in great in my car and 50% of the time come in good at my house.

I have a Sony F1HD FM radio tuner and always hows 3 bars of signal when using the pre-amp, even if it's fuzzy. Could the close FM stations be overloading the signals that are 70-80 miles away? I Winegard 8275 has 29dB of VHF gain which may be two much. Although, the signal is split 3 times and the run to the radio is the garage is about 100' of RG6.

I have no problem receiving my local Toledo TV stations. Should I move to a pre-amp with less gain such as the 8700?

Thanks

[skatingrocker17]

Could a pre-amp help with an analog FM station that occasionally fades?

[estefan2020]

choose a LNA low noise amplifier, usually 1db or less

An amplifier by its definition creates noise, Read on discrete transistor amplifiers, but thats not all, An amplifier will amplify signal, as well as general noise in the environment + its own noise it makes.

If at all possible use an antenna with gain over a standard quarter wave antenna. Use a low noise amp/pre-amp at the antenna mast, only if you have +50ft of coax transmission line. quad rg-6 is not bad, RG-11/ is better, and is better than the standard dual shielding rg-6, but there are even better cable, but will drive the cost up considerably and not available in traditional stores, but is used in new home construction. each 100ft of coax will reduce your signal, This is why you have an antenna mounted low noise amplifier, to compensate for cable losses.

amplifying the signal at the tv/ fm tuner will will amplify an already degraded signal. Each splitter will reduce the signal, so a 3 way splitter will add insertion loss plus have 0.33 1/3 of the signal. Using the correct duplexer which has a hi pass filter for uhf tv , and a low pass filter for fm radio, then split the fm for the 2 fm receivers having 0.5 or 1/2 if the signal, More signal for the receivers, instead of using the traditional 3 way splitter.

You could try with a low noise amplifier at the antenna, and go from there. and swap the 3 way with a duplexer and a 2way splitter, if the signal level is not to your liking.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Coaxial_cable great read explaines cable selections.

Its easy to loose signal, but ones its lost, the quality will suffer if amplified after the fact.


Could a pre-amp help with an analog FM station that occasionally fades?

[skatingrocker17]

choose a LNA low noise amplifier, usually 1db or less

An amplifier by its definition creates noise, Read on discrete transistor amplifiers, but thats not all, An amplifier will amplify signal, as well as general noise in the environment + its own noise it makes.

If at all possible use an antenna with gain over a standard quarter wave antenna. Use a low noise amp/pre-amp at the antenna mast, only if you have +50ft of coax transmission line. quad rg-6 is not bad, RG-11/ is better, and is better than the standard dual shielding rg-6, but there are even better cable, but will drive the cost up considerably and not available in traditional stores, but is used in new home construction. each 100ft of coax will reduce your signal, This is why you have an antenna mounted low noise amplifier, to compensate for cable losses.

amplifying the signal at the tv/ fm tuner will will amplify an already degraded signal. Each splitter will reduce the signal, so a 3 way splitter will add insertion loss plus have 0.33 1/3 of the signal. Using the correct duplexer which has a hi pass filter for uhf tv , and a low pass filter for fm radio, then split the fm for the 2 fm receivers having 0.5 or 1/2 if the signal, More signal for the receivers, instead of using the traditional 3 way splitter.

You could try with a low noise amplifier at the antenna, and go from there. and swap the 3 way with a duplexer and a 2way splitter, if the signal level is not to your liking.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Coaxial_cable great read explaines cable selections.

Its easy to loose signal, but ones its lost, the quality will suffer if amplified after the fact.

Right now I just have a 50 foot run of RG6 coax to the radio.

In the next few days, I will have 25 feet of quad sheild RG6 from the antenna to a Channel Master 3414 distribution amplifier. The noise rating on the distribution amps seem to be VERY similar to the pre-amps. Usually a little under 3db.

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Could a pre-amp help with an analog FM station that occasionally fades?Doubtful. Fading is the result of signal bounce off of aircraft or various changes in the atmosphere that you have no control over.

What station(s) are you experiencing fading?

[skatingrocker17]

Doubtful. Fading is the result of signal bounce off of aircraft or various changes in the atmosphere that you have no control over.

What station(s) are you experiencing fading?

101.1 WRIF occasionally fades, sometimes get's fuzzy. Maybe it's just the way the antenna is pointed. 88.7 CIMX seems to come in pretty consistently with RDS.

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Too bad Winegard discontinued the 6055 (https://www.google.com/search?q=Winegard%20HD6055P#q=Winegard+HD6055P&tbm=shop) antenna. That would have helped you somewhat, but WRIF would likely not be completely stable at close to 100 miles out with any antenna. CIMX is pushing 100,000 watts & is about 20 miles closer to you.

Does your Sony now far exceed your car radio's performance since you installed the FM6 antenna?

[skatingrocker17]

Too bad Winegard discontinued the 6055 (https://www.google.com/search?q=Winegard%20HD6055P#q=Winegard+HD6055P&tbm=shop) antenna. That would have helped you somewhat, but WRIF would likely not be completely stable at close to 100 miles out with any antenna. CIMX is pushing 100,000 watts & is about 20 miles closer to you.

Does your Sony now far exceed your car radio's performance since you installed the FM6 antenna?

I could of bought that instead. And yes it's much better, but also directional. I proabably like CIMX more, but it would be nice to have WRIF 100% of the time since I listen to their morning show Dave and Chuck the freak. It comes in fine going North on I-75 though on my way to school so it works out OK.

[skatingrocker17]

Is there anything BETTER than the FM6 out there that's available?

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Unfortunately you are SOL with a better FM antenna unless you can find a used one. All the Winegard 6055's seem to have disappeared.

Not sure how much a modified FM6 will help you, but it's easy enough to do. The modification will improve the front to back ratio, but doesn't add any forward gain so it's hard to say how much improvement you will actually see.

Are you having trouble at certain times, or all the time? The atmosphere is still quite active with tropospheric activity (http://www.dxinfocentre.com/tropo.html), but will start simmering down as cooler weather moves in. The tropo activity can really wreak havoc on normally decent reception when signals from 200+ miles on the same frequency override them.

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Centronics (http://www.centronics.com/product.php?id=523) is showing the 6055 as being in stock. You may want to see if they still really have any left.

[skatingrocker17]

Centronics (http://www.centronics.com/product.php?id=523) is showing the 6055 as being in stock. You may want to see if they still really have any left.

So a dedicated FM antenna would still be the best way to go? I can get any kind of antenna with FM being the highest priority, I might just take the HD stacker down. I can get all my Toledo stations UHF and VHF with the FM6 with no issues at all.

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So a dedicated FM antenna would still be the best way to go? Absolutely. I had one of the best VHF-FM antenna years ago & it didn't really work any better than the FM6.

I actually had the even larger 1110(16 feet long), but could't find a pic.

[skatingrocker17]

Absolutely. I had one of the best VHF-FM antenna years ago & it didn't really work any better than the FM6.

I actually had the even larger 1110(16 feet long), but could't find a pic.

I bought the 6055 to mess around with. I can't return the FM6 since I threw the box away. I found it strange that I got all the TV channels that I get with the HD Stacker since the FM6 is only for low VHF. The signal strength was just as strong too.

I have never heard of Centronics so hopefully the antenna actually comes.