Going to an Antenna

[darkmatter]

Hello all. First off here's my link
http://www.tvfool.com/?option=com_wrapper&Itemid=29&q=id%3d1dda059be1ef9a

Currently we have Comcast and we are going to cut them some time next week. I have a eve mounted antenna that I got from Radio Shack about 10 years ago model VU90XR. The current antenna is about 25 feet above ground and is higher then the peak of my roof. I few years ago when we had Dish we tried using the antenna for local stations. My wife's favorite station is CW out of Philly. The problem we were having at that time was it would come in for a day or two then it would not. I got something from radio shack that would plug in and put it in behind my entertainment system. It worked for a few days then lost the station again. This kept happening until I had the gain turned all the way up and the station would not come in. I would like to get as many stations as possible. I'm looking for an antenna that does FM, Low VHF, High VHF, and UHF or a combination. I've looked online and talked to different places and of course they all say that there antenna is the best. Some of them were Dennys Hd Stacker the clear stream cv2 and one called the spectrum 6. I've also read somethings on this fourm and found out that the spectrum is chinese junk. The new antenna will be hooked up to 3 Tvs and 1 stereo reciever. My plan is to at least get a new antenna, ground wire, and about 35 feet of rg6 cable going into my house and maybe a distribution amp like the winegard HDA-100.

Any suggestions would be greatly appreaciated.

Thanks in advance Rich

[teleview]

A Simple reception situation.

Above the high point of the roof in such a manner that the roof and house are not blocking reception to the , south east , north east.

Install a Winegard HD7000R antenna aimed at about 31 degree magnetic compass direction.

Here is how to aim antennas , http://www.kyes.com/antenna/pointing/pointing.html.

The HD7000R antenna has some forward antenna gain for the Weaker Signal Strength Digital Broadcast Tv stations/channels to the , north east.

And being a small directional antenna , it is not all that directional and will also receive the Much Stronger Signal Strength Digital Tv stations/channels to the , south east , due to the fact that directional antennas also receive to a lesser degree to the front angles , back angles and back of a directional tv antenna.

The least amount of reception at a directional Tv antenna is directly on the sides of the antenna.
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A preamplifier is not required.

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For 1 Tv connection use No splitter.

For 2 Tv's connected use a simple common 2 way splitter.

For 3 or 4 Tv's connected use a , Channel Master CM3414 distribution amplifier.

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Here are some above the roof antenna mounts.

http://www.ronard.com/909911.html , if using the tripod antenna mount use the 5 foot tripod antenna mount.

http://www.ronard.com/34424560.html , if using the eave antenna mount use the #4560.

http://www.ronard.com/ychim.html.

http://www.ronard.com.

Buy the ronard antenna mounts at solidsignal by typing the word ronard in the solidsignal search box or buy from ronard.

Here are places to buy antennas and etc. , http://www.solidsignal.com , http://www.amazon.com , http://www.winegarddirect.com , http://www.channelmasterstore.com , http://www.antennacraft.net.

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For a FM antenna above the roof , I recommend a Antenna Craft , FMSS , antenna.

The FMSS is omni directional type antenna that will receive the local FM radio stations.

For the best Quality FM and Tv reception , I recommend have a Separate coax for the FMSS Antenna that is not connected to the Digital Tv system coaxes.

The local FM radio stations are strong signal strength , No requirement for a amplifier with the FMSS antenna reception

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As Always , trees and tree leaves do a good job of , reflecting , reducing , blocking , digital broadcast Tv reception and so do buildings and other obstructions including your own roof and house.

It is best to install the antennas at a location that has the least amount to no amount of obstructions of any type or kind in the directions of reception including your own roof and house.

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Separate the HD7000R antenna and FMSS antenna by about 3 feet on the same mast. The FMSS antenna above the HD7000R antenna.

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The Tv's Must Channel Scan for the Digital Broadcast Tv channels , often named the 'Air Channels' or 'Antenna Channels' in the Tv setup menu because the Tv transmissions travel through the Air from the transmitting antenna to the receiving antenna.

Some Digital Tv's will automatic channel scan for cable tv channels.

DO NOT channel scan for cable tv channels.

Go into the Tv setup menu and select , 'Air Channels' / 'Antenna Channels'.

[darkmatter]

So you dont think that i need one with a longer range like either the HD7084P or the HD8200U?

[teleview]

With the HD7000R aimed as directed , the Current Plus Pending Applications Included Digital Tv stations/channels down the list to and including WLVT-DT UHF Digital channel 39 PBS , in the Green and Yellow reception zones will be received.

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If you will like to reach out for more Digital Tv stations/channels , on down the stations/channels list past WLVT.

Then do not install the HD7000R antenna system.
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Install a Winegard HD7084P antenna aimed at about 160 degree magnetic compass direction.

Install a Winegard HDP-269 preamp.

For 1 Tv connected use No splitter.

For 2 Tv's connected use a , HFS-2D , 2 way splitter.

For 3 Tv's connected use a , HFS-3D , 3 way splitter.

Buy the HFS splitters at , http://www.solidsignal.com , or , http://www.hollandelectronics.com.
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Because the weaker signal strength WLVT-DT UHF Digital channel 39 PBS , will be at a back angle to the HD7084P antenna.

Will most likely need to adjust the back angle aim of the HD7084P antenna for best reception at a back angle to the antenna.

The HD7084P antenna is a big directional antenna in the forward direction and as such receives very good at the front of the antenna but less at the back angles and back of the antenna then the HD7000R that receives more at back angles and back of the antenna.
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Most Digital Tv's have a Signal strength meter and some Digital Tv's also have a Signal Quality meter.

[darkmatter]

Ok thanks I will give it a try.

[darkmatter]

One more quick question do you think that I would benifit (get more stations) if I add a rotor to the antenna set up.

winegard hd7084p
winegard hdp-269 pre amp
and seperate antennacraft fmss antenna at least 3 feet above other antenna

Thanks again Rich

[teleview]

With the HD7084P antenna installed and aimed at about 162 degree magnetic compass direction.

You are -->Very Close<-- to being -->Maxed Out<- for Digital Tv Stations reception.

As always , Antenna rotators -->Are Not<-->channel surfing friendly , Must Wait for antenna to rotate and there -->Will Be Domestic Situations concerning the direction the antenna is aimed.

There are some -->Very Weak Signal Strength<-- Digital Tv stations channels in the direction of , west / south west , at about 260 degree magnetic compass direction , that the tvfool channel list is showing. And these Digital Tv stations/channels also have , Adjacent Channel Interference and Co-Channel interference issues.

As a -->Test<-- , I recommend turn the HD7084P antenna by hand to the , south west , west direction and scan for Digital Broadcast Tv Channels.

To see what is received.

You will then decide if it is enough reception to install a Completely Separate Antenna System of a Winegard HD7698P antenna and HDP-269 preamp , Separate splitters Separate coax , Separate All the way to each Tv location.

And a Remote control A/B antenna switch will be installed at each Tv location to change antennas.

Remote control A/B antenna switching is , Yes , Channel Surfing Friendly.

Press the button on the hand held remote control , Change Antennas and Keep On Channel Surfing.

http://www.mcmelectronics.com . #32-4425.

[GroundUrMast]

I'm also reluctant to suggest a rotator. Try the antenna system as suggested, there's a reasonable chance that you'll get reception of real CH-9, 46 & 39 through the back of the antenna. If not, you still have the option to turn the antenna northward as a test... then decide if you want to add a second antenna.

[darkmatter]

Ok I'm not sure if I want to do 2 antennas. Just not worth the headache. I think I will just do the 1 antenna aimed at about 162 then thanks again.

[darkmatter]

I figured that I would post what I did and my results. First I would like to thank Teleview for all your help.

My equipment

winegard hd7094p
antenna's direct fm 360
winegard hdp-269 preamp
winegard hfs-2d 2 way splitter
used the existing eve mount (just used new wall mounting screws)
new mast pipe, all new copper coaxial, new grounding rod, new copper grounding wire, new tripp lite surge protector, new motorola sb6141 modem

All together spent about $500 but now I get 42-44 tv stations on both televisions. More fm radio stations then I bothered counting. The ones my wife and I like to listen to come in crystal clear. Even the internet seems faster.

Thanks again Rich

[teleview]

Very good , thanks for returning with a report.

[darkmatter]

Ok now I have a quick question about reception. Almost all the stations that I get come without any problems. As stated I have the antenna set to the 162 degree magnetic compass setting. The station I am having problems with is 69-1 on windy days I get the no or weak signal. I was wondering if a distribution amplifier like the winegard hda-100 would help or would it cause me to loose other stations.

Thanks again Rich

[GroundUrMast]

A DA won't break anything, but I doubt you have a signal strength problem.

Your current aim of 162° is ideal for the main group of signals from the SE but leaves you susceptible to multipath interference to the NE group.

As a test, have you aimed the antenna at the WFMZ transmitter (31° compass)? The stronger signals from the SE may still be received well, they're LOS and are no doubt arriving at your antenna in better shape than the signals that had to traverse an edge path.

[darkmatter]

Thats the funny thing is I get other stations from the 31 degree with no problems. WFMZ comes in sometimes and other times I have problems like the other night when it was a bit windy.

[darkmatter]

I haven't tried turning the antenna. The other stations that I get are 39-1 39-2 39-3 39-4 and 60-1

[teleview]

Amplifiers Are Not the automatic answer to all reception situations.

WFMZ-TV REAL UHF digital channel 46 , virtual number (69.1) Independent Tv station.

Along with.

WBPH-TV REAL VHF digital channel 9 , virtual number (60.1) Independent Tv station.

WLVT-DT REAL UHF digital channel 39 , virtual number (39.1) PBS.

Are being received at a back angle to the HD7084P antenna.

This means that the - very directional in the forward direction - HD7084P antenna is not doing all that good of job of receiving the weaker digital Tv transmissions to the north east.


The HD7084P antenna along with other directional antennas receive the best at the front and front angles to the antenna.

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The - wind issue - has to do with reflected signals off of the trees (multipath).

Tv transmissions are reflected off of trees , the shifting of the trees in the wind causes shifting multipath.

Digital Broadcast Tv tuners can cope with and correct some multipath in the computer circuits of the tuner.

However , at some point the computer in the tuner will not be able to correct.

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The starting aim direction of a antenna is the -->starting aim direction of the antenna.

Try adjusting the aim direction of the antenna so the Tv transmissions are received at a different back or back angle to the HD7084P antenna with out loosing the reception of the Tv stations to the front of the antenna.

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And yes you can try a second amplifier , But know this , making the signal stronger will also make the reflected signals stronger.

If the reception situation is not resolvable by HD7084P antenna aim adjustment , then will most likely be required to install a second antenna system that Is Not connected to the to the first antenna system.

That is aimed at the Tv transmitters to the , north east.

WFMZ. , WBPH. , WLVT.

If that is what it comes to , then I recommend a Winegard HD7696P antenna with No preamplifier aimed at about 32 degree magnetic compass direction.

For 1 Tv connected use No splitter.

For 2 Tv's connected use a simple common 2 way splitter.

For 3 Tv's connected use a simple common 3 way splitter.


The 2 antenna systems Will Be Separate all the way to the Tv locations where a Remote control A/B antenna switch will be connected.

A/B antenna switching Is Channel Surfing Friendly , press the button on the hand held remote control , Change Antennas and Keep On Channel Surfing.

http://www.mcmelectronics.com. #32-4425.

[teleview]

Aiming the HD7084P antenna at the , north east group of Tv stations will improve the reception of the north east group of Tv stations , and , the stronger Tv stations to the south east will also be received.

Some weaker ones to the , south east , may be lost.

It is a Test.

[darkmatter]

Ok I tried adjusting the antenna some yesterday channel 69 seems to be comming in a bit better started to have a little pixelation on channel 17. I ordered a longer piece of coaxial so I can try raising it a little higher. Also ordered the winegard hda-100 ampilfier to give it a try. If it helps then great if not oh well guess I'm out about $40 then. I will post my results after I get done dialing everything in.

[darkmatter]

I raised the antenna by about 3 feet and tried the winegard hda-100 distribution amp with no improvement. I reposition the antenna to try to get Wfmz 69 in better. Wfmz 69 then came in great but then I had lost a few other stations. Also had problems with another of our favorite stations Cw 57. So I put the antenna back to 161 degrees so I would get all the stations that I orginally had. Wfmz 69 comes and goes with some pixalation. Unless I put up another seperate antenna like Teleview recomended to get Wfmz 69 and a few more stations. Thanks to everyone for all your help. Teleview all your information was right on and very helpful. Thanks again Rich

[teleview]

Yes installing a second Separate antenna system seems like a lot of effort and expense , And Yes it is.

However , after installed , it is easy to change antennas by pressing the button on the hand held remote control or the remote control A/B antenna switch.
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And think about this , how much is the ongoing cost of cable Tv or satellite Tv??

At $100.00 dollars a month , that is $1,200.00 dollars a year.

How much for 5 years??

How much for 10 years?? Is it $12,000.00 dollars.

[darkmatter]

Well that's not going to happen. The wife is now addicted to Netflix and Hulu. She thinks that we already spent too much on the antenna and that because she can watch all of her shows off Hulu or Netflix we don't even need it. Oh well I'm happy cause I get all my radio stations and I watch some of the stations for news and law and order during the day. Thanks again Rich.

[darkmatter]

If I was able to convince her. What would be a small inexpensive antenna that I could put low on the mast next to my house faceing the general direction to get those stations better. It would be no farther then a foot away from the side of my house.

[teleview]

The Smallest 2nd antenna I recommend for reception of the Digital Tv stations/channels to the north east is a Winegard HD7694P antenna.

With No amplifier.

The wording you are using in your latest request are raising Red flags of concern that you are painting your self into a corner.

"What would be a small inexpensive antenna"

"I could put low on the mast next to my house"

"It would be no farther then a foot away from the side of my house"

These combinations of words and statements raise Red flags of concern.

And these words stand out , "small inexpensive" and "foot away" and "side of my house".

Hiding small antennas is a good way to -->Not get reliable reception.

The HD7694P antenna and HD7084P antenna Can Not Be Connected onto 1 coax and must be connected as recommended as 2 Complete Separate antenna systems with Remote control A/B antenna switches.

However as always , you are free to do whatever you choose to do.

[darkmatter]

Ok thanks as a small and inexpensive antenna I was thinking something like the clearstream 2 which solid signal has for about $45. As for being a foot away from my house that would be the back angle of the antenna. Low on the mast would still be about 15 or so feet off the ground over the lower roof and next to the main roof about 1 foot. Thanks again for the reply and I really trust your suggestions Teleview everything that you have said has been great. All of the recomendations that you have given my worked perfectly.

[darkmatter]

This will be my last question on this matter. Is there a multi direction tv antenna that will work in my situation that would replace the winegard hd7084p. So i could get most or all the stations at 162 degrees and at least channel 69 from 32 degrees. The reason I ask is I have one of those tvs that needs to be rescaned everytime. I can't manually add stations. I want to try to get as many stations I can get with only 1 antenna. I now can get around 40.

[GroundUrMast]

The 7084 gives you gain and directivity. Both factors help provide reliable reception by maximizing received signal power and rejection of interfering reflected path signals (multipath). Going to a low gain antenna with little or no directivity puts you at risk of being the victim of multipath and low signal strength...

If you want 'every possible signal' you need more, not less antennas.

[teleview]

Here is - a way - to get all the Tv stations/channels in to the tuner.

Aim the HD7084P antenna to the south east , adjust the HD7084P antenna so the north east stations are also received with out loosing reception of the south east tv stations/channels , all the channels can be programed into the tuner.

Reliable reception is not required , the mission is to get the channels into the tuner.

Then connect the HD7694P antenna as directed , all the channels are in the tuner , so can switch from one antenna to the other and receive all the channels with out rescanning.

Adjust the aim of the HD7694P antenna for best reception of the north east Tv stations/channels.

Adjust the aim of the HD7084P antenna for best reception to the south east group of Tv stations/channels.

[darkmatter]

I just had a thought and was wondering if this might be causing the issue with my signal problem. The hd7084p antenna is wired like this. There is a 6 foot cable from the antenna to the preamp and then there is a 35 foot cable from the preamp to the power block inside my house. From the preamp power block there is a 15 foot cable to a 2 way splitter . From the splitter 1 cable goes to the bed room tv a cheap 22 inch Dynex and the 2nd cable (a 6 foot section) goes into a tripplite a/v surge protector. Finally a 6 foot cable from the surge protector to the main tv (Samsung Plasma). If I remember correctly I get better reception in the bed room. Could my issue be because of the surge protector? I am going to try a couple things 1st install the distribution amp after the splitter to the main tv (Samsung) 2nd If that doesn't work I will try taking the splitter out and only run the antenna to the main TV. I'm wondering if the issue might be the sensativity of the main tv tuner.

[darkmatter]

Everything is finished now and this is what I ended up doing. I returned the winegard hd-7084p and ended up with Antennas direct db-4e. This antenna has a 60 degree front and back angle which worked great in my situation. It is a uhf only antenna but is advertised that it can get close high vhf channels. With this antenna I was able to get all the stations that I got with the winegard and even a couple more. I acctually even get all the vhf channels both low and high. 3-1,3-2,6-1,6-2,6-3,8-1,8-2,10-1,10-2,12-1,12-2,12-3,17-1,17-2,17-3,17-4,29-1,35-1,35-2,35-3,35-4,35-66,39-1,39-3,39-4,48-1,48-2,48-3,48-4,48-5,51-1,51-2,57-1,60-1,61-1,61-2,61-3,61-4,65-1,65-2,69-1,69-2,69-3,and 69-4. This antenna is so small too. Its about 3 and 1/2 feet tall by about 2 feet wide. Thanks again for everyones help.

[darkmatter]

http://www.tvfool.com/?option=com_wrapper&Itemid=29&q=id%3d1dda059be1ef9a

I have the DB4e setup faceing about 162 degrees I only have problems with 1 station PBS 39. Would it help if i took off the reflector screen or would there just be too much of a multipath problem.

Thanks Rich

[GroundUrMast]

If you are able to avoid damage to the rear frame tube as you drill the rivets out, go for it... You can always replace the rivets with nuts and bolts.

Yes, you'll be increasing the rearward gain while reducing the forward gain of the antenna and as a result risk multi-path and other problems. You'll just have to experiment to see.

It sounds like you've already wrestled the multi antenna options to the floor... But if I was in the same situation, that would be an option I'd be looking at if the DB4e mod fails.

[darkmatter]

Ok thanks Ground Your Mast.

[darkmatter]

This is my current setup. http://forum.tvfool.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=512&stc=1&d=1366146132

Not sure if the picture will work but this is the setup. All the way to the left by the chimney is a low VHF antenna then to the right of that is the Clearstream C5 for high VHF connected to a low high combiner. To the right of the C5 is the DB4e into a UHF / VHF combiner. Single out to a CPA 19 preamp and into the house. All the way to the right on eave mast is fm antenna with seperate cable into the house. New mast so everything is really stable now. Also changed the directions of the antennas so now I get all the channels that are important to me most full bars cw 80% but solid 39 full bars. Total 45 channels solid. Thanks again for everyone's help. Rich

P.S. Sorry for being a PITA about something's. :-)