Antenna Higher = Less Channels???

[Fealthas]

Bit of background: I started this project to dump satellite.

I live in the Baton Rouge, LA area with a lot of mature trees around. Our OTA stations broadcast from different directions. I bought an HD-360 as all stations are within 45mi from me. I placed the antenna up about 16' in the air and received all of our locals except one station. (The antenna is very light. so I was able to use the 4' mast sections from Lowes.) It sat about 2-3' over the peak of my roof. I figured I needed to raise the antenna some so I could get the missing station but wanted it secure. I bought and installed a set of Ronard HD Y chimney mounts. The antenna is about 6' higher than it was before(4' above the chimney cap), but about 30' away from where it was located.

Not only do I still not receive that one station, but I am now missing a 2nd station that I received VERY clearly before the move to the chimney. I am desperately trying to get rid of satellite since all we watch are locals, but am at my wits end and tired of spending money to make the move to OTA.

Any advice, suggestions, help, magic wands???

http://www.tvfool.com/?option=com_wrapper&Itemid=29&q=id%3d81a3c2d0e443b0

[John Candle]

What are the missing channels? . Omni directional antennas are not 100% omni directional , turn the antenna for better reception. Omni directional antennas do not reject multipath / reflected signals. . It is interesting that people find less then desirable china antenna sellers when these honest manufacters have been selling antennas for a very , very , very long time. http://www.winegarddirect.com , http://www.channelmasterstore.com , http://www.antennacraft.net , And now http://antennasdirect.com with these selected antennas , Clearstream 2 and 4. DB 2 , 4 , 8 . 43XG and 91 XG . and clearstream 5. . http://solidsignal.com , http://www.starkelectronic.com

[Fealthas]

What are the missing channels? . Omni directional antennas are not 100% directional , turn the antenna a little for better reception. Omni directional antennas do not reject multipath / reflected signals. . It is interesting that people find these less then desirable antenna sellers when these manufacters have been selling antennas for a very , very , very long time. http://www.winegarddirect.com , http://www.channelmasterstore.com , http://www.antennacraft.net

I was always missing WAFB and am now missing WAFB and WBRZ. I will try rotating the antenna some. Any recommended degrees to rotate it?

I had heard good things about the HD-360 that I got from https://www.nationalantennas.com/store/

[Tigerbangs]

What is an HD-360? I would assume from it's name that it is an omnidirectional antenna, If it is, you might as well throw it in the trash, as it is not going to give you what you need. Please post your TVFool.com report, and we can help you with your reception.

[Fealthas]

What is an HD-360? I would assume from it's name that it is an omnidirectional antenna, If it is, you might as well throw it in the trash, as it is not going to give you what you need. Please post your TVFool.com report, and we can help you with your reception.

Thought I already posted my TVFool.com report in the OP. Here it is again.

http://www.tvfool.com/?option=com_wrapper&Itemid=29&q=id%3d81a3c2d0e443b0

[Dave Loudin]

You really have one prime direction for network programming - WSW. A modest high-VHF/UHF antenna will suffice, like a Winegard HD 7694p. The low-power stations in other directions are very strong at your location and will probably come in even if you don't aim at them. The other thing to keep in mind is NO PREAMP! ;)

[John Candle]

Multipath is reflected television transmissions. Reflected off of buildings , mountains , hills , trees , airplanes , even trains if you live close to train tracks. Multipath causes ghosts in Analog tv pictures , you have analog tv transmitters at your location , A digital tv tuner can correct multipath up to point and then too much multipath will cause a digital tuner to not process the signal and you see the picture break up in to block or black out. Omnidirectional antennas do not reject multipath and omnidirectional antennas are not 100% omni. Turn the antenna to try and get the most channels. . DO NOT use a preamp at your location , the television transmissions are Very Strong and a preamp can overload and block out channels. Also because it is a omniantenna it is a good idea to move the antenna up and down or this way or that way to find a spot with the least amount of multipath. With some expermenting you might get all the channels you like. Read and understand this , http://forum.tvfool.com/showthread.php?t=695 , http://forum.tvfool.com/showthread.php?t=651 , http://forum.tvfool.com/showthread.php?t=231

[John Candle]

The SCAMMMM on Tv antennas is Full ON here in the USA and most of the rest of the world. Check out http://www.alibaba.com , and get an education in international marketing.

[John Candle]

Ground the coax with a coax ground block and ground wire.

[Fealthas]

Un-plugged the pre-amp that came with the antenna on the above advice and rotated the antenna. I am now getting all the stations I was looking for with those changes.

This should work for us until I decide to spend some additional money on getting a better antenna per the advice here and from another Hi Def Forum.com

Thanks again!!!

[rickcain]

alibaba.com is a fine example of how American industry has been completely wiped out by the Chinese. The chinese make everything now, even roof antennas, and bad quality ones at that.

[John Candle]

To avoid the scam. These antennas at american manufactures and companys. http://www.winegarddirect.com , http://www.channelmasterstore.com , http://www.antennasdirect.com , http://antennacraft.net

[Fealthas]

I am looking at replacing the Omni POS I bought with a much better antenna from Winegard. I have sent them some information to see what their recommendations are to be able to receive the stations in my area as well as the station from New Orleans which are about 40-60 miles away.

You were very helpful when I first got this set up. Do you have any recommendations as well?

[GroundUrMast]

You really have one prime direction for network programming - WSW. A modest high-VHF/UHF antenna will suffice, like a Winegard HD 7694p. The low-power stations in other directions are very strong at your location and will probably come in even if you don't aim at them. The other thing to keep in mind is NO PREAMP! ;)

Unless you intend build a system capable of 'every possible' signal, DL has offered an excellent recommendation.

[Fealthas]

Unless you intend build a system capable of 'every possible' signal, DL has offered an excellent recommendation.

Will that allow me to also pick up the stations from New Orleans which is ESE of us as well?

[Tower Guy]

I am looking at replacing the Omni POS I bought with a much better antenna from Winegard. I have sent them some information to see what their recommendations are to be able to receive the stations in my area as well as the station from New Orleans which are about 40-60 miles away.

You were very helpful when I first got this set up. Do you have any recommendations as well?

Watch out for FM interference. You cannot use any amplification unless you have an extremely effective FM filter such as an HLSJ with nothing connected to the L Port.

WJFM at 88.5 @ -8.3 dbm and WDGL at 98.1 @ -19.5 dbm create a 3rd order intermodulation product at 186.6. WAFB's channel 9 runs from 186-192 MHz.

You want a 7-69 antenna such as the HD 7694P that was already mentioned. It will probably have fewer FM issues than with a 2-69 antenna.

[GroundUrMast]

Will that allow me to also pick up the stations from New Orleans which is ESE of us as well?

Reception of the stations ESE of you, (beginning with WYES and those lower on the TVF report you have posted) will be very difficult. You are dealing with nearly impossible signal levels and co-channel or adjacent channel interference.

Are you willing to build a tower and invest in a substantial amount of custom equipment including filters and amplifiers -- With no promise of success?

I can imagine a dedicated hobbyist DX'er throwing themselves at a challenge such as this... Someone who has the real estate to erect high towers and poles to suspend big stacked Rhombic (http://forum.tvfool.com/showthread.php?t=291) antennas.

[Fealthas]

Are you willing to build a tower and invest in a substantial amount of custom equipment including filters and amplifiers -- With no promise of success?

I can imagine a dedicated hobbyist DX'er throwing themselves at a challenge such as this... Someone who has the real estate to erect high towers and poles to suspend big stacked Rhombic (http://forum.tvfool.com/showthread.php?t=291) antennas.

Definitely not at this time, no I am not. This is the kind of feedback that makes me come here to ask these sorts of questions. You all really know your stuff and help us neophytes think through things to gauge the distance tween desire and ability! :)

So what I am getting is that I can get a great antenna upgrade that will rock for my immediate area If I want to pick up the New Orleans stations I will need a lot larger investment in additional filters, etc.

Is that a correct?

[GroundUrMast]

...I can get a great antenna upgrade that will rock for my immediate area...

Yes

...If I want to pick up the New Orleans stations I will need a lot larger investment in additional filters, etc.

And be prepared for mixed results and failure.

[Dave Loudin]

For your education, click on one of the NO stations in the table of your TVFool report. You will see that you are beyond the horizon for these stations, so you are relying on signals that have been scattered twice by ground reflections or are unusually bent back to earth by tropospheric propagation events. That's why GUM is telling you that no matter what you do, reliability will be a huge problem.

[Fealthas]

For your education, click on one of the NO stations in the table of your TVFool report. You will see that you are beyond the horizon for these stations, so you are relying on signals that have been scattered twice by ground reflections or are unusually bent back to earth by tropospheric propagation events. That's why GUM is telling you that no matter what you do, reliability will be a huge problem.

Great information from both of you. Thanks!!!

I got a message back from Wineguard, and they are suggesting the FreeVision FV-HD30 antenna. If I am going to throw out the concept of grabbing stations from New Orleans, would this be a good choice?

[GroundUrMast]

The FV-HD30 would be adequate.

Dave's recommendation offers a bit more signal, but also better rejection of multipath interference. I don't consider the HD7964P overkill. If you plan to split the signal to multiple sets, now or later, go with the HD7964P.

[Fealthas]

The FV-HD30 would be adequate.

Dave's recommendation offers a bit more signal, but also better rejection of multipath interference. I don't consider the HD7964P overkill. If you plan to split the signal to multiple sets, now or later, go with the HD7964P.

Based upon the feedback and assistance I received, I have ordered the Winegard HD 7694p. It should arrive tomorrow, and I will let everyone know how it goes.

Thanks again for all of your prompt and pertinent information and suggestions.

[Fealthas]

Antenna arrived today. Easy to lock the elements into place. One little issue with the connectors inside the cartridge housing. One of them were bent at a 90 degree angle. Carefully straightened the bent connector. Pointed to where I think WSW is from my house. (No I stupidly do NOT have a compass.) All major networks coming in clear. TiVo signal strength has them all showing green in the 72-85 signal strength range.

I am looking for a good but simple explanation for how to properly ground the antenna if anyone has one to share.

[GroundUrMast]

http://forum.tvfool.com/showthread.php?t=901

I think of the mast ground as step one, the coax ground as step two.

Ideally, the mast ground would connect to the ground rod that is closest to the electrical service.

Ideally, locate the coax ground block close to the same ground rod that is closest to the electrical service.


(You can use the Tivo box signal meter to fine tune your aim.)

[John Candle]

Homedepot and Lowes have all manner of ground wire and clamps. and coax grounding block.