Help with Reception in Buffalo

[nkreed]

Hi all,

This is my first post and also my first attempt into capturing OTA television. I have done a little research so far, but can't figure out a good antenna(s?) to use. Here is my tvfool report:

http://www.tvfool.com/?option=com_wrapper&Itemid=29&q=id%3d46ae696d59c619

One thing I know will be a problem is the broadcast tower 2.5 miles away. My little research has found that I cannot use any power within my system. I am looking to receive the Buffalo and Toronto broadcast signals. These stations are nearly 180 degrees apart. If it is anyhow plausible, I want to ask if pointing an antenna in between the Hamilton (CITS, etc.) and Toronto stations would allow my to pick up a few from each market.

I will be locating the antenna on the peak of my 2 story house, this gives me me a very good sightline both SE and NW without immediate obstructions. I would like to run the Coax cable down to the ground, into the house, through a splitter to a TV and a DVR (TViX M6620n+).

Since this is my first installation, I have no clue on what specific accessories I would need, what type of coax I would need, and how to ground the antenna. Once the cable is in the house, it's fairly straightforward for me, but everything outside of the house is new territory. Any help would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks in advance, and my next post hopefully won't be as long winded. The Buffalo and Toronto stations are listed below.

Buffalo: CW, PBS, Fox, NBC, ABC, CBS, and WBBZ(in case of a Bills game broadcasting on this channel)

Toronto: CICA, CFTO, etc.

[teleview]

Yes those first 3 USA Tv stations are Very Strong Signal Strength and 2 plus miles away.

Makes one think about avoiding a antenna system amplifier.

The USA Tv stations are Strong Signal Strength.

Most of the Canada Tv stations are Weaker signal strength.

With , CJMT UHF channel 40 Omni 2 , CITY UHF channel 44 CITY Tv , CFMT channel 47 , Very weak signal strengths.
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To keep it simple.

The situation calls for using a antenna only for reception.

Use a antenna that is not to big and not to small.

Use a antenna that will receive the Strong USA Tv stations/channels through the , back / back angles of the antenna.

Yet also has some forward gain for reception of those Weak Canada Tv stations.

A choice of a , ANT751 antenna or a Channel Master CM2016 antenna.

The ANT751 has a little less forward gain , however receives a little better through the , back / back angles of the antenna.

The CM2016 has a little more forward gain , however receives a little less through the , back / back angles to the antenna.

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I lean toward the CM2016 antenna aimed at about 344 degree magnetic compass direction.

Here is how to aim antennas , http://www.kyes.com/antenna/pointing/pointing.html.

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A Winegard DS3000 , J Pole type antenna mount works very well with the CM2016 antenna for a antenna mount.

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A simple 2 way splitter will be Ok.

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Here are some places to buy antennas and etc. .

http://www.solidsignal.com.

http://www.amazon.com.

http://www.channelmasterstore.com.

http://www.winegarddirect.com.

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[nkreed]

Thank you Teleview for your help so far, I greatly appreciate it. This has made my research into the topic much easier. I do have a few questions:

Firstly, the CM2016 says that it has a range of 45 miles, however, the broadcast towers are about 46 miles away. On a clear day I would have no doubt that I should be able to pick up Toronto, but on inclement weather days, won't I lose the stations? Would a little larger gain antenna provide these stations more reliably without losing the Buffalo stations?

Secondly, does a 100 meter elevation change (Toronto is lower) affect the ability to receive signals positively or negatively?

[teleview]

Antenna mileage numbers are a general guide.

If a antenna says 45 miles that does not mean that the antenna stops receiving at 45 miles.

As to elevations up or down.

If the elevation is up or down and is LOS=Line Of Sight then up or down is Ok.

If there are land obstructions , hills/mountains in between or other obstructions then the obstructions will effect reception.

The tvfool report shows one edge path obstruction.

The CM2016 should receive OK , the important situation is to install the CM2016 at a location that has the least amount to no amount of Close obstructions that will reduce reception.

[nkreed]

Well I know I am digging up an old post but I wanted to ask a question with the reception of the close stations in my set up.

I have installed the CM2016 antenna pointed at about 344 magnetic degrees and I receive a ton of stations! Even during bad weather days I receive a ton of Canadian stations without issue!

However I do not receive WNLO and WNED is choppy sometimes.

I currently have the coax line from the antenna into a 2 way splitter that has one line run to a television, and the other run to a TIVO Roamio.

I can live without WNLO, but WNED is the local PBS station, and I do like some programming. Is there any way to reduce the signals coming from these two stations so it doesn't overload my TIVO/TV?

Btw, WUTV comes in without any issues.

Thanks.

[teleview]

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The first 2 Tv stations are very strong signal strength.

To reduce signal strength.

At , www.amazon.com , order some signal attenuators made by Holland Electronics.

Order one , 6 dB signal attenuator pad.

And order two , 3 db signal attenuator pads.

Connect them 1 at a time , starting with a 3 db attenuator.

And connect them in combinations.

The usual place to install them is in the coax line that comes from the antenna.

If the TiVo is the only reception device that is having the problems with the strong signal you can try the signal attenuators at the coax input of the TiVo.

[nkreed]

Adding in attenuators will decrease the power for all of the channels, is that correct?

So by adding in an attenuator may drop a channel that I get reliably, but not fairly strong.

Once again thanks for your input. I am extremely grateful that you took time out of your day to help me!

[teleview]

+=>
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Yes the attenuators will reduce the signal strength of all Tv channels.

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Multi-Path Tv Signal Reflections are increased with strong Tv signals.

You can all so adjust the antenna aim and move the antenna up and down and change location to find a better reception.

[tomfoolery]

Before adding an attenuator, you might try turning the antenna towards the south, to put the strongest station (real 32) into a weaker part of the lobe. I did this with my own, with a bunch of very strong signals and one distant, weaker station, and it worked very well. You may lose ION on real 23, though. But it's easy enough to experiment, unless you have to put yourself at risk on a steep roof or something.

[nkreed]

Before adding an attenuator, you might try turning the antenna towards the south, to put the strongest station (real 32) into a weaker part of the lobe. I did this with my own, with a bunch of very strong signals and one distant, weaker station, and it worked very well. You may lose ION on real 23, though. But it's easy enough to experiment, unless you have to put yourself at risk on a steep roof or something.

Is there a diagram of how the CM-2016 is set up-lobe wise (I don't know the technical name of that plot). I was thinking that I would be able to receive the Toronto stations (NNW) fairly well, as they have strong signals associated with them (and the path is mostly Lake Ontario) if I were to point South. I would just want to keep the Toronto stations within the best of the back lobe of the antenna plot (to make sure I keep getting them).

[GroundUrMast]

Unfortunately, Channel Master has not published polar gain plots for their antennas. But you don't really need the plot, you simply need to adjust the aim of the antenna, then re-scan to see if you add any channels and make note of the changes in signal strength/reliability. If you take you time, and make notes, paper or mental, you'll effectively discover how the antenna really performs in your application which is the only application that really matters (right?).

[nkreed]

Adjusting and mapping would be an easy course of action, I will admit. I'm just a technical person who likes to know why something works the way it does. :D By adjusting and measuring the results I am in essence creating the same thing as a polar gain plot. I haven't put myself into a situation where adjusting my antenna is too difficult, I just don't like ladders and heights!(And it's Buffalo and winter, not always the best mix;)) I would rather change the position to the most practical spot the first time.