Hilly Upstate NY

[Brucifer51]

Hello all! What a great site to find the answers I'm looking for! So here goes.

http://www.tvfool.com/?option=com_wrapper&Itemid=29&q=id%3d3cf4b918c1374a

I can't afford DirecTV anymore! $100+ a month and I don't even get any pay channels! I live on a hill in a modest double wide within an area covered mostly with pine trees. However, there are some open areas. I'm very new to this as this is only my second day of researching the possibility of dropping my too expensive satellite provider and hopefully going with a combination of outdoor antenna and Netflix streaming. I'm interested in knowing if I can get good reception for all 4 networks in Binghamton and what equipment I would need. Thanks for the help!

[John Candle]

Yes you will be receiving the channels to the south west. So lets get some more information. Keep the first tvfool radar report and post a second with the antenna at 30 feet high. How many Tv's will be connected?? With increased antenna height from the default of 10 feet , you will put in 30 feet , the signals will be stronger and I am thinking that all the channels can be received with a Winegard HD7698P antenna and a preamplifier and No rotor.

[John Candle]

How many Tv's will be connected??

[Brucifer51]

http://www.tvfool.com/?option=com_wrapper&Itemid=29&q=id%3d3cf487e9b9985c

I will be connecting 3 digital tvs and 1 analog tv.

[Brucifer51]

I'd like to hook up 3 or 4 HDTV sets.

http://www.tvfool.com/?option=com_wrapper&Itemid=29&q=id%3d3cf487e9b9985c

[GroundUrMast]

A rotator will be a source of frustration if the antenna needs to be aimed in two different directions at once.

So a 4-bay panel such as a DB-4 or CM4221 aimed at 247° (compass) will get WIVT and WSKG. If you pan toward 208° you might be able to get WQPX without loosing the first two. (It's worth trying)

Then aim a Y10713 between 247° and 210° to give you the stations on the high VHF band (WBNG, WICZ, WBRE and the redundant CBS affiliate WYOU).

Use a CM7777 preamplifier to combine the signals into one coax.

You are in an area shadowed by terrain. The signal estimating formula is indicating a not so unusual phenomena, as you go up, at least initially, the signal strength gets worse not better. You can put a variety of elevations into the TVF software to see what altitude you need to reach in order to expect better signal strength. If you find a practical elevation, great, mount up high, otherwise simply mount in an unobstructed, convenient location (Be prepared to 'walk the roof' though, in your situation you may find 'hot' and 'cold' spots within a few feet of one another). When you mount two antennas on one mast, it's best to maintain at least 4' of separation. More is better.

[John Candle]

Ok with the Winegard HD7698P antenna and a Winegard AP8275 preamp mounted at about 20 feet high , point the antenna between 247 magnetic compass and 210 magnetic compass. The weaker stations are at 210 magnetic compass so point the antenna more in that direction. Finding a position that the antenna receives more of the signals of the weaker stations at 210 and not to much reduction of the stronger signals at 247. If 1 Tv is connected do not use a splitter to connect it , If 2 Tv's are connected use a 2 way splitter , if 3 Tv's are connected use a 3 way splitter , If 4 Tv's are connected use a 4 way splitter. The signal is reduced each time a split takes place.

[GroundUrMast]

Johns recommendation is easier to install. Mine is slightly more flexible in that each antenna can be adjusted independently. There's not much difference in cost. Both offer about the same performance.

It's good to have choices... :)

[Brucifer51]

I think I like the 2 antenna method best. How would this setup work for me:

HBU-44 mounted on the roof with a tripod
DB4 mounted on the roof with a j mount
CM7777 preamp
Probably need to ground this right?

Do you think the DB4 will be enough for the distances I need?

[GroundUrMast]

The DB-4 is advertised to have over 13 dB of gain only in the UHF band (CH 14 - 69) It should be more than enough.

An Antennacraft Y10713 is a high band VHF (only) antenna advertised to have over 9 dB of gain.

The Winegard HD7698 is a combination UHF / VHF antenna. It's designed to cover the high VHF band (CH 7 - 13) plus all of the UHF band It is advertised to have from 11 to 14 dB of gain in each band.

The HBU-44 is a combination UHF / VHF antenna. It's designed to cover the high VHF band (CH 7 - 13) plus all of the UHF band It is advertised to have about 8 dB of gain in each band.

My suggestion would be to pick one design or the other, not stir the two together. Yes, I think grounding is a good idea.

John and I are looking at predicted signal levels, not distance. We are able to estimate performance far more accurately using gain and loss values measured in decibels than the non RF measure of distance.

[John Candle]

The weaker stations have hills or mountains between the transmitting antenna and receiving antenna in this situation 2 edge. This reduces signal strength and causes the signals to bend a little. The bending effect creates uneven signal strengths at the receiving antenna heights. In your situation have the antenna lower then 30 feet the signal is stronger. 15 to 20 feet will be a good height for the antenna. You can go to the >>Start MAPS<< part of tvfool , put in your exact address , select pending stations included , and enter different antenna heights , I suspect that improvements in signal strength of 10 NM (dB) or more will be at 60 feet antenna height and higher. Here are places to buy antennas and etc.. http://www.3starinc.com , http://www.solidsignal.com , http://www.starkelectronic.com , http://www.amazon.com . . If you will like to put a antenna 60 feet or higher thats Ok.

[No static at all]

Brucifer,

You are actually quite fortunate to have any receivable channels with the terrain around you. I've been as close to you as the route 12 corridor through the Norwich area. The rolling hills are quite beautiful & it seems as if you are in a valley most all of the time.

I pretty much agree with the others here with the need for a deep fringe antenna. CBS, FOX, ABC & PBS will be pretty easy, but not so sure about NBC or anything below it. Since NBC is the only questionable major network, I would personally choose the strongest VHF antenna available. The 7698 is as good as it gets on VHF-HI, but I feel it will require a direct aim to get NBC 11. You will likely need a rotator to fine tune for unfavorable weather conditions & I also feel spread is just a bit too wide given the signal strengths & terrain conditions. I normally prefer a 2 antenna system, but unfortunately there are no separate VHF antennas that can match the gain of the 7698. Either the Channel Master 7777 or Winegard 8275 would be a good choice for a preamp.

If dead set against using a rotator, you can try to find a sweet spot between Binghamton & Scranton before going that route. You may just get lucky.

[Brucifer51]

Ok, Good Idea. I'll start with the 7698 with the CM7777 and go from there. Maybe add a rotator later. Thanks to all for your input.

[John Candle]

I have been evaluating your responces to our suggestions , so now I will present one more option. Thats 2 separate antenna systems , one system aimed at 247 and a second system aimed at 210. . Thats double of every thing , the antennas the preamps the splitters the coax wiring and etc.. . The 2 separate systems are Not Connected Together. At each Tv location is a Remote Control A/B antenna system switch , With a hand held Remote Control you switch from one antenna to the other antenna. . Yes this is a 'chunk of change' . If the one antenna system is not quite do in it. Then you can add the second system later. Here are remote control A/B antenna switches , http://www.antennasdirect.com/store/remote_control_A_B_switch.html , http://www.radioshack.com , enter 2049643 in the radioshack search box

[Brucifer51]

Great advise, thank you. One more question. Assuming that DirecTV does not take the distribution box that's attached to the side of the house can I use that for this installation?

[GroundUrMast]

The coax cable and grounding block can be reused if they've not been damaged or filled with water. You might get lucky and find a splitter rated for 5 - 2000 MHz. The rest of the satellite distribution components are designed to operate at frequencies above the OTA broadcast bands. Diplexers and switches will be of no value in the OTA system.

[John Candle]

Because the words 'distribution box' Is Not Saying What It Is. Provide the make and model number of the 'distribution box' ?? . If this is a plastic box that protects something in side the box from the weather , then the plastic box is nice but Not the main point. The main point is what is inside the box that the that the coaxial cables are connected to , Make and model number.

[Tigerbangs]

NBC in the Binghamton area is carried by a sub-channel of WICZ: there is no need to go outside of the Binghamton market to get the major networks: You can use a smaller antenna like a Winegard HD7696P or an AntennaCraft HBU-33 along with a preamp like a Winegard AP-8275 or an AntennaCraft 10G222 to get all the major networks.

[No static at all]

NBC in the Binghamton area is carried by a sub-channel of WICZGood catch Tiger, but I would suspect it is only 480i???

[John Candle]

The Tv stations at 210/208 magnetic compass have WQXP-DT 32 ION-TELEVISION. . And WBRE-DT 11 at 210 magnetic compass will have HD 1080i high definition programing. Here are some on line Tv Guides. http://www.titantv.com , http://television.aol.com , http://tvlistings.zap2it.com . . I wonder if tigerbangs seeks to divert you from receiving all the Tv stations and channels and programing that you can.