Need Help with Selection

[PeteyMcp]

I've decided it's time for me to dump my basic cable and go OTA. I'm hoping someone could recommend an antenna and answer a couple of basic questions:

I'd prefer an attic install, but more importantly, I'd like clear reception, should I absolutely go to a roof mount?

We are surrounded by trees, but certain directions are less dense. Does a single tree cause a problem, or is only if you're pointing in the direction of a forest?

Here's the info: http://www.tvfool.com/?option=com_wrapper&Itemid=29&q=id%3d2df9840a08f764

Any help/input is welcome and appreciated!

Brian

[signals unlimited]

Yes, even one tree will reduce but not stop the stronger stations on your report. For reception of the weaker stations to your NE, you need to be in the clear in that direction if possible.

Outside above your roofline will be best.

You have channels in all bands (UHF/HighVHF/LowVHF), so I recommend you install a Winegard 8200U all channel antenna with a WInegard AP8700 pre-amplifier.

Reception from all directions on your report requires the use of a rotor or multipul antennas. I recommend you install a Channel Master 9521 rotor.

[No static at all]

I don't see any receivable low band stations? Wouldn't a Winegard 7698 be a better choice.

[teleview]

Your location Does Not have receivable Tv stations in all 3 channel bands.

The VHF low band channels are 2 thru 6.

WLBZ channel 2 with a signal strength of minus -3.8 NM(dB) , is 106.5 miles away , Will Not be received.

WGCI-LD channel 4 with a signal strength of minus -14.5 NM(dB) , is 73.3 miles away , Will Not be received.

The HD8200U is WAY TO MUCH antenna for your location.

No antenna rotator is required.

_____________________________________________


The other 2 Tv channel bands are ,

VHF high band channels 7 thru 13.

UHF band channels 14 thru 51.

Your location has receivable Tv stations channels in the Channel band of ,

VHF high band channels 7 thru 13.

UHF band channels 14 thru 51.

__

For reception of the Digital Tv stations/channels in the Green and Yellow reception zones of the Current Plus Pending Applications at your location.

Install a ANT751 antenna aimed at about 360 degree magnetic compass direction.

Here is how to aim antennas , http://www.kyes.com/antenna/pointing/pointing.html.

As always the ANT751 antenna has some forward signal gain and is not a very directional antenna and Will receive the Tv stations to the , north , north west , south west , south , north east.

http://www.solidsignal.com , has a ANT751 antenna with a J type antenna mount , low dollars.

For 1 Tv connected use no splitter.

For 2 Tv's connected use a common simple 2 way splitter.

For 3 or 4 Tv's connected use a Channel Master CM3414 distribution amplifier.

Here are some places to buy antennas and etc. , http://www.solidsignal.com , http://www.amazon.com , http://www.channelmasterstore.com.

As always , trees and tree leaves do a real fine job of reducing or blocking Tv reception and so do buildings and other obstructions.

It is best to install a antenna at a location that has the least amount to no amount of obstructions of any type or kind in the directions of reception.

At your location that is , north , north west , south west , south , north east.

The Tv/s Must Channel Scan for the Broadcast Tv Channels , sometimes named the 'Air Channels' or 'Antenna Channels' in the Tv setup menu because the Tv transmissions travel through the air from the transmitting antenna to the receiving antenna.

DO NOT channel scan for cable tv channels

[signals unlimited]

You do have one low V possible. If that is of no value, the High VHF/UHF will work fine.

If you can just as easily handle the larger antenna, there is no harm and it will be there should any low VHF pop up.

[No static at all]

Which low VHF is possible? Unless I'm missing something, Channel 2 looks to be impossible @ 106 miles away.

[teleview]

WMEA , WMED , WMNE , WCBB , are All the same PBS , http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Maine_Public_Broadcasting_Network.

And there are No receivable low band Tv stations.

So there is No requirement for any type or kind of large antenna to receive the receivable Tv stations/channels.

Here is information about , WCSH and WLBZ , http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/WCSH.

A Tv antenna rotator is not required.

[PeteyMcp]

Thanks for the input. If channel 2 is the only additional channel, I'm not sure I would need it since there is another NBC affiliate available.

Is there anyway to get the major channels (PBS, NBC, ABC, CBS, Fox) without having to use a rotor? I'm trying to keep this somewhat simple, so although I'm not opposed if it's necessary, I'm hoping to get away from it.

The other question I have has to do with the size. If I'm reading this right, these antennas are 14' long, is that correct? I've prepped my wife for an antenna, but I'm not sure I've prepped her for something of that size. Do I have any other options to reduce the size a bit without killing reception?

Again, I'm not trying to make something happen that is not possible, I'm just trying to see what my options are.

Thanks.

Brian

[elmo]

You've got a handful of them right there in your backyard it seems. I'd guess you have a good amt of elevation changes around you since you seem to have towers in all different directions.

The further you can get from the trees, the better. I had oaks, pines and poplars around me that made it tough to tune consistently during the summer due to all the leaves, especially when the wind was blowing. They were just 20 ft from the house on the receiving side. It was a battle to tweak and tune with just two tower locations both of which were relatively close. Winter was much better reception-wise.

You got any antennas to play with? Rabbit ears or a old bowtie in that box of junk in the attic?! Hard to compare to a big aerial on the roof, but you can get an idea.

[PeteyMcp]

Thanks everyone. I think I'll give the RCA antenna a shot, that seems much more likely to get the approval of my wife. Plus, that setup won't hit the wallet quite as hard.

I should definitely install this on the roof, correct?

One other question, which will show you how little I know about television. I know these signals are digital, but are they all HD? Is that the same thing?

Thanks again to everyone.

Brian

[elmo]

There's both digital and analog broadcasts out there. All your big networks will be digital. As for HD, you'll find channels, especially subchannels sometimes are not HD. And subchannels, take say, your old channel 9, it's now 9.1 for the main and 9.2, 9.3, etc for subchannels. And don't get confused by "HD" marketing. An old 1982 rooftop antenna would work fine today. There's no requirement for an antenna to be HD compatible.

[teleview]

Digital Broadcast Tv transmission and reception is --> Digital Broadcast Tv transmission and reception.

HD is --> one part <-- of Digital Broadcast Tv transmission and reception.

HD is picture resolutions of , 720P , 1080i , 1080P.

There is also the standard definitions of , 480i and 480P , picture resolutions.

Most Digital Tv's will display the information of the resolution of the picture that is being shown.

There is some 60 + years of the Original Analog standard of 480i that is shown on tv from the past.

With digital processing , much of the 480i from the past is 'cleaned up' for a better picture.

Many people are hung up on the word HD High Definition , it's , HD this and HD that and HD , HD , HD , HD , like a mantra chant.

The Most Important part of Digital Broadcast Tv transmission and reception is --> Digital shows a Nice Clear Picture.

Clearer then cable and satellite.

Here is a challenge for you that was popular conversation several years ago when Digital Broadcast Tv was new , see if you can see any difference in the picture clarity of , 720P , 1080i , 1080P.

_____________________________________________________

Yes the ANT751 is going Above the Roof and yes it is best to install the antenna at a location that has the least amount to no amount of obstructions of any type or kind in the directions of reception and that includes your own house.

[PeteyMcp]

Thanks again for the input.

For the trees, the direction I need to aim definitely has trees. In order to mitigate the effects of the trees, do I need to attempt to get the antenna above the trees (not possible), or is there some way to tell from the reports what the incident angle between the antenna and the trees would need to be?

I can move away from the trees to the other end of the house to add some distance and decrease the angle, and I can definitely try to increase the height either through an eave mount or a chimney mount. But if I know what minimum angle would give me the best reception, I have a starting point.

How tall of a mast is practical for the installation?

Brian

[teleview]

The best way to test reception is to temporary mount the antenna at different locations. Start with what looks like a good location.

The tvfool radar plot shows the the directions of the Tv transmitters.

As to antenna height , higher is usually better.

As to the height of the mast pipe , above the antenna mount , the target number is , 10 feet or more mast pipe above the mount will require guy wires.

I avoid guy wires , it is better to have a taller actual mount , that way no guy wires.

However this information about , higher , higher and higher --> Does Not Mean <-- that it is 100% certain that the antenna does need to go higher , it is simply information about going higher.

Start with this action --> Start with what looks like a good location <-- for the antenna.

I start by looking for the easy location that also takes in to consideration the reception situation.

'You know' , like the directions of the transmitters and obstructions that are in the way.

And yes it is a good idea to move the antenna away from trees.

Trees get a -->great satisfaction<-- beating up antennas.

And aiming a antenna in to a thick dense tree that is a few feet away is not a good idea for reception.

Yes the reception situation is better if the tree is - skinny tree - with not much to it.

As to incident angle , this is a situation that is best learned buy you looking at and evaluating distances and angles , (going off the deep end into math is not required) , and trying the antenna reception at the location/s.

Most likely , the goal is to get reliable reception , not all out - pull out all the stops maximum reception.

[PeteyMcp]

So I've finally hot the Antenna installed, it's an RCA-751R installed above my roof, roughly 25 feet above the ground. It is wired as directly as possible to the only TV we have. There is a grounding block and a single splice connector, but other than that, it's direct. I had the TV search for OTA channels, and came back with quite a few. I get FOX (23.1), PBS (10.1) ABC (8.1) CW (51.1) MyN (35.1), plus a couple other stations. However, I'm not receiving NBC (6.1) or CBS (13.1). They appear to be similar strength signals, and similar directions, the NBC tower is right next to the ABC tower. Not have these channels is a deal breaker for my wife.

Any ideas on what might be happening here and how to fix?

[elmo]

WAF is important! ;-)

So what direction does the 751 point to now? I assume you were able to tune NBC & CBS by turning the antenna towards a NW direction? You typically have to work to find the sweet spot for a single antenna. If your TV has a signal strength indicator, that can help you. Typically you want 70% or better.

As for why you aren't seeing NBC when it's close to ABC, the main difference is the broadcast frequency of Ch 8 vs Ch 6. On the chart, Ch 6 NBC is broadcast on UHF 44 (aka, Real 44). Ch 8 ABC is on VHF 8. Those signals are a a good ways apart on the scale. If you compare it to audio, it's kinda like a tweeter vs a woofer - you can hear the woofer from the kid driving past you well before you can hear his tweeter. So there has to be two different parts of your antenna that work to tune each of those. That doesn't help you fix it, but I hope it helps you understand it more.

[teleview]

WCSH-DT REAL UHF channel 44 , virtual number (6.1) NBC.

And

WGME-DT REAL UHF channel 35 , virtual number (13.1) CBS.

Are both more toward the north west , it is Ok to turn the ANT751 antenna more toward the north west.

Here is how to aim antennas , http://www.kyes.com/antenna/pointing/pointing.html.

Tv antenna aiming is not 100% plug and play.

Many reception situations require adjustment of the the aim and location of the antenna for best reception.

This is normal , it is the way it is.

I recommend aim the ANT751 more toward the north west.

And do a double channel rescan.

Digital Tv tuners can develop , Digital Glitches , that are not cleared out with a simple channel scan.
http://www.fcc.gov/rescan.html.

Adjust the antenna aim for strongest reception of , NBC and CBS.

Most Digital Tv's have a built in signal strength meter , and some digital Tv's also have a built in signal quality meter.

Also the ANT751 needs to be at a location that has the least amount to no amount obstructions of any type or kind in the directions of reception including your own house.

The directions of reception at your location are , north east , north , north west , south west , south.

Trees and tree leaves do a real fine job of reducing and blocking Tv reception and so do buildings and other obstructions.

All coax and couplers and grounding blocks and matching transformer (balun) are suspect of being bad.

As a test , I recommend install a new matching transformer (balun) to the ANT751 antenna and run a new Loooong coax from the matching transformer directly to the Tv.

This is all a normal process of finding possible problems of the antenna system.

Tv antenna set up and reception is not 100% plug and play.

A preamplifier may need to be installed for your reception situation , a Antennas Direct CAP-19 preamp.

However a preamp is not a substitute for fixing antenna aim and possible problems with the antenna system.

Driving a car is not 100% plug and play.

Shopping is not 100% plug and play.

Raising kids is not 100% plug and play.

Tv's are not 100% plug and play.

[PeteyMcp]

This may seem silly, but I hadn't even thought of direction being the problem. I haven't adjusted it since I first positioned it. Truth be told, it's probably aimed a bit East of 360 magnetic North.

I ran through all of the channels we get, and ABC, which is near NBC and not too far off of CBS, has the lowest signal of all of the channels we're getting. It's about 40-45%. Since CBS, ABC, and NBC have the weakest available signal, and I should be able to aim the antenna further West to pick those up, and should still be able to pick up the stronger signals that are a bit further East.

Does that make sense? Or am I oversimplifying?

I'm going to work on direction tomorrow while my wife keeps and eye on signal and hopefully work this out.

Thanks for the help.

[elmo]

Makes good sense to me. Reception is best at the direction of the boom. With the 751, it's pretty good towards the sides, but it does drop off.

Just a few tips from a guy who went up a ladder a few times. Note your signal strengths before you tweak so you can compare. Make sure your wife knows how to pull up signal strength on the TV. Take a phone w/you and put it on speaker. Hopefully it comes together for you!

[PeteyMcp]

So I spent some time working on aiming today and didn't have great results. I was able to register a signal on NBC, but not enough to pick it up. I couldn't get anything for CBS. I occasionally lost FOX when working on picking up NBC and CBS. I definitely have trees around the house, but it's winter, and they're mostly leafless at this point. It's not overly dense either, and the trees aren't right up against the antenna.

Where do I go now? I could probably go up another 6 or 8 feet if that would help, but I'd have to but a new mast and mount. Do I look into an amp of some sort, or would that only work if I was getting a weak signal as opposed to no signal? Do I have to think about a bigger antenna?

[GroundUrMast]

If you can do so safely, placing the antenna above the nearby trees is the single best improvement available.

The ANT-751 is a compromise in size and gain, with the hope that it will not be too directional. It needs a clear view of the horizon.

The alternative is to opt for a larger antenna but that will force you to install a rotator to make the most use of it.

You need a stable signal from the antenna before applying an amplifier... the purpose of which is to overcome losses on the output side of the amplifier.

[PeteyMcp]

Thanks for the input. I will probably try to simulate a higher mast by getting up on the roof and holding the antenna up over my head and checking for signal. Other than safety, are there any other concerns with me doing this, i.e. me holding the antenna affecting the signal?

I definitely won't get over the trees, but I'd like to see if it helps. Here's a view from the current antenna height (About 20' above grade, about a foot above the roof) in the direction of CBS, which I do not get at all: http://i47.photobucket.com/albums/f181/Pitreau/IMG-20121208-00159.jpg

Here is the direction of ABC and NBC, I get ABC no problem, I don't get NBC at all. I am aware that the Maple is going to cause me problems in the Summer, it may not be long for this world as we're thinking about having it removed: http://i47.photobucket.com/albums/f181/Pitreau/IMG-20121208-00158.jpg

And here is the direction of Fox, CW, MyN, and PBS, all of which we get very clearly: http://i47.photobucket.com/albums/f181/Pitreau/IMG-20121208-00160.jpg

ABC has a signal strength around 60-70, all of the others that we receive are in the 80-90 range.

Based on these photos, and I fighting a losing battle? There are other people in the area with antennas and similar if not worse tree cover. I may knock on a couple of doors to see how their reception is, or if they're even using the antennas any more.

I'm wondering if the hill in the direction of CBS and ABC/NBC may be blocking the signal, and maybe getting up another 8-10 feet will solve the problem.

[teleview]

Get the antenna up Higher.

I see a white pipe sticking out of the roof , Duck tape a Looooong pipe or put sections of antenna mast together , duck taped to the white pipe.

Is there a chimney on the house?? Can lash a Looooong pipe/mast sections to the chimney for a test of reception.

The reason I recommended the ANT751 is because it is small and as such is not a very directional antenna.

The Tv transmitters are at different locations around the compass.
And the not very directional ANT751 antenna receives to the , front , front angles , back , back angles , to the antenna. The sides of a antenna has the least reception.

The bigger a antenna is the more gain it has in the forward direction and less gain in other directions.

At this point I recommend connect a Antennas Direct CPA-19 preamplifier.

Preamplifiers can help with reception , but are not a substitute for getting signal , getting signal is the antennas job , and antennas receive better with little obstructions or no obstructions in the way of reception.

http://www.solidsignal.com , http://www.amazon.com.

Have only 1 Tv connected , no splitters.

Being that I am not there to look at the reception situation when I recommend antennas I do my best to find a balance of directions to receive and signal strengths.

This works out most of the time.

In 98% of my recommendations I go to great lengths to point out the tree situations and obstructions situations as to reception of Tv transmissions.

Because I know that most question askers place little importance to the importance of reception situations.


Your reception situation is not hopeless.

Your reception situation is a chalange.

Also might have to go to a bigger antenna , I am thinking , possibly a Winegard HD7696P antenna.

I am doing my best to strike a balance of antenna size and directions of reception and get all Tv stations with one antenna.

[PeteyMcp]

Thanks for the feedback Teleview. I can definitely get the antenna up higher, I just wanted to make sure it made sense before I went through the effort. The chimney is lower than the roof line in the photos I added. Rather than mounting the antenna from the plumbing vent, can't I just install a gable mount? The ridge line in the photo with the plumbing vent is from the gable I would mount off of, so I see no benefit to mounting off the vent unless you know of one. How high should I get this thing? Are you talking 10 feet? Or should I be looking at getting it up even higher? I'd prefer to stay away from guy wires unless absolutely necessary.

Should I try the pre-amp first, or the added height first?

Brian

[teleview]

Using the white vent pipe is a temporary mount.

The operative word for antenna height is -->Higher<--.

A Looong pipe can be used to get the antenna Higher.

Antenna mast pipe sections can also be connected together to get the antenna Higher.

And finding a location for the antenna where the trees are lower and less dense in directions of reception.

And trees distance away from antenna is better for directions of reception.

Tv antennas receive better when little to nothing is blocking reception.

Here is a way to get the antenna - Higher - http://www.ronard.com/Tripods%200703/4712.html.

And then mast pipe sections are put together to make the antenna about 10 feet higher then the top of the tripod antenna mount if required to get reliable reception of the Weak reception Tv transmissions.

No guy wires will be required.

The tripod antenna mount can be moved around on the roof to find a location has the best reception of the Tv transmissions.

Yes the preamplifier can be added now , however the preamplifier is not a substitute for getting the antenna Higher and finding a location where the Tv transmissions are stronger.

[PeteyMcp]

So another update. I borrowed a signal loss/gain meter from a co-worked, and from the antenna to the TV I'm only losing about 1.2db. When I was playing around, I decided to re-scan for channels and it looks like I'm actually receiving CBS now, I must have tweaked the aim and not re-scanned. Using the signal strength indicator on the TV, I played around a bit with the aim, and I was able to get NBC and CBS, but not at the same time.

I decided I would try out the Pre-amp to see if that helped. I had to return the ladder I was borrowing yesterday, so I decided to see if I could get it to work I would get what I could from RadioShack. I ended up with this: http://www.radioshack.com/product/index.jsp?productId=3770519&filterName=Type&filterValue=Amplifiers

After installing everything, it appeared to be DOA, I lost all of the channels I had. I'm not sure if it was blocking the signal, or if something was disconnected within one of the units. I removed it and all of the channels came back. I'm going to return the unit and order the recommended unit from Amazon, hopefully I can get my hands on another ladder.

Slowly but surely.

Brian

[teleview]

I Never Recommend radio shack Tv preamplifiers or distribution amplifiers.

They are defective even when working.
_____________________________________

For testing of reception have No splitters connected.

[PeteyMcp]

Thanks Teleview, I knew better, I was just trying to cram in a fix before I lost the ladder. I'm actually happy that it didn't work since I ended up reading reviews today of that amplifier and they're pretty bad. Looks like most fail within a few months. I'm going to order the antennas direct pre-amp today and hopefully get it installed before winter really sets in.

If that gets me NBC and CBS, I'll probably stick with that until the leaves come in in the spring, and then I'll re-evaluate the height of the antenna.

Thanks again for the help.

[PeteyMcp]

I hate to resurrect this thread, but I FINALLY got a ladder and was able to make some modifications. I have the antenna in the same location, but up about 10'. I also added in a pre-amp on the mast. Before making any of these changes, I flipped on the TV and checked reception. I had lost some channels that I had previously received very clearly, I assume due to the leaves coming in. FOX and PBS disappeared, I can't remember if ABC did as well, but the signal was definitely week. When I first moved the height up 10', I checked reception and I think I added PBS back in, but still didn't have Fox and most of the channels were borderline. I added the pre-amp, and now I reliably receive all of the channels I had previously received before the leaves grew in, but still, no NBC or CBS. I tried adjusting the aim for a while with my wife watching the signal and never got reception on either NBC or CBS. Every so often NBC would flicker to a 30% signal, but it never lasted and we never actually got the channel to show up.

That big tree in the second photo I previously posted is a bear. Is it hopeless to get signal through that tree? I'd be curious to see if I get NBC and CBS after the leaves die off in the fall.

What else can I do here? I'd hate to go to a bigger antenna and a rotator, but I'm not sure what else I have for options. Getting ABOVE the tree seems pretty much impossible.

Any input is greatly appreciated.

Brian

[elmo]

I'd assume your best signal reception for each problem channel is when you point right at each, although if blocked dead ahead, a little left or right tweak may boost your gain.

A larger antenna will likely help, but it may bring it's own issues. The bigger the antenna, the more directional it tends to be. Think of it like a flood light vs a spot light. Two 100w'ers aimed the same direction. One will light up a wide range, but not deep. The other will put a beam far away w/o much surrounding light. That's a way to imagine how the small and large antennas compare. So that smaller antenna allows you to aim between two signals and pick up some of each. If they're far away, (or blocked to some degree) you don't get enough of either to matter. If direct aim doesn't help, then a larger antenna aimed directly may do it. But you typically can't expect it to give you both if aimed between.

Multiple antennas can help but you have to have the tuners or switching to manage multiple signals. The other way is installing a rotor. If you can tune each when aimed dead on, then the rotor would do that for you on demand. It's a PITA, but it is an option.

Outside of that, I do wonder if something like the AD ClearStream 2-V would help you out, in terms of having the reflector on it. You could always try to go bigger.

But in the end, nearby trees are gonna likely impact your reception.

[PeteyMcp]

Thanks Elmo,

Even with direct aim, I can't pick up NBC or CBS reliably. I've never picked up NBC, and CBS I received for a short time in the winter, but I can only get blips of reception now, never enough to deliver a picture.

I'm reluctant to install a rotor, but if a larger, directional antenna and a rotor is the only option, I'll go that route. Is a Winegard HD7696P, as previously recommended by Teleview the best option?

What's the general feedback on the Clearstream 2V? The two channels I can't get are UHF, 38 and 44. Do certain antenna's do better with UHF vs. VHF?

[elmo]

Typically, the bigger the antenna, the more directional it becomes. Think of it as the 751 is like a floodlight - the 7696 is more of a spotlight; the spotlight will have longer reach, but it's more about where it's pointed, not a wide area.

What you need is more gain. A bigger antenna will have that. And if you check out some good antenna websites, you'll find the specs on the antennas being sold. A gain chart is what you are after. Every antenna varies in how much gain is has for a given frequency. So if you can find those numbers, you can see which have more gain on the channels you are having issues with. Just be sure that you are looking at the Real Ch # - not the virtual #'s - when you compare. Some gain charts will show frequency and others will show Ch #'s. You can map those with a table of frequency and channels; ie, Ch 14 = 470-476 MHz. So given that, you identify your problem channels and start checking out gain charts to find the best performer in that range.

The 751 has a couple of small elements there on the front. Those are for UHF. The longer rod elements at the back are for VHF. So to get more UHF gain, you need more UHF elements. Sometimes you'll see a corner reflector just behind the UHF elements to help boost that reception. The HD7696p has all of that. If you look around, you'll see various versions of the HD76xx antennas for comparison.

The CS2-V is a design that's different from the types you're looking at now, obviously. It's primarily a UHF by design with a reflector. The V adds an element for VHF reception.

[PeteyMcp]

Elmo,

Do you know where i can get my hands on a gain chart for the RCA-751R? I'm trying to compare the charts on all of these antennas to see if that tells me anything.

[PeteyMcp]

OK, I think I'm going to go with a bigger antenna and install a rotator if needed. The previously recommended winegard appears to be discontinued. What would be the current model that I should go with. Would a 7694P work? Or are there other options that might be better?

Any suggestion on a rotator?

[GroundUrMast]

I've never seen RCA publish much in the way of technical specs.

For a very crude estimation, compare the HBU-11 by Antennacraft - http://www.antennacraft.net/pdfs/HBU11_.pdf

Is a telescoping mast a reasonable option for you? http://www.3starinc.com/telescoping_masts.html It would require guy wires and some able bodied help to raise it safely. The ANT-751 has a good shot at working for you if it can clear the tree tops.

I'm currently working on a tree mounted system... about 90' up a Western Red Cedar. A couple months of cable bills paid for the climbing gear...

If you're going to be forced to remain low (below the trees), use the biggest antenna available... the 7694 would be an improvement over the ANT-751, but not enough. go up to the HD7698P and a good rotator.

[PeteyMcp]

Thanks for the input. I just don't see how I can get up high enough to clear the trees. Depending on how high the transmitter is, I may be able to run a couple of quick calculations to see if I can get up high enough, but not above, the tree to provide a clear path over the tree from the antenna to the transmitter. I see on the TV Fool report that there is an elevation profile, but it doesn't give me the actual height above see level, or relative height, of the transmitter. Is that available somewhere?

I also wanted to point out that the real problem tree only should be affecting NBC and ABC. I receive ABC no problem, but NBC I don't get at all. The signal for ABC is stronger, but not a ton, however, it's Hi-V as opposed to NBC which is UHF. Would that influence the antenna choice at all if I decide to change? Do you know anything about the HD Stacker from Denny's? Is it worth just staying with Winegard due to the history of quality manufacturing?

For what it's worth, the people in my area, which appears to be in an area of weaker reception for these channels due to the presence of a large hill, all seem to have larger directional antennas, most with rotators.

[PeteyMcp]

Thanks for the input. I just don't see how I can get up high enough to clear the trees. Depending on how high the transmitter is, I may be able to run a couple of quick calculations to see if I can get up high enough, but not above, the tree to provide a clear path over the tree from the antenna to the transmitter. I see on the TV Fool report that there is an elevation profile, but it doesn't give me the actual height above see level, or relative height, of the transmitter. Is that available somewhere?

I also wanted to point out that the real problem tree only should be affecting NBC and ABC. I receive ABC no problem, but NBC I don't get at all. The signal for ABC is stronger, but not a ton, however, it's Hi-V as opposed to NBC which is UHF. Would that influence the antenna choice at all if I decide to change? Do you know anything about the HD Stacker from Denny's? Is it worth just staying with Winegard due to the history of quality manufacturing?

For what it's worth, the people in my area, which appears to be in an area of weaker reception for these channels due to the presence of a large hill, all seem to have larger directional antennas, most with rotators.

[PeteyMcp]

Ok, hate to resurrect this, but I figured I would close it out. I ended up getting a Winegard HD7697P and installed it today. I pointed it directly at CBS which is about mid way between the two extreme directions. I picked up CBS and was happy to see I also picked up everything else even with the more directional antenna, and most of them are more solid than with the RCA. Unfortunately I still can't get NBC. I pointed it right at NBC and didn't get anything. I tried fine tuning the aim, but I realized after the fact that something funny was going on where I wasn't getting any stations. I might try again tomorrow and see if I can get NBC. Rather than tree trimming or putting up a very tall tower, I think we're just going to live without NBC.

Thanks for all of the help, sorry to drag this out so long, but I think I'm finally happy with what I have.

That being said, if anyone has any easy thoughts on NBC, let me know, otherwise I'll let this thread fade into oblivion.

Thanks again.

[GroundUrMast]

Experiment with extremely low mounting... and all available levels on the existing roof mast. (Just a last ditch 'Hail-Mary' idea.)

[teleview]

Digital Tv tuners can develop - Digital Glitches - that are not cleared out with simple channel scans.

Do Double rescan , http://www.wchstv.com/DoubleReScanAlert.pdf