Random drops in oceanside ca

[760side]

I have a Antennas Direct DB 8 antenna that is mounted approx 30 off the ground. I have a 100 ft of new rg6 connected to 1 tv and there is one coax connector to connect the final 6 feet between the tv and the wall.

Im looking to receive the San Diego networks; abc,nbc,cbs,pbs and fox. I get pretty decent reception and there is a somewhat clear view to the south east where the towers are located. However my signal will drop on some channels at random times. Ive read up on pre-amps and Im not sure it would help me with the random drops. Below is my report and any help is appreciated.

http://www.tvfool.com/?option=com_wrapper&Itemid=29&q=id%3d9900c1e7c4f320

[thom]

Are you getting random drops on all channels or just 8 and 10? Since you're using the DB8, which is UHF only, your VHF reception will be spotty and not nearly as reliable as the UHF stations. Also, you might not realize you've got some LA stations in the mix, and those may come and go, given the distance.

[760side]

i get drops on 39(nbc) and 15 (pbs) as well.actually i think i get pretty good coverage on 8 and 10 for the most part. Also would grounding my connection help with reception? I havent seen anything that says it would or would not.

[teleview]

Install a Antennas Direct CPA-19 preamp.

Aim the DB8 at about 135 degree magnetic compass direction.

Here is how to aim antennas , http://www.kyes.com/antenna/pointing/pointing.html.

http://www.solidsignal.com , http://www.amazon.com.

[GroundUrMast]

The primary purpose of grounding is safety, for people and then property. Static buildup in normal operation might result in damage to the tuner. Grounding prevents static charges from accumulating. Grounding may also keep low frequency RF voltages from appearing on the outside of the coax shield. The benefit to reception is rarely going to be of significance.

My stock answer is, Grounding the mast and coax shield are prudent and relatively inexpensive steps that limit the buildup of static-electricity which can damage the tuner. When done correctly, grounding can also reduce the risk caused by a nearby lighting strike.

http://forum.tvfool.com/showthread.php?t=901

Grounding in a basic system is a two step process:

1) Connect a #10 gauge copper wire to the antenna mast. A bronze ground clamp such as the Halex #36020 is well suited for this application. Run the wire directly to the electrical service ground. Avoid sharp bends in the wire. (If the ground wire between the service panel and ground rod is accessible, an Intersystem Bonding Termination devise (http://www.homedepot.com/Electrical-Breakers-Distribution-Load-Centers-Accessories-Other/ERITECH/h_d1/R-202194170/h_d2/ProductDisplay?catalogId=10053&langId=-1&productId=202194170&storeId=10051#.UB9y8qCOyzo) can be placed onto the ground wire without cutting or disconnecting it. This provides a means to connect the #10 mast ground wire to the existing ground wire close to the ground rod outside the building. If possible, avoid running the new ground wire inside the building, energy from static or electrical storms is best directed to ground before it has any path into the building. The mast ground wire can be bare or insulated, your choice.)

2) Run the coax from the antenna to a location close to the electrical service ground. Install a ground block (http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B001I5610E/ref=pd_lpo_k2_dp_sr_1?pf_rd_p=486539851&pf_rd_s=lpo-top-stripe-1&pf_rd_t=201&pf_rd_i=B000BPEZKK&pf_rd_m=ATVPDKIKX0DER&pf_rd_r=1C90NDN0N2CS08266D7Q) and with another peice of #10 wire, connect it to the electrical service ground at the same point you connected the mast ground.

I don't recommend short-cuts such as driving a new ground rod that is not connected to the existing electrical service ground. An isolated ground rod often has a high resistance that provides very limited ground connection. The goal is to connect to the same ground system that protects the rest of the home.

Surge protectors located inside outlet strips at the TV, computer or similar devises are worth consideration. A surge protector with a high joule rating is able to absorb more fault energy than a unit with a lower joule rating. Some surge protection units include phone jacks and F-connectors to enable protection of a phone line, coax cable and the power cable(s). However, in the case of an outdoor mounted antenna, this type of protection should not be considered a 'first-line of defense'.

[thom]

You raise an interesting point. Perhaps this is an SDGE thing or a California thing, but for the life of me, I cannot find our service ground. Everything that comes into the exterior power panel is enclosed in conduit that doesn't look like it's meant to be opened up.

I had to resort to the independent grounding rod. Why is its resistance so much higher? Any way to mitigate that?

[thom]

Are there any near-field obstructions? Trees, neighbor's roofline? Planes on approach to the Carlsbad airport might be getting you some unhelpful reflections, too. On your signal strength meter, do you drop to zero or just into the yellow/red? How long do the drops last?

[GroundUrMast]

You raise an interesting point. Perhaps this is an SDGE thing or a California thing, but for the life of me, I cannot find our service ground. Everything that comes into the exterior power panel is enclosed in conduit that doesn't look like it's meant to be opened up.

I had to resort to the independent grounding rod. Why is its resistance so much higher? Any way to mitigate that?

Soil is not nearly as good a conductor as copper or other metals. Dry sandy soil is a very poor conductor. FWIW, in new construction, it's becoming quite common to see the foundation re-bar used as the 'ground rod'.

If the conduit coming out of the ground to the electrical-meter base is steel or aluminum, you can place a grounding clamp (http://www.homedepot.com/h_d1/N-5yc1v/R-100149923/h_d2/ProductDisplay?catalogId=10053&langId=-1&keyword=ground+clamp&storeId=10051#.UB7QfaCOyzo) on the outside of the conduit... be sure to scrape paint off were the clamp is to make electrical contact to the outside of the conduit. If the conduit is aluminum, use a clamp rated for use with aluminum (to avoid corrosion problems) and use an anti corrosion compound on all aluminum connections (http://www.amazon.com/Noalox%C2%AE-Anti-oxidant-Compound-Oz-Bottle/dp/B0019KHHRE).

Don't remove your new ground rod... but connect a #6 AWG copper 'bonding' wire to the rod and to the service conduit. Now, your electrical service has a bit more ground... and your antenna ground is in common with the rest of the electrical service ground system.

If in doubt, buy your electrician friend a beer or two...

[760side]

Thanks for the info. I dont have a signal strength meter and was considering purchasing one before I pick up a pre-amp. Ive been relying on phoning down to the wife to check the reception. Any suggestions on a decently priced signal meter? Also I think im pointed more towards 150 degrees rather than 135 so that may help out.

I live in north oceanside in the valley off the 76. So i am dealing with a couple decent sized hills between me and the towers.

[thom]

Any suggestions on a decently priced signal meter? Also I think im pointed more towards 150 degrees rather than 135 so that may help out.

I just use the meter on my Tivo. Your TV might have one buried in it's menu structure.

You might also consider aiming at 316. You'll be surprised at the number of LA stations you can get.

[GroundUrMast]

The SiliconDust HDHR3 is a stand alone tuner, intended to make any PC, MAC or Linux computer an HD TV. It has great signal meter functions.

http://www.amazon.com/SiliconDust-HDHomeRun-Definition-Television-HDHR3-US/dp/B004HO58SO/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1344196919&sr=8-1&keywords=hdhr3-us

The HDHR TECH3-US version includes more sophisticated signal monitoring capability.

http://www.silicondust.com/products/models/tech3-us-tech3-eu/

http://forum.tvfool.com/showthread.php?t=820

[760side]

GUM, thanks for reminding me about the HDHR signal tool. I purchased one a few months ago to integrate into my htpc but I ran into some reliability issues between xbmc and the hdhr. Ill have to hook it back up and use that for my signal meter.

[GroundUrMast]

GUM, thanks for reminding me about the HDHR signal tool. I purchased one a few months ago to integrate into my htpc but I ran into some reliability issues between xbmc and the hdhr. Ill have to hook it back up and use that for my signal meter.

Your viewing experience will be much better if you use a wired connection. Wireless networking is prone to packet loss that will make watching and especially recording less enjoyable.

For monitoring the signal parameters, a wireless link will be fine.

[thom]

Soil is not nearly as good a conductor as copper or other metals. Dry sandy soil is a very poor conductor. FWIW, in new construction, it's becoming quite common to see the foundation re-bar used as the 'ground rod'.

Excellent advice, thank you.

Yeah, that's my soil, and to make things worse, we only get thunderstorms in the summer when the ground has had 4 months to dry out.

On closer inspection, my situation is worse than I thought. The electrical service actually comes in through the foundation in the garage. The feed in is thoroughly encased in PVC. I did notice that both the legacy and the cable phone service run a wire to a screw on the outside bottom of the service panel. I don't see a good way to tap in, unless I run a wire to another screw on the bottom of the panel (assumptive ground).

[760side]

Sorry to revive a dead thread but I do have some updates.

I pointed the db8 to magnetic 135 and my reception is better on the San Diego channels. I get an occasional drop on the nbc 39 station and cbs (8) and abc (10) are hit or miss. Since these (8,10) are vhf channels would it behoove me to do the following:

Leave the db8 pointed to magnetic 135
pick up an Antenna Craft CS600 for channels 8 and 10
join the db8 and cs600 with a uvsj
pick up and connect a cpa-19 to the uvsj output

Or could someone suggest a good vhf/uhf antenna i could replace the db8 with that would be the same cost roughly as picking up all those extra parts since i only have the db8 right now?

[GroundUrMast]

I would opt for the Y10713 High-VHF rather than the CS600. Even if you aimed directly at KRVD on real CH-5 the CS600 lacks the gain needed to overcome the extra noise in the Low-VHF band. The increased gain of the Y10713 would not be overkill given the modest signal levels of CH-8 & 10, particularly with the edge path caused by fairly close terrain.

A single combo antenna may work well, but the flexibility of aiming the two antennas independently may proven helpful.

The CPA-19 is a very good choice.

[teleview]

Antenna system number 1.

Install a Channel Master CM4228HD UHF antenna aimed at about 150 degree magnetic compass direction.
The CM4228HD has higher gain on channels 14 thru about 30 , XETV-DT UHF channel 23 The CW is very weak , so the CM4228HD is for to reach out for that channel. And also receive the other UHF channels.

Install a Winegard YA1713 VHF high band antenna aimed at about 145 degree degree magnetic compass direction.

Connect the 2 together with a UVSJ and and connect the CPA-19 preamp.

_____________________________________

Antenna system number 2.

Aim the DB8 with a CPA-19 preamp at about 16 degree magnetic compass direction for reception of , KVMD UHF channel 23 and KHIZ/KLIM UHF channel 44. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/KVMD , and , http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/KILM.

_____________________________________

Antenna systems numbers 1 and 2 are not connected together on to one coax.

Antenna systems numbers 1 and 2 are Separate antenna systems all the way to the locations of the Tv/s , at the locations of the Tv/s the Separate antenna systems will be connected to a Remote A/B coax antenna switch , http://www.mcmelectronics.com , #32-4425 , or , http://www.radioshack.com , #15-1968.

[760side]

so I purchased a Y10713 High-VHF and the cpa-19. my plan is

point the Y10713 at 159 magnetic.
then use a uvsj to join the Y10713 and db8
the output of the of the uvsj goes into the cpa-19 very close to the antennas
the power supply for the tv will be next to my tv since my antennas are outdoors.

Anything Im missing or other tips anyone might have is much appreciated.

[GroundUrMast]

It sounds like you're on track.

[760side]

so , in theory, the Y10713 along with the preamp will help me pic up San Diegos 8 and 10 with more consistency than what I currently have?

8 has been a true pain for me as that is the cbs affiliate and Ill be watching football and then anywhere between 11 and 1230 the drops start happening.

[GroundUrMast]

If you're already seeing 8 & 10 with the DB8, I expect an antenna designed for the task will perform very well. The Y10713 is designed to receive real channels 7 through 13, the DB8 is not. Of all the consumer grade antennas available, the Y10713 and Winegard's competing YA1713 are the best performers for going after 8 & 10.

[760side]

so a little disappointment today

i aimed the Y10713 at 159 magnetic
db 8 is still pointed at approx 135
joined the db8 and with a uvsj (CHANNEL PLUS 2512 DC + IR Passing 2-Way Splitter/Combiner)
the out of the usvj is connected to the in on the cpa-19
the to tv of the cpa 19 is rg6 all the way down to a wall plate splitter so it looks like this

UHF Antenna
|
UVSJ -->cpa-19-------wall plate--Power Supply Inside--> TV
|
VHF Antenna

All that said i did a scan and I only get 1-2 channels....where as with the db8 only i was getting 8-12 channels. So my troubleshooting will be to remove the amp and do another scan. Any other thoughts or suggestions?

[GroundUrMast]

The CHANNEL PLUS 2512 DC + IR Passing 2-Way Splitter/Combiner is not a UVSJ. The splitter is allowing the two antennas to 'fight' each other.

A UVSJ is a tuned filter network, not a mere splitter in reverse. It will have a port that passes only UHF frequencies, another port that passes only VHF frequencies and a 'common' / 'combined' port.

Try a real UVSJ:

http://www.solidsignal.com/pview.asp?p=UVSJ&d=Pico-Macom-UVSJ-UHF-VHF-Band-Separator/Combiner-for-Antenna-%28UVSJ%29
http://www.radioshack.com/product/index.jsp?productId=2103923
http://www.amazon.com/Antennas-Direct-EU385CF-Combiner-Connection/dp/B008PBTPN4/ref=sr_1_4?ie=UTF8&qid=1352108922&sr=8-4&keywords=Antennas+Direct+UHF+VHF

[760side]

dang it!!!! i had a feeling it was that uvsj. Thats what I get for going off the reviews on amazon. Well at least its a pretty easy fix and it gives me another reason to hop up on my roof.

[760side]

So the right equipment always helps. I picked up the radio shack uvsj. I used my same set up with the individual uhf and vhf antennas with the amp after the uvsj. I did my initial scan and get all the channels Im looking for and they are all full signal strength. Hopefully I wont run into any more drop outs now.

Thanks all for the help..