91XG out in the sticks. To preamp or not to preamp ?

[Name141]

So I bought a 91XG and a RCA ANT(something mini yagi for VHF (KLTV)) combined with a UVSJ . I'm not picking up PBS, and the CW sometimes (and one more that I forgot..) .

Would the preamp help keep the stations that die out and come back when they feel like it/want to / whatever ?

I have the RCA pointed at KLTV for local news, and the 91XG towards Shreveport just for all the big ones (NBC, CBS, ABC , Fox) and they keep about 65 or better and stay mostly stable all the time.

I have the antennas on a 30 foot pole, 45 feet of cable down to the grounding block, 10 grounding block to house, 2 - 4's feets to connect the antennas to the UVSJ. (63 feet in all). I'm also thinking about splitting it up in the house later and running it to a PC for DVR recordings over the PC later.

I'm betting the preamp would be a good idea even before the splitter and extra 25-35 feet to get it back here to a PC ? Or am I wasting time unless I go splitting it up trying to get the other channels that die out ?

http://www.tvfool.com/?option=com_wrapper&Itemid=29&q=id%3dcc499945fb3920

[signals unlimited]

A pre-amplifier will improve your reception.

Replace the joiner with a Winegard AP2870 duel input preamplifier.

You will need to place the amplifier power supply in front of all splitters.

[Name141]

A pre-amplifier will improve your reception.

Replace the joiner with a Winegard AP2870 duel input preamplifier.

You will need to place the amplifier power supply in front of all splitters.

Would an Antennacraft 10G222 work as good with split UHF/VHF ? http://www.solidsignal.com/pview.asp?p=10G222&d=Antennacraft-10G222-High-Gain-VHF%2FUHF-TV-Antenna-Pre-Amplifier-%2810G222%29&sku=610370581155

[signals unlimited]

The Winegard duel input is a better choice, however the Antennacraft should produce the same results.

[Name141]

The Winegard duel input is a better choice, however the Antennacraft should produce the same results.

Could I ask what the "duel input" is ? Is it basically a split UHF/VHF antenna input too ? Or is there something I'm missing? Also would I need DC blocks to the VIP722 and PC ?

[signals unlimited]

The 2870 amplifier has seperate inputs, for UHF and VHF. That allows you to eliminate the joiner and use the amplifier for signal combinding of your UHF and VHF antennas.

[Name141]

The 2870 amplifier has seperate inputs, for UHF and VHF. That allows you to eliminate the joiner and use the amplifier for signal combinding of your UHF and VHF antennas.

OK. Would there be anything 'wrong' with going cheap and getting a http://www.solidsignal.com/pview.asp?p=10G212&d=AntennaCraft-10G212-30-dB-High-Gain-TV/FM-Mast-Mounted-TV-Antenna-Amplifier-%2810G212%29&sku=716079001809 instead with an attenuator built in and leaving the UVSJ to join the 2 ?

[signals unlimited]

As I mentioned, that will work, but my recommendation is to use the 2870. A better product and a better configuration.

[Stereocraig]

Doesn't it seem that sometimes, people aren't willing to buy it right, but have no problems buying it twice?

[Name141]

Doesn't it seem that sometimes, people aren't willing to buy it right, but have no problems buying it twice?

As StoneCold would say: What?

The Winegard is nearly double the price on top of all ready tossing $140-150 on this setup.

[Stereocraig]

You're usually better off, spending the extra money for a better quality product.
Not only dollar wise, but I'm not too crazy about climbing up and down my towers.

[Name141]

You're usually better off, spending the extra money for a better quality product.
Not only dollar wise, but I'm not too crazy about climbing up and down my towers.

That's true, but how is it better ? even when presented with a product that had split UHF and VHF like the Winegard the winegard was still presented as the better product, but the question of how never was answered.

Is it better build quality ? more dbs ? what ?

[Stereocraig]

It looks like the Winegards, are actually equal, or cheaper.
Their gain is lower, but I think other companies are more likely to fudge on their specs.
Plus, I just trutst the Winegard name a little more.

Build quality is important too.

[GroundUrMast]

While gain is an important factor, more is not always better. A preamplifiers job is to overcome the loss in cable and splitters as well as poor tuner noise figure. Gain in excess of those needs may not hurt, but may come at the 'cost' of the preamplifier being easier to overload.

You have a few medium strength signals and a high gain antenna. The AP2870 would have a bit better resistance to overload than the 10G222 which is sold as a weak signal, deep fringe preamp. Both have similar noise performance and switchable FM traps in addition to the separate UHF & VHF inputs. I would lean toward the AP2870.

[Name141]

All right. I'll try the AP2870 then. Once I get it, I would want a DC block on the VIP722 to prevent it frying the DISHNetwork DVR?

Later, when if I decide to do the PC-DVR idea and buy a splitter and more cabling, could I use the DC block at the front of the splitter, then the amp'd coax , then the splitter legs to the VIP722 and PC ? Or do I want to do something else so that the coax is amped all the way through the splitter too , with DC blocks on the VIP722 still, and the PC OTA tuner ?

edit: also doing away with UVSJ and use the preamp as the joiner for the RCA and 91XG, correct ?

[GroundUrMast]

The power insertion block includes a DC block on the 'TV' port. Take a look at figure four in the product manual, http://www.winegarddirect.com/pdf/manual_AD-HDP.pdf No power is sent toward the TV.

[Name141]

The power insertion block includes a DC block on the 'TV' port. Take a look at figure four in the product manual, http://www.winegarddirect.com/pdf/manual_AD-HDP.pdf No power is sent toward the TV.

OK, so uh.. what's a "drain loop" :confused: . Also, since I don't want to pick up FM stations, I would want to set the FM Trap to "Fixed Trap In" ?

[Stereocraig]

OK, so uh.. what's a "drain loop" :confused: . Also, since I don't want to pick up FM stations, I would want to set the FM Trap to "Fixed Trap In" ?

Wherever the coax connects, make sure you run it down past that point and then back up to the connection, or the opening in the building. I have always called it a drip loop, but maybe that's just a loose translation.
Look around at how other people's satellite and cable wires are on the outside where the service drop is.

Yes, FM trap in.

[Name141]

Wherever the coax connects, make sure you run it down past that point and then back up to the connection, or the opening in the building. I have always called it a drip loop, but maybe that's just a loose translation.
Look around at how other people's satellite and cable wires are on the outside where the service drop is.

Yes, FM trap in.

So in reality, it's just a little 'extra slack' ?

[Stereocraig]

So in reality, it's just a little 'extra slack' ?


That's exactly what it is.
No different than anything else, that people feel deserves a big fancy name:D

[Name141]

That's exactly what it is.
No different than anything else, that people feel deserves a big fancy name:D

Not sure how I'd do that with the VHF/RCA antenna anyway, since it's under the 91XG. I only bought 2 - 4 feet lines to connect them to the UVSJ. I guess I could try to put the preamp below the antennas, and raise the RCA towards the UHF antenna to have enough room for a small 'loop' at the bottom ?

Do I need to keep the RCA a special distance from the 91XG to prevent 'interference' or anything ?

[GroundUrMast]

A 'drip-loop' aka, 'drain-loop' needs a few extra inches of cable, not feet. The idea is, water does not flow up hill. Rain water running down a cable should not be directed into a hole in the side of the house or onto a connector at the end of the cable. By running the cable down below the hole in the siding or a connector at the UVSJ, etc. then up a couple of inches, all the rain water will drip or drain away without causing trouble.

If you can separate the 91XG and the other antenna by at least 3' (more is better) you should not have much interaction between them. A 4' cable from the top antenna down to a UVSJ and another 4' cable from the UVSJ down to the lower antenna should provide 7' separation if cable length was all that needed to be considered.

[Name141]

A 'drip-loop' aka, 'drain-loop' needs a few extra inches of cable, not feet. The idea is, water does not flow up hill. Rain water running down a cable should not be directed into a hole in the side of the house or onto a connector at the end of the cable. By running the cable down below the hole in the siding or a connector at the UVSJ, etc. then up a couple of inches, all the rain water will drip or drain away without causing trouble.

If you can separate the 91XG and the other antenna by at least 3' (more is better) you should not have much interaction between them. A 4' cable from the top antenna down to a UVSJ and another 4' cable from the UVSJ down to the lower antenna should provide 7' separation if cable length was all that needed to be considered.

ah, sounds like a little curve is all it is.

[GroundUrMast]

Yes.

Here are a few examples:

http://activerain.com/blogsview/3168531/drip-loop-really-do-you-need-it-wenatchee-and-leavenworth-home-inspection

In this example, extra cable length is stored as a 'service-loop'. The extra cable might be needed at some point in the future or factory built cable was longer than needed. Use this if you anticipate moving or rearranging the cabling. See step 1: http://www.diyadvice.com/diy/electrical/data/installing-tv-cable/

Avoid sharp bends.