I need booster help

[CountryBoy19]

Bear with me as I have very little experience with these types of things.

This is my analysis: http://www.tvfool.com/?option=com_wrapper&Itemid=29&q=id%3d9900e2a227ec27

I'm pretty sure I have this antenna attic mounted: http://www.amazon.com/Winegard-HD7694P-High-Definition-Antenna/dp/B001DFTGR4/ref=sr_1_4?s=electronics&ie=UTF8&qid=1343671502&sr=1-4&keywords=winegard+antenna

My current co-ax layout was done by retards so that is part of my problem, but re-wiring it isn't really an option.

The wire comes from the attic mounted antenna into a 3 way splitter. 2 outs go to TV's in 1 part of the house (within 20 feet) the 3rd goes down to the basement distribution point. Currently if I remove the 3 way splitter and only feed the 2 nearby TV's I get good signal, but if I split to the basement the level degrades enough that signal is spotty on those 2 nearby TV's and I only get channels 14 & 48 on the rest of the house. The main distribution point consists of the input (from the 3-way split in the attic) that goes into a 4 way splitter, 1 output from the 4 way then goes into an 8-way splitter.

It might be possible to remove the 8 way splitter and just feed the lines that need it but nothing is marked so it will take a lot of trial & error to find out which line is which. I'd rather leave it all together if I can but I understand that a "lopsided splitter configuration" like I have is very problematic and may need to be corrected. But as it stands I currently have 11 of my houses lines that are being fed from a single leg off the initial 3-way splitter.

I'm pretty sure I need a booster but I'm concerned that the signal from 14 & 48 will be too strong and cause problems with the amplifier. Is this a valid concern? How much amplifier do I need? I would really like to be able to pull in channels like 13, 44 etc. It's not a problem to get these when my antenna is only feeding the 2 short co-ax runs but I want to get them to the rest of the house too. I was thinking a Winegard AP8275 28 dB gain preamp, but I've heard that preamp is especially susceptible to being overloaded by strong signals.

Any advice? I'm pretty sure I'll need a high-gain antenna to get all the channels I want all over the house but how do I do it with those 2-4 strong signals in the mix?

Thanks!!!

Any help?

[teleview]

Important question --> How many Tv's are/will be connected ????

The tvfool radar plot report is ony to the city level.

Make a tvfool radar report plot with the EXACT Address.

And the antenna height 35 feet.

[CountryBoy19]

Important question --> How many Tv's are/will be connected ????

The tvfool radar plot report is ony to the city level.

Make a tvfool radar report plot with the EXACT Address.

And the antenna height 35 feet.

4 TV's connect but only 2 are commonly used.

If I enter my exact address it won't recognize it and it centers over the town that is 9 miles away. The town I've entered centers 1/4 mile from my house. The 35' antenna height is to make an elevation correction as the town I've entered (Judah) is in a small depression but my house is on top of the hill just outside of town. I've found that the data from that TVfool radar plot is pretty close. My problem is mainly with the signal once I get it inside the house. With the co-ax hooked directly from the antenna to a single TV I get great reception with all the channels I want and even some I didn't think I'd be able to pull in. I just need to boost the signal after the antenna but I'm worried about some of it being too strong and others still too weak...

[teleview]

Go to the tvfool home page and click on >>Start MAPS<< move the pointer to your location and make a tvfool radar map plot.

Make the antenna height 25 feet.

[CountryBoy19]

Go to the tvfool home page and click on >>Start MAPS<< move the pointer to your location and make a tvfool radar map plot.

Make the antenna height 25 feet.

http://www.tvfool.com/?option=com_wrapper&Itemid=29&q=id%3d9900cbddcb3ac0

That one doesn't show all the channels I was able to successfully pull. For example, I was able to succesfully pull in channel 11 when I had connected my winegard antenna directly to the 1 tv, but the radar map plot of my exact location doesn't show it.

[GroundUrMast]

If you're happy with the channels you see now, then so am I.

Is the attic ventilated fairly well, ie. does the attic temperature stay below 120° F on sunny summer days? If so, the Channel Master CM-3410 is a robust distribution amplifier that can take a lot more input signal level than what's showing on your TV Fool report.

The amplifier has a decent noise figure... about 3 dB. And, according to the published ad copy, can 'tolerate 140° F'. It also has a somewhat unique feature, the power supply does not ship with a cord... you make one from RG-6 coax cable... so it can be any reasonable length. You would mount the amplifier in the attic, between the antenna and the first splitter. You would mount (plug-in) the power supply at the most convenient outlet... then run RG-6 coax from the power supply to the amplifier. (If the attic gets too hot, then mount the amplifier in a nearby closet. Try to keep the coax run from the antenna to the amplifier in the closet short without putting strain on the coax or connectors, keep the bends gentle, don't kink the cable. Then, if you have to, run cable from the amplifier back into the attic to feed the 3-way splitter.)

You get 15 dB gain. Hopefully, the 3-way splitter is labeled with loss values per port. Many 3-way splitters will have one output port that has half the loss of the other two. Use the lowest loss port to feed the cable going down to the basement.

I would recommend you remove the unneeded 8-way splitter in the basement. The work of identifying and tagging the working drops is well worth the benefit of eliminating 10 to 12 dB of loss from your system. Terminate any unused splitter ports... better yet, if you only need a 2-way splitter in the basement, then buy one and ditch another 4 dB of loss. (Or if you need a 3-way split, use that instead of a 4-way)

The attached drawing may be of some help... if nothing else, at least to be sure we're both thinking similarly.

[teleview]

Both tvfool radar map reports are showing the same Tv stations/channels , WHAS-TV 11 ABC and the rest.

If the HD7694P antenna were mounted above the roof aimed at about 142 degree magnetic compass , the direction of WHAS-Tv 11 , and reception will be improved for the other Tv stations/channels also.

More Tv stations/channels will be received with the antenna above the roof.

Here is how to aim antennas , http://www.kyes.com/antenna/pointing/pointing.html.

As always Tv antennas receive the best when there are little or no obstructions in the way of reception such as , trees and tree leaves , and buildings , in this reception situation the directions of south east and north east.

Here are some above the roof antenna mounts , http://www.ronard.com/909911.html , http://www.ronard.com/34424560.html , http://www.ronard.com/ychim.html , http://www.ronard.com.

Buy the ronard antenna mounts at solidsignal by typing the word ronard in the solidsignal search box.

Here are places to buy antenna supplies , http://www.solidsignal.com , http://www.amazon.com , http://www.channelmasterstore.com.

A recommendation for signal distribution.

Install a Channel Master CM3414 , 4 way distribution amplifier.

The antenna is connected to the CM3414.

And connect the coax wiring so that a coax goes out to each Tv location from the 4 outputs of the CM3414 distribution amplifier.

[signals unlimited]

Here is how to identify the unmarked lines.

Use a jumper wire to short out the coax at the end in the rooms. Go to the other end where the eight way splitter is located. disconnect all lines from the splitter. Use a volt/ohm meter ( buy a cheap one or borrow one if possible) to check for a short circuit on the coax at the splitter.

Mark the coax that registers the short circuit to identify the location.

[No static at all]

I strongly agree with the Channel Master 3414 recommendation for distribution. I've used a few of them & they have yielded excellent results each time.

[CountryBoy19]

Is the attic ventilated fairly well, ie. does the attic temperature stay below 120° F on sunny summer days? If so, the Channel Master CM-3410 is a robust distribution amplifier that can take a lot more input signal level than what's showing on your TV Fool report.
It does get pretty hot up there, although I've never actually measure the temperature up there I know it's not ventilated as well as it probably should be. I can put the amp in a closet but it will make the run about 30 feet longer.

You get 15 dB gain. Hopefully, the 3-way splitter is labeled with loss values per port. Many 3-way splitters will have one output port that has half the loss of the other two. Use the lowest loss port to feed the cable going down to the basement.
My 3-way splitter isn't labeled.

I would recommend you remove the unneeded 8-way splitter in the basement. The work of identifying and tagging the working drops is well worth the benefit of eliminating 10 to 12 dB of loss from your system. Terminate any unused splitter ports... better yet, if you only need a 2-way splitter in the basement, then buy one and ditch another 4 dB of loss. (Or if you need a 3-way split, use that instead of a 4-way)

The attached drawing may be of some help... if nothing else, at least to be sure we're both thinking similarly.

I was hoping I wouldn't have to do that, but I'm not against it. I think it is probably the best way to do it.


A recommendation for signal distribution.

Install a Channel Master CM3414 , 4 way distribution amplifier.

The antenna is connected to the CM3414.

And connect the coax wiring so that a coax goes out to each Tv location from the 4 outputs of the CM3414 distribution amplifier.

This will put an end to the big mess of coax wiring.

Mounting the antenna on the roof is not very ideal, I'd rather keep it in the attic. I don't really have a problem getting the signal, I just don't have the power to run it through the current distribution setup.

Running wires from a distribution amp to the 4 TV locations is not going to happen. All wiring is behind drywall and there is no way to route new wires to the downstairs TVs. And that would remove the versatility of the current Setup where all the coax comes from a central distribution area and there is a drop in every room of the house. I would much rather go with the above suggestion of just removing the unused runs from the splitter to get the 8-way completely out of the system.

[No static at all]

I can put the amp in a closet but it will make the run about 30 feet longer.An extra 30 feet shouldn't matter if using RG-6 coax.

I am using 110 feet of RG-6 before my 3414 amp & it works great even with the weakest / hard to get channels. No other amplification is used anywhere in the system.

[ADTech]

Extra cable might or might not affect reception. If you have "just enough" signal for it to operate, adding another 2 dB insertion (30' RG6) might the signal power to drop below the needed threshold.

OTOH, it you have plenty of signal power margin, the extra 2 dB loss from 30' of RG6 won't matter.

[GroundUrMast]

If you mount the amplifier in a closet, the important cable length is 'from the antenna to the amplifier input'. Hopefully, you could find a location that needed a bit less than 30' of coax for that link. The cable from the amplifier output is not as significant, until cable and splitter loss are close to cancelling the gain of the amplifier.

As the others have suggested, the ideal installation would have the antenna free of all obstructions and the distribution cabling home run from a single distribution point... You may need to do some or all of that, but a compromised design that works... works.

[CountryBoy19]

If you mount the amplifier in a closet, the important cable length is 'from the antenna to the amplifier input'. Hopefully, you could find a location that needed a bit less than 30' of coax for that link. The cable from the amplifier output is not as significant, until cable and splitter loss are close to cancelling the gain of the amplifier.

As the others have suggested, the ideal installation would have the antenna free of all obstructions and the distribution cabling home run from a single distribution point... You may need to do some or all of that, but a compromised design that works... works.

I can re-locate the antenna in the attic. Where it is currently positioned the signal enters through the end-wall of the attic (1/2" osb, moisture barrier, plus vinyl siding). That should result in very little signal loss. To relocate closer to the closet I can put the amp in would require the signal enters through the asphalt roof. I'm not an rf expert but I do know that organic compounds make great rf blockers; I'm sure moving the antenna to where the signal has to penetrate through the asphalt shingles will diminish my signal quality more than it will gain by being closer to the amp.

[GroundUrMast]

You have a good understanding of the situation. Sounds like it's time to give the CM-3410 a try.

[CountryBoy19]

Well, I went with the channel master 3414 because I decided I could run new cable to a 1 additional TV location so that leave me with only running 1 line down to the existing hub and direct connecting it to the 1 TV hookup. All sounded good on paper. I swear I read that the 3414 was 18 dB gain. Nope, only 8 dB gain which isn't enough. I can get most channels on the runs that are direct from the amp, but can't get channel 13 which my wife really wants for the Olympics... :(

Is there a better gain distribution amp I can get?

I really don't want to put the antenna on the roof...

[GroundUrMast]

The 3414 is a 15 dB amplifier followed by the built-in passive splitter that has 7 dB loss, giving you 15-7=8 dB net gain.

You need to try the antenna on the roof clear of obstructions.

[ADTech]

FWIW, the 3410, 3412, 3414, and 3418 all use the same 15 dB amplifier module internally. The difference in gain, output relative to input, (15, 11.5, 8, 4.5) is the integrated splitter.

If you have sufficient signal power to start with, you can still further split the outputs of any of these distribution amps - right up to the point where you finally run out of power. The main concern with doing this is the slightly greater possibility of mechanical failure of the connectors plus a small extra insertion loss penalty.