Do I need a preamp, or a new antenna?

[cassb]

Hi! I was up in the attic adjusting the antenna last night and was pulling in some pretty distant stations, albeit with a weak signal but still enough to capture the digital picture. I had the TV right up there with me next to the antenna and aimed the antenna based on the TV's signal strength meter for the weaker stations.

But this morning, now I can't pull in the same channels (like WPBS and WUTV) that were working OK last night with the TV installed into its original place (with about 100' of 75 ohm cable directly to the antenna). So I'm wondering if a preamp would work in this situation, and which one would meet my needs. Can you help?

Here's my map link.

http://www.tvfool.com/?option=com_wrapper&Itemid=29&q=id%3d9900a924f9fd62

And the antenna I have is one I got from Antennas Direct a few years ago, the 42XG:

http://www.antennasdirect.com/store/42XG_television_antenna.html


Or... instead of a preamp, would a newer antenna like this one be more effective than a preamp on the existing one? http://www.antennasdirect.com/store/ClearStream-C2-VHF-Combo.html

Thanks!
Bryan

[thom]

Both stations you mention are distant 2Edge stations (70-100+ miles). Given the distance, you're subject to all kinds of atmospheric phenomena that can produce tantalizing or frustrating results, depending on your orientation.

The signal coming from the tower isn't like a frozen rope, it's going to constantly refract over those edges and twist and bend on the way to your antenna. Sometimes the coefficients of the reception equation all converge in the right direction and you get what appears to be a highly improbable signal. Other times, you won't even get a blip on your signal meter.

So, if you find this frustrating, buying a new preamp and antenna will probably just increase your frustration. If you find it intriguing, the parts are generally affordable, so it's not a huge outlay of cash as a hobby. It's all about your own expectations, though. (hence the Moby Dick reference)

That said, the 42XG is a capable antenna, but moving it outside would be a cheaper first step. You could look also at the 91XG or DB4e with the VHF add-on as well as the PA-19/18 preamps. Most of the gain data is readily available on the web, so you can compare your 42XG to others from AD as well as the other majors like Winegard and AntennaCraft.

[cassb]

Both stations you mention are distant 2Edge stations (70-100+ miles). Given the distance, you're subject to all kinds of atmospheric phenomena that can produce tantalizing or frustrating results, depending on your orientation.

The signal coming from the tower isn't like a frozen rope, it's going to constantly refract over those edges and twist and bend on the way to your antenna. Sometimes the coefficients of the reception equation all converge in the right direction and you get what appears to be a highly improbable signal. Other times, you won't even get a blip on your signal meter.

So, if you find this frustrating, buying a new preamp and antenna will probably just increase your frustration. If you find it intriguing, the parts are generally affordable, so it's not a huge outlay of cash as a hobby. It's all about your own expectations, though. (hence the Moby Dick reference)

That said, the 42XG is a capable antenna, but moving it outside would be a cheaper first step. You could look also at the 91XG or DB4e with the VHF add-on as well as the PA-19/18 preamps. Most of the gain data is readily available on the web, so you can compare your 42XG to others from AD as well as the other majors like Winegard and AntennaCraft.

OK, so what you're saying is that a preamp at the antenna is not really going to help me. I don't think I want to mount it above the roof -- local regulations and all that. Plus it would be a pita. :D

So if I'm comparing antennas with the 42XG, what number am I looking at to get improved reception?

Now, on the other hand, if I could get a flat-mount antenna that is inconspicuous and I can mount, say, under the eaves against the outside wall, then that might do it. Do you think the ClearStream2 (or similar) would work that way?

Thanks!
Bryan

[thom]

It might make you unpopular with the neighbors, but Federal law prohibits restrictions on outdoor antennas:
http://www.fcc.gov/guides/over-air-reception-devices-rule

db gain is the magic number to look at. More is better, absent other considerations like size, weight, cost, and angry neighbors. There's an added wrinkle of dbi vs dbd. Google can help you there, though:
http://www.digi.com/support/kbase/kbaseresultdetl?id=2146

The bigger problem is that it's often referred to as just 'db', and you have to hunt around to figure out which one a particular manufacturer is using.

A preamp can certainly help if you've got a long cable run from the antenna or splitters to multiple sets. As many here have said before, however, it can't create a signal where there isn't one. It can only work with what it gets from the antenna, so that's why db gain is so important. Ideally, you want a preamp with a low noise figure, 2-3 db.

A good first step is to look at your TV Fool report and decide which stations you really need and which ones are 'nice to haves'. That's going to drive your antenna choice, preamp, and mounting choices.

[GroundUrMast]

Day to day, do you get reliable reception of WHEC & WHAM? If not, the addition of a High-VHF antenna would improve the situation.

If I were starting form scratch, seeking reliable local reception, I would use two antennas. First, an Antennas Direct DB4e facing east (105° compass). The DB4e has two lobes off the back that are sensitive enough to do a good job receiving the signals from the NW & SW. Second, I would point an Antennacraft Y5713 at 329° compass, aiming for real CH-10 & 13. To combine the antennas into a single down-lead, I'd use a UVSJ close to the UHF antenna, followed by an Antennas Direct CPA-19 preamp.

If your goal is DX hobby reception, use a large combination antenna or combination of large cut-for-band antennas... 91XG, HD9095P, Y10713, YA1713, etc. Also, particularly for DX, mount outside.

[teleview]

Tv antennas and other antennas are

Receiving

Proud

Beautiful

Handsome

Dependable

Responsible

Reliable

Providing

Giving

Understanding
________________

Your hiding and shame and pita comments are not good.
________________

Antennas are my friends

You have insulted my friends

[teleview]

Above the roof install a , Antennas Direct Clear Stream 2 Complete VHF/UHF Antenna with a Antennas Direct CPA-19 preamp , aimed at about 115 degree magnetic compass direction.

http://www.antennasdirect.com/store/ClearStream-C2-VHF-Combo.html.

For 1 tv connected use no splitter.

For 2 Tv's connected use a HFS-2D , 2 way splitter.

For 3 Tv's connected use a HFS-3D , 3 way splitter.

Buy the HFS splitters at , http://www.hollandelectronics.com or http://www.solidsignal.com.

Here is how to aim antennas , http://www.kyes.com/antenna/pointing/pointing.html.

Remove the Reflector Screen from the Clear Stream 2 Complete VHF/UHF Antenna.

With the reflector screen removed the CS2 Complete will receive Tv stations/channels to the , north west , west , east.

Here are some Above the roof antenna mounts , http://www.ronard.com/909911.html , http://www.ronard.com/34424560.html , http://www.ronard.com/ychim.html , http://www.ronard.com.

Buy the ronard antenna mounts at solidsignal by typing the word ronard in the solidsignal search box.

Here are places to buy antennas and etc. , http://www.solidsignal.com , http://www.amazon.com.

_______

As always , trees and tree leaves do a real fine job of , reflecting , reducing , blocking Tv reception and so do buildings and other obstructions.

Install/mount the antenna in such a manner that there is the least amount or no amount of obstructions in the way of reception.

[teleview]

TV Dxing is a popular hobby. Type tv dxing in the google search box.

[cassb]

Day to day, do you get reliable reception of WHEC & WHAM? If not, the addition of a High-VHF antenna would improve the situation.

If I were starting form scratch, seeking reliable local reception, I would use two antennas. First, an Antennas Direct DB4e facing east (105° compass). The DB4e has two lobes off the back that are sensitive enough to do a good job receiving the signals from the NW & SW. Second, I would point an Antennacraft Y5713 at 329° compass, aiming for real CH-10 & 13. To combine the antennas into a single down-lead, I'd use a UVSJ close to the UHF antenna, followed by an Antennas Direct CPA-19 preamp.

If your goal is DX hobby reception, use a large combination antenna or combination of large cut-for-band antennas... 91XG, HD9095P, Y10713, YA1713, etc. Also, particularly for DX, mount outside.

Thanks, guys!

I do get good reception of the closest stations to my NW, no matter which way I point the antenna. So what I was trying to do was just to see if I could get the stations to the East that are farther away by pointing it there. I was tantalized by all these new stations I was drawing in last night up in the attic and thought it was a piece of cake. But alas, the atmospheric conditions do vex me. Maybe I should just settle for what is easy, rather than what is expensive. ;-)

Bryan

[cassb]

TV Dxing is a popular hobby. Type tv dxing in the google search box.

haha! Look at this description for "TV DX" in Wikipedia:

"The development of interest in TV-FM DX as a hobby can arise after more distant signals are either intentionally or accidentally discovered, leading to a serious interest in improving the listener's antenna and receiving installation for the purpose of actively seeking long-range television and radio reception."

OMG, I hope I have not been bitten by this bug! :) I have enough obsessions already, thank you.

One thing though.... With the antenna pointed ENE to get the Syracuse stations, I can no longer get the WUHF station that is closest to me, although I get strong signal from WHEC and WHAM which have towers on the same hilltop, I believe. Weird... maybe WUHF is not as strong a signal?